So, we have different opinions.
- So let's start with your first sentence : "you cannot compare..." they were all great politicians, each in its own merit. It is not like they were perfect human beings, but you seem one to judge the events of yesterday with they eyes today, especially in a reductive way and it seems your sore point is Almirante for some reason.
- Regarding Moro, is a problem that hypothesize about him being a Conservative in TL191 ?
- Regarding Giorgio Almirante, he made is position clear regarding what he wrote in the "La difesa della razza" : I wish I had English sub on this video but so far haven't found any. Regarding the fact that he threatened people with death who didn't join the army of Italian Social Republic , you treat him like he was particulary unique in all of history. Which he clearly wasn't. And yes, he , together with the other 3 I mentioned , was a nice leader. Was he a saint ? No. Was Bettino Craxi one? Also no. As a far leftist, I think were objectively good politicians.
- Using the word fascist after the 28th of April 1945 is futile, it has the same value nowadays of Conservatives calling someone "commie" after 25 December 1991 : useless.
- You forget that Giorgio Almirante and Berlinguer did talk in order to collaborate and to avoid bloodshed , it was an hidden fact until much later. GA also went to the burial chamber of EB, a deed that surprised everyone. There is also a book discussing it which I read , in Italian only so far, https://www.amazon.it/gesto-Almiran...erlinguer&qid=1593793174&sr=8-1&tag=slhyin-21 that discusses the relation between the two.
- Considering that we just found out many in our judiciary were politically motivated to take out two of our most political figures (honestly I would rather vote for the devil than them) , I am very doubtful on how those events were narrated to us and have my own view on the matter . Is that being anti-historical? No, also I never said leftist judges. But considering that judge Palamara and his clique were found out to have done sentences for political favors, the "conspiracy theory " is no longer a valid excuse to defend one of the reviled institutions in Italy (you forgot to mention that some cases here can take decades to be "over") . And said "conspiracy" wasn't exclusive of Berlusconi.
- About the Moro escort : tell me, how is that possible that an insurgent group was able to take out one of the most well known VIPs ?
- Limit myself ? Yeah, fat chance of that happening. I am not denying a genocide or similiar , I am not partaking into historical revisionism of the sort.
Yep, I agree: we have different opinions, the only difference is that mine ones are History, yours ones are partisan talking points.
First, why you cannot compare? Well, because a neo-fascist who made repeatedly supportive comments in favor of Black (Neo-Fascist) Terrorism because this remembered him the joyful crimes of his past when he was a loyal and zealous collaborator of Hitler and Mussolini and a ruthless politician who never did a good reform in his life and buildt the greatest corruption machine of Italian history betraying his party's ideals to ally himself with Andreotti and his Mafia friends (I don't know you, but I see an incoherence calling "great leader" a man who ally himself with an other me that you defined a Mafia-man...) were not really in the "Great Leader" category, but they can fill the criminal one.
Oh, and I'm not speaking reductively about Almirante: he was never at goverment, so the only things we can judge are his post-war rhetoric and his past. Maybe you heard about that: Italian towns burned to ground, people executed, Jews packed on trains,... It's called Second World War and yes, Almirante was on the bad side: he was one of more zealous journalist of "La Difesa della Razza", he wrote the first article, not the second, not the third, the first! He collaborated to the Racial Laws and then, when the country was invaded by Nazis he choose the Hitler's side and became one of heads of the Culture/Propaganda Minister of Mussolini's puppet regime.
The video is laughable: a (probably Israelian) journalist asks what is his opinion about Israel, considering his past; he says that he is pro-Israel because, in all his past, the only thing that he doesn't disown but maybe reconside is his position when he was a journalist. No a word about collaboration, no a word about his activities as loyal agent of Mussolini, no a word about Holocaust, he never say the word racism or anti-semitic. So the only thing we get is that now he is pro-Israel: credibility under zero, no doubts.
Was he a nice leader? Oh yeah, if you are a Fascist or like castor oil surely you can get along with him.
"Using the word fascist after 1945 is useless": this is an other typical talking point of Italian (far) right trying to make people forget about their past crimes or to hidden their openly far-right positions. But speaking about Almirante it was not me to introduce the word "Fascism" about him but Almirante himself: he was always proud of his Fascist past and often he boasts his Fascist positions and credentials, especially during his rallies full of Roman salutes and Fascist songs. So I can agree to not use the word Fascism after 1945 only if the Fascists accept their defeat and renounce to Fascist policies and to call themselves in this way. But you know many people love living in the past...
I didn't forget the Padellaro's book, I read about it and I know about the "secret channel", a sort of Red Line, between Almirante and Berlinguer to avoid a full escalation. But this is the minimum and doesn't cancel the Fascist past and Neo-Fascist present of Almirante and his links with Black Terrorism, coup plotters (especially Junio Valerio Borghese) and P2 Masonic Lodge conspiracy. His gesture at Berlinguer funeral was touching but all his life was devoted to destroying all what Berlinguer believed: Freedom, Democracy, Socialism, National Unity, the same Republic's existence. Almirante was a Fascist because he wanted to be one and the Fascism is enemy of everyone in every times, in every countries. Plain and simple.
Man, you need really to read the papers: never and I say never an investigation has found that some judges jailed someone for political reasons, never. There we are some cases of corruption and some of incompetence, of course, as in all countries, but the idea that a secret cabal of judges suddenly decided to take down Craxi (after more then ten years in goverment, they are really slow, you are right!) and Berlusconi (I imagine they are the two figures you mentioned. No one other started crying about judges conspiracies after they were caught with their bribes) is a total partisan falsity, spreaded by rightwing media. But, please, I'm sure you have some prove about that, I don't know, maybe papers, witnesses, sentences, even a graffito in a toilet who says the judges did that. Oh right, there is nothing but rhetoric, nevermind.
You need to read the Palamara Case papers too: yep, this is a big corruption scandals about judges but the bribes were to get nomination for some roles, as prosecutors or supreme judges, not to influence the sentence, so this is not the case (and I can't find a good reason to link a corrupt judge in 2020 to Craxi indicted in 1992 and I'm creative, believe me).
The "judges conspiracy" is not an excuse or a my invention, but a rallying cry created by the right to defend themselves by numerous corruption, Mafia-linking, prostitution scandals. Of course, the left has scandals too but they didn't scream about conspiracies everything.
Yep, the trials are slow in Italy, you know, after decades of defunding and cuts we're lucky to have even the trials, but again you are in fault: every polls show that the most reviled group in Italy is not the judicial system but the political class. Can you found why? Yes, corruption...
About the Moro kidnapping, I don't know: how was that possible a stupid single guy called John Hinckley was able to arrive to few steps from Reagan and almost kill him 19 years after JFK? And how was that possible the same year a Turkish terrorist almost take down the Pope in Saint Peter's Square? These things simply happen: they planned accurately that, found a weak point, blocked the street, made a surprise attack, killed the escort and kidnapped Moro. If you want to speak about the dark points of Moro deaths there are many (for example the Interior Ministry refused an armored car for Moro few days before, for example the police had a whistle about terrorist shelter but they didn't follow it) but about escort really I can't see anything of what are you saying.
PS when I asked you to limit yourself I intended to limit your comments on the topic, as speaking of Current Politics or about your personal opinion about Almirante are matter of Chat, not of the AH Forum. I never intended suggesting you were using violent words or something like that.
