Timeline Planning: World of futures past

[pattontank12]

So what is this?: Well like the title suggests this is initial planning faze for a timeline I've had in the back of my head for nearly a year now.

What's it about?: The main theme is about alternate technological development and how the earlier development of certain technologies would effect society. Both for the better, such as earlier breakthroughs in medicine and the worse, with the colonial powers having a bigger technological advantage.

Alongside various periods mirror to one degree or another both how they viewed the future in OTL and the retro future punk interpretations of modern day. Though most of the technology will be more or possible with RL physics and material sciences. Having been spawned from an old AHC about an actual wild-wild-west.

(So don't expect any sentient steampunk robots firing nuclear eye beams at a space kaiju.... as cool as that would be! )

What can we expect?: Well this timeline will lean a bit more towards the Rule Of Cool, with steampunk biker outlaws in the Twilight of the Old West. For a general comparison where what-madness is this? timeline is a surrealist dystopia with heavy Lovecraftian undertones. This timeline will lean more towards retrofuturism and Two Fisted Tales, at first. Before it gradually moves to more more modern tone as the decades pass in universe. (Though expect plenty nods to the crazier events in history [looking at you Emu War) and references of everything from Frankenstein to Ghost in the Shell)

Expect the world going from this.

Spoiler: 1880's

To this

Spoiler: 1980's

 

[Aghasverov]

I'm intrigued.... go on....

 

[Ephraim Ben Raphael]

Subscribed.

 

[Whiteshore]

Count me in. As for the ideologies of this world, maybe this thread could provide a good idea on what ideologies we could insert:

A Guide, Resource, and Repository of Could-have-been Ideologies for your Alternate History

A side project I’ve been thinking up, this will be a repository of brief descriptions of ideologies that did exist historically but never really got a big attempt at implementation, unlike the giants of our world like Communism or Democracy. I will also include my personal advice as to how to...

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[pattontank12]

Count me in. As for the ideologies of this world, maybe this thread could provide a good idea on what ideologies we could insert:

A Guide, Resource, and Repository of Could-have-been Ideologies for your Alternate History

A side project I’ve been thinking up, this will be a repository of brief descriptions of ideologies that did exist historically but never really got a big attempt at implementation, unlike the giants of our world like Communism or Democracy. I will also include my personal advice as to how to...

www.alternatehistory.com

Thanks. Admittedly I have been speculating what Kitten of alternate ideologies might emerge. Right now I'm kinda leaning towards a Technocratic-Futurist ideology coming into prominence. Though I'm no great political thinker.

 

[Whiteshore]

Thanks. Admittedly I have been speculating what Kitten of alternate ideologies might emerge. Right now I'm kinda leaning towards a Technocratic-Futurist ideology coming into prominence. Though I'm no great political thinker.

For Russia, I am thinking of the Russians here being staunch Eurasianists.

 

[pattontank12]

For Russia, I am thinking of the Russians here being staunch Eurasianists.

That's a definite possibility. I have thought about the Trans Siberian railway getting built several decades earlier here. Along with Russia and the US not only remaining on friendly terms but also eventually allies.

Speaking of the US I've been speculating about the possibility of a "city of tomorrow out west." Mixing together the World's Columbian Exposition with both Metropolis and EPCOT.

 

[pattontank12]

The Steampunk genre first appearing in William Gibson's The Difference Engine in 1990, as a subset of the cyberpunk genre. Where more modern issues and technological innovations are typically applied to the time period of the 19th century. Usually being centered around Victorian England and the British Empire or occasionally with the CattlePunk subgenre the Wild West. Though in retrospect the science fiction novels of the period, such as those by HG Wells and Jules Verne can be considered steampunk. Alongside the likes of the

In general steampunk can range from airships and Steam wagon's being common place in Victorian London. To the British Empire launching a full scale invasion of Mars with steampunk nuclear powered starships. Fighting War of the Worlds Martians with giant steam powered mech's with Tesla-esque lighting guns. [1]

Now the question is what butterflies would be necessary to ensure that the later half of the 19th century at least, is as steampunk as possible. Without it going full on ASB and keeping the technology at least plausible. I said the later half since it would take time for whatever Point of Divergence is responsible to take full form and it would take time for various technologies to fully develop.

Also we got to remember what games like Civilization and popular media would have you believe. Technology DOES NOT advance in straight pre determined levels of development. Many innovations were possible decades even centuries before they were actually invented and some discoveries were by accident. Afterall tribes in Africa were able to skip from from the stone age directly to the Iron Age. While in the New World the Aztecs a people who were still heavily stone Age and with no pack animal, were able to build one of the most sophisticated cities on Earth. To the point that the Spanish Conquistadors, a people with gunpowder weaponry, advanced metallurgy and trans oceanic ships were in awe of it when they first laid eyes on it. Same for the Inca who were able to build a sprawling empire, spanning the western coast of South America with a sophisticated road network and bureaucracy.

Some possible pieces of Steampunk technology that are actually possible.

1. Steam Cars: The first drivable Steam car was actually built in late 18th century France by the inventor Nicolas Joseph_Cugnot. Though sadly it didn't really go anywhere with the outbreak of the French Revolution. Though they wouldn't become popular until the start of 20th century with the development of the Steam wagon. Even after the rise of the Internal Combustion Engine you still saw the steam car being manufactured by the likes Doble. Some of who's designs proved surprisingly sophisticated. There was even a renewed interest in 1968 with several prototype cars.
2. Airships: A no brainer for any steampunk setting, with the 19th century having been fascinated by lighter than air flight. A number of airship designs were drawn up (some more practical than others) in this time period. One of the more noticeable of which were those by the American Inventor rufus-porter and his proposed idea for an internal frame made from spruce. Interestingly enough the Schütte-Lanze_airships of Imperial Germany did use plywood frames over aluminum alloys. Which would be cheaper with O TL 19th century metallurgy.
3. Mechanical Computers: The first mechanism computer was actually built in the form of the Antikythera mechanism. While in the Victorian Era the British Mathematician Charles Babbage did construct both the Difference & Analytical Engine's, though sadly neither were completed. You could even theoretically have some type of proto internet or intranet with the use of telegraph networks.
4. Radio: While Radio wasn't invented till near the end of the 19th century. The idea of wireless communications was experimented with long before then. With Crystal radio's being relatively easy to manufacture.
5. Steam Planes: While we're all familiar with the internal combustion airplanes there were a number of attempted steam planes. With even the inventor of the machine gun Hiram Stevens Maxim coming up with his own design. Though the most successful design was actually from the 1930's. With the construction of the Besler Steam Plane using technology from the Doble steam car company.

[1] Awesome but EXTREMELY ASB

 

[pattontank12]

Just a few things I plan to reference, pay homage too or do a Shout Out of.

Steampunk Era: (1800-1900's)

• The Difference Engine
• Peshawar Lancer's
• Sherlock Holmes
• Frankenstein
• Jules Verne
• H.G Wells
• Dishonored Video Games
• Steamboy Anime
• Civilization: Empire of Smokey Skies dlc
• Girl Genius webcomic

Wild West Era: (1850's to 1900's)

1. The Wild Wild West TV series
2. Legend 1996 TV series
3. The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. TV series
4. Red Dead Redemption video games
5. The Dollar Trilogy
6. Bioshock Infinite
7. Cowboys & Aliens
8. Frank Reade Dime Novels
9. World Columbian Exposition

Dieselpunk Era: (1900's to 1930's)

• Indiana Jones
• Crimson Skies Video & tabletop game
• Metropolis
• Scott Westerfield's Leviathan Series
• Wolfenstein
• Dark City Movie
• Dust Tabletop Game
• Doc Savage
• Bioshock
• Cthulhu Mythos
• Talespin Cartoon
• Sin City
• The Shadow
• The Hudsucker Proxy Movie

Atompunk Era (1930's-50's)

• Fallout
• Stubbs the Zombie Video Game
• Destroy All Humans Video Game
• Blue Book Files TV series
• Marvel's Agent Carter TV series

Space Age: (1950's to 70's)

• Alien
• 2001 a Space Time Odyssey
• Ad Astra Movie
• For All Mankind TV series
• The Martian
• Stephen Baxter's Voyage
• Cowboy Bebop

Cyberpunk Age: (1970's to 2000's)
Note: there'll probably be some overlap with Biopunk

• Ghost in the Shell
• Cyberpunk 2020 & 2077
• Terminator
• Total Recall
• Blade Runner
• Robocop
• Dues Ex
• System Shock

If anyone has any suggestions on what should be included let me know.

 

[McPlecostomus]

Just a few things I plan to reference, pay homage too or do a Shout Out of.

Steampunk Era: (1800-1900's)

• The Difference Engine
• Peshawar Lancer's
• Sherlock Holmes
• Frankenstein
• Jules Verne
• H.G Wells
• Dishonored Video Games
• Steamboy Anime
• Civilization: Empire of Smokey Skies dlc
• Girl Genius webcomic

Wild West Era: (1850's to 1900's)

1. The Wild Wild West TV series
2. Legend 1996 TV series
3. The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. TV series
4. Red Dead Redemption video games
5. The Dollar Trilogy
6. Bioshock Infinite
7. Cowboys & Aliens
8. Frank Reade Dime Novels
9. World Columbian Exposition

Dieselpunk Era: (1900's to 1930's)

• Indiana Jones
• Crimson Skies Video & tabletop game
• Metropolis
• Scott Westerfield's Leviathan Series
• Wolfenstein
• Dark City Movie
• Dust Tabletop Game
• Doc Savage
• Bioshock
• Cthulhu Mythos
• Talespin Cartoon
• Sin City
• The Shadow
• The Hudsucker Proxy Movie

Atompunk Era (1930's-50's)

• Fallout
• Stubbs the Zombie Video Game
• Destroy All Humans Video Game
• Blue Book Files TV series
• Marvel's Agent Carter TV series

Space Age: (1950's to 70's)

• Alien
• 2001 a Space Time Odyssey
• Ad Astra Movie
• For All Mankind TV series
• The Martian
• Stephen Baxter's Voyage
• Cowboy Bebop

Cyberpunk Age: (1970's to 2000's)
Note: there'll probably be some overlap with Biopunk

• Ghost in the Shell
• Cyberpunk 2020 & 2077
• Terminator
• Total Recall
• Blade Runner
• Robocop
• Dues Ex
• System Shock

If anyone has any suggestions on what should be included let me know.

There's the dieselpunk equivalent of the Wild Wild West movie: Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. I say equivalent because it's a terribly-written, cheesy story yet one that possesses visuals that perfectly capture its -punk genre.
And Sky Captain's visuals were heavily inspired by the Fleischer Superman cartoons from the early 1940s (which I think are worth checking out too).

Also, I'm always super happy to see Doble and Besler steam technology getting recognised, no matter whereabouts on the internet. To me, flash steamers represent a sort of elegant post-steampunk concept: a potential world where steam power goes through just as much evolution as internal combustion has since the 1800s, and steel, coal and trough water has to give way to a new generation of nickel-chrome, kerosene, and oil-infused feedwater.

 

[pattontank12]

There's the dieselpunk equivalent of the Wild Wild West movie: Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. I say equivalent because it's a terribly-written, cheesy story yet one that possesses visuals that perfectly capture its -punk genre.
And Sky Captain's visuals were heavily inspired by the Fleischer Superman cartoons from the early 1940s (which I think are worth checking out too).

That's actually one of my favorite movies. Was tempted to add it and the Rocketeer into the list but I wasn't sure if they'd fit.

I've never scene the Wild Wild West movie and I don't plan too.

Also, I'm always super happy to see Doble and Besler steam technology getting recognised, no matter whereabouts on the internet. To me, flash steamers represent a sort of elegant post-steampunk concept: a potential world where steam power goes through just as much evolution as internal combustion has since the 1800s, and steel, coal and trough water has to give way to a new generation of nickel-chrome, kerosene, and oil-infused feedwater.

I've been thinking on the possibility of Doble styled steam engines being developed a good ten to twenty years before the invention of the Internal Combustion Engine. With steam cars managing to survive for several more decades alongside internal combustion cars. Thanks to the technology being more widely spread.

 

[pattontank12]

Thinking about technologies from OTL its kinda surprising Barbed Wire wasn't invented earlier. So with that in mind it could be a funny that in reverse of the general trend of this timeline. It's invention is actually delayed by roughly twenty years in the 1890's. Which would have some interesting repercussions on the Wild West.

I'm actually thinking that age of the Wild West here would come to end with the outbreak of this timeline's Great War. Which would be similar to OTL's World War 1 mixed in with the Spanish-American, Russo-Japanese and Anglo-Boar Wars. Only with the technology being closer to a steampunk[1] 1930's. Mixed with in infantry weapons that wouldn't be too far of place in OTL's late ww2 & Korea.

Also on some alternate technological developments. I'm curious how plausible it would be for vacuum channel transistors to be developed before or around the same time as normal transistors. Since while there larger then normal transistors they are also more powerful. Which would be a good excuse to have computers that would look similar to their counterparts from comparative era's in OTL, while also being more powerful.


[1] In that steam planes, cars, tanks and airships being used alongside those using internal combustion engines.

 

[pattontank12]

Meanwhile in British Oregon 1906.

What would be some technologies that we consider "dieselpunk?" That while they didn't take off in OTL are technically possible?

 

[McPlecostomus]

Meanwhile in British Oregon 1906.

What would be some technologies that we consider "dieselpunk?" That while they didn't take off in OTL are technically possible?

I would definitely say gyroplanes - speed of aeroplanes with almost the same VTOL capabilities of helicopters. They would've been fantastic for short-moderate distance mail delivery and urban passenger services. Also in my post-steampunk worldbuilding project where lightweight flash steam technology 100% won out over internal combustion, the gyroplanes can simply divert steam to the usually free spinning main rotor for take-off, then back to the main prop engines for cruising. No having to fiddle with ear-piercing tip jets like the Rotodyne did.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/SFF_002-1055526_Fairey_Rotodyne.jpg

Also, monowheels. I will say that they are not practical in any way, but they certainly have cool factor and IRL have been popular with daredevils and bikers. Their main problem is that they have no inherent method of steering, instead relying on the driver to physically lean side-to-side to act as a counterweight. This can be fixed by adding either adding a sidecar, or a secondary wheel (perhaps one parallel and equally-sized to the main one that can allow the thing to turn like a tank, or a smaller one connected behind or in front of the monowheel).

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wolfenstein/images/b/b8/Monocycle-Artwork.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190622204945

Only other one I can think of right now is the novachord - an electromechanical synth keyboard capable of simulating an entire band's worth of instruments. You wanna play and record electronic music in the 1930s? Hook up a novachord to a dozen tape reels to record several layers of playthroughs and you could have period electro-swing! The 1947 song 'Novachord Boogie' was entirely played on a novachord (I'm pretty sure anyway).

 

[pattontank12]

I would definitely say gyroplanes - speed of aeroplanes with almost the same VTOL capabilities of helicopters. They would've been fantastic for short-moderate distance mail delivery and urban passenger services. Also in my post-steampunk worldbuilding project where lightweight flash steam technology 100% won out over internal combustion, the gyroplanes can simply divert steam to the usually free spinning main rotor for take-off, then back to the main prop engines for cruising. No having to fiddle with ear-piercing tip jets like the Rotodyne did.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/SFF_002-1055526_Fairey_Rotodyne.jpg

Also, monowheels. I will say that they are not practical in any way, but they certainly have cool factor and IRL have been popular with daredevils and bikers. Their main problem is that they have no inherent method of steering, instead relying on the driver to physically lean side-to-side to act as a counterweight. This can be fixed by adding either adding a sidecar, or a secondary wheel (perhaps one parallel and equally-sized to the main one that can allow the thing to turn like a tank, or a smaller one connected behind or in front of the monowheel).

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wolfenstein/images/b/b8/Monocycle-Artwork.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190622204945

Only other one I can think of right now is the novachord - an electromechanical synth keyboard capable of simulating an entire band's worth of instruments. You wanna play and record electronic music in the 1930s? Hook up a novachord to a dozen tape reels to record several layers of playthroughs and you could have period electro-swing! The 1947 song 'Novachord Boogie' was entirely played on a novachord (I'm pretty sure anyway).

These are all great suggestions! It would be interesting where the steam engine remained competitive with the internal combustion engine well into the late twentieth century. I do remember there was a brief flirt with cars powered by steam turbines during the 70s. In hopes of combating with energy crisis of the time.


As for dieselpunk technology there is the Italian mechanical horse that was invented in 1933, as a means to train children. That was reported to easily traverse both roads and open fields.

There was also the Rigsby coil gun invented in the 1930's by the Texan Virgil Rigsby. That fired projectiles via a magnetic coil.

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/magnetic-rail-gun-in-1934/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun

 

[pattontank12]

So quick question: Should I post an outline of what I was thinking for North America and the possible routes it can take?

Also how does everyone feel about the following?

1. Outlaw cowboy's on steampunk motorcycles?
2. Sky pirates?
3. Carrier airships
4. Nuclear Trains?
5. Fallout/50's Styled fascist dictatorship
6. Lunar Base/Lab & Manned Mars Landing by the 70's
7. Evil Megacorps
8. Congo Sea project &/or Green Sahara (with disastrous results?

 

[Twiggierjet]

IDK about the congo sea project and America turning into an outright dictatorship, but the rest sound great.

 

[245]

I had an idea about computers that might fit in this world that I suggested in one of your worldbuilding threads:

Kinda, imagine if the matrix was made by Analytical engines that are at the level of a cyberpunk supercomputer while still technically being called an analytical engine while being powered and oriented around a Fallout style nuclear reactor.

 

[pattontank12]

IDK about the congo sea project and America turning into an outright dictatorship, but the rest sound great.

Yeah I'm not crazy about it either.

Was thinking about the United States becoming divided with the remainder of the US becoming an ally of Imperial Russia. After the British ended up officially supporting the Confederacy in an alternate Civil War. That was halfway between its OTL self & WW1. Mainly as an excuse to have a more WILD Wild West and some frontier espionage.

I had an idea about computers that might fit in this world that I suggested in one of your worldbuilding threads:

I'm not to sure about that. I do want to keep the technology more or less plausible. Though I am a fan of alternate terminology for technology.

 

[pattontank12]

A good idea on what soldiers could could look like during a rough WW2 analogue or near the end of the Dieselpunk "period".