TL-191: After the End

David bar Elias

MaxGerke01 said:
Have black people and families who survived the Destruction received reparations or financial restitution from the government of Texas the way Israel did from West Germany and Japanese Americans did from the US government OTL.It seems like the least Texas could do considering the horrors done on its soil and by some of its citizens at the time...
Also has the Ottoman Empire resisted the classification of what it did to the Armenians during the GW as a genocide and has the USA,Germany and other allies gone along with that or defied them-hopefully ?
Click to expand...

By 2021, the Republic of Texas has offered compensation in relation to the Destruction, but only to those survivors either originally from Texas or who survived the Destruction within Texas itself. It’s an arrangement that did met with no small amount of controversy in the USA, Haiti, and Texas.

-
The Ottoman Empire never acknowledged, much less apologized for the Armenian Genocide.

Unfortunately, the US government did not officially recognize the Armenian Genocide until the last year of the Reynolds administration, in 1988.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
David bar Elias said:
It’s an arrangement that did met with no small amount of controversy in the USA, Haiti, and Texas.

-
Click to expand...
Why was this particularly controversial with some in the USA and Haiti ? In Texas some seeing it as controversial its more understandable even though still completely unacceptable.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
So we know Coolidge,Hoover,Truman,Dewey,Eisenhower,Nixon,Carter and Reagan all existed ittl at one time or another although not always as President or VP. Barack Obama and Colin Powell did not exist But what about JFK,LBJ, RFK,Gerald Ford.George HW Bush,Bill Clinton,George W Bush,Hillary Clinton , Donald Trump and Joe Biden ?
Also what about J .Edgar Hoover and Jesse Jackson.
 
Last edited:

David bar Elias

MaxGerke01 said:
So we know Coolidge,Hoover,Truman,Dewey,Eisenhower,Nixon,Carter and Reagan all existed ittl at one time or another although not always as President or VP. Barack Obama and Colin Powell did not exist But what about JFK,LBJ, RFK,Gerald Ford.George HW Bush,Bill Clinton,George W Bush,Hillary Clinton , Donald Trump and Joe Biden ?
Also what about J .Edgar Hoover and Jesse Jackson.
Click to expand...
The analogue to Gerald Ford in TTL was Rudolph Ford, and he was born on a slightly different date. Rudolph Ford served in the US Navy during the SGW. After the war, he successfully applied for a masters program at the University of Chicago in economics. Ford went on to eventually earn a doctorate in economics. He enjoyed an academic career at several universities in the Midwest as an economics professor, before gaining a tenured position at the University of Michigan. He retired from teaching in 1992.

-
Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, George HW Bush, George W Bush, Jesse Jackson, and Donald Trump don’t exist in TTL.

Here is what I have already written up for the analogues in TTL to the Kennedy family, the Bush family, Trump family, Lyndon Johnson, and J Edgar Hoover:

John Edgar Hoover’s family did not stay in Washington, DC, given the proximity of the CSA. An analogue to Hoover was born, at a slightly different date, in Philadelphia. Hoover’s ATL counterpart was drafted during the FGW, served in the US Amy Quartermaster Corps, and then, after the war, went to work as a clerk for a shipping company. Hoover’s analogue never served in a law enforcement capacity.

-
In spite of the ambitions of Joseph Kennedy Sr., none of his descendants had significant success in local Massachusetts politics, although several members of the Kennedy family did make into the state legislature during the late Twentieth Century. Politics in Massachusetts, well into the 1980s, was dominated by the powerful Socialist Party machine based in Boston; the Kennedys, a family of Democratic Party loyalists, did not prosper politically in this climate, or later in the 1980s, when a revitalized Republican Party successfully challenged the Boston Machine.

In 2021, the Kennedy family is still mostly centered in Massachusetts, and can be found working in several prominent local companies; several members of the family also found a place in academia, with one member of the family currently on the faculty of Harvard. However, no members of the current generation of Kennedys have an interest in a political career.

-
Lyndon Johnson’s participation in Texas politics was cut short by the Featherston dictatorship. Although not ultimately arrested by the regime, he found himself on a blacklist preventing him from gaining any meaningful employment with either the state government or major local companies. He was still in Texas when the state declared independence. After the war, he ran a successful import-export business.

Johnson was genuinely horrified when he learned of the Destruction, and of the atrocities committed on Texas soil. Alongside his day job, Johnson spent what time he could investigating just what had happened in his state during the Featherston years. Johnson did not enjoy a lot of support from the Texas authorities in this endeavor, given that his documentation directly contradicted the self-serving narrative that emerged in the state that claimed Texas was primarily a victim of Featherston. Johnson, aside from documenting Freedom Party atrocities in Texas, also documented evidence of extensive local collaboration with the Featherston regime.

Johnson also served as a local contact for Cassius Madison’s Remembrance Center, although this would not be publicized until well after Johnson’s death. Before he died, Johnson entrusted all of his private research on the Destruction and local collaboration in Texas with the Freedom Party to the Remembrance Center. Johnson’s research later became the basis for Lone Star State, a three volume history of the Destruction and Freedom Party rule in Texas published (jointly) by the Remembrance Center and Yale University in 1979. This caused a diplomatic incident between the US and Texas, as the Republic of Texas attempted to stop the publication of this history. Evidence provided by Johnson’s research would also later result in several local Freedom Party war criminals from Texas being handed over to US authorities.

In 2021, Johnson has a memorial plaque of his own on the Remembrance Center’s Walk of Friendship, located in the extensive Memorial Garden surrounding the center itself.

-
In 2021, the analogue to the Bush family is primarily concentrated in the Northeast, with most members of the family living either in Connecticut or New York. It’s a wealthy family, but with no members currently interested in a political career.

-
As of TTL’s 2021, the analogue to our world’s Trump family mostly lives in the New York City area. It’s not a family that’s particularly wealthy; among other butterflies, Fred Trump never wound up building up a successful real estate business. The Trump family in TTL leads, for the most part, a normal middle class existence in 2021. As previously mentioned, Donald Trump does not exist in TTL.
 

David bar Elias

MaxGerke01 said:
Why was this particularly controversial with some in the USA and Haiti ? In Texas some seeing it as controversial its more understandable even though still completely unacceptable.
Click to expand...

In the US and Haiti, the controversy was over the question of how culpable the Republic of Texas should have been, in terms of reparations, for crimes committed elsewhere in the forged CSA under the Featherston regime.
 

David bar Elias

GeorgeUK said:
What happened to the following people:
Anthony Eden
Arthur Harris
Samuel Longstreet
John Nance Garner
Harold MacMillan
Hugh Gaitskell
Anthony Benn
John Redmond
W. T. Cosgrave
Georges Remi (aka Herge)
Charles De Gaulle
P. G. Wodehouse
A. A. Milne
Michael Flanders and Donald Swann
Click to expand...

I am going to divide my reply into several parts. This part of my reply includes the write-up that I already did for Charles de Gaulle.

-
PG Wodehouse, as in our world, had a successful career as a writer. Unlike in our world, Wodehouse never spent any extended time living in the United States, which was perhaps to be expected in a world where the USA and UK were enemies during the first half of the Twentieth Century. Wodehouse, as luck would have it, was stranded in the CSA during the First Great War (which interrupted an intended short visit to) and was unable to return to the United Kingdom until 1917.

Another divergence from OTL is that Wodehouse never wrote the Jeeves series, although as in our world, he was well regarded for his works of humor.

Wodehouse did not remain in the UK for long after the FGW, due to the miserable economic and social conditions of the immediate postwar years. Wodehouse briefly lived in France, but did not remain long in a country just as shattered as Britain was; he also had no desire to return to the Confederacy, having not enjoyed his experience in the wartime (and rebellion wracked) CSA. Wodehouse ultimately wound up emigrating to Australia.

Wodehouse, over time, would establish himself as one of the leading cultural doyens of the growing British expatriate community in Australia. Along with his short stories and novels, Wodehouse also became involved in the world of Australian musical theater, writing the books for several successful East End (Melbourne) productions.

As with other expatriate British writers in Australia during the 1930s-1950s (such as Alfred Hitchcock and Eric Arthur Blair), Wodehouse was well known for his satirical portraits of the British expatriate community, especially of attempts by immigrants to recreate “normal” respectable British lives in an Australian setting. In TTL, Wodehouse’s most famous work, in 2021, is the Earl of Sidcup series; in TTL, the Earl of Sidcup is far more of a Colonel Blimp-type of character, rather than a thinly veiled portrait of Oswald Mosley. The Earl of Sidcup series later inspired the successful 1955 Australian musical Sidcup, with a book by Wodehouse (for an idea of what this musical sounds like, imagine if PG Wodehouse had been the lyricist fir the works of Gilbert and Sullivan).

Wodehouse remained in Australia for the rest of his life.

-
AA Milne, as in our world, served in the British military. He was wounded on the Western Front during the FGW and was sent home before the end of the war. Milne’s experiences turned him adopting anti-war views. Milne’s son in TTL, William, was born in 1921. Milne decided, in the bleak environment of postwar Britain, to leave with his family. In 1924, Milne and his family left for New Zealand. Milne eventually found steady work as an English instructor in Wellington. He never wrote the Winnie-the-Pooh stories.

-
Anthony Benn doesn’t exist in TTL.

-
Charles DeGaulle, a survivor of the FGW, became an advocate of modernizing the French military, both in terms of technology and tactics. This early advocacy helped to advance his career under the monarchial fascist regime that came to power in the country during the interwar years. Although DeGaulle had mixed feelings, at best, on the new regime, he accepted it as necessary for France to successfully overcome Germany. DeGaulle served, in a position of command, on the Western Front during the SGW, and also served in a position of command during the Entente’s retreat from Germany.

DeGaulle was personally shattered by the German superbombing of Paris, the loss of the SGW, and the terms of the Treaty of Aachen, which would result in the German military occupation of northwestern France for two decades. DeGaulle would subsequently leave France; unlike other French emigrants from the postwar years (most of whom preferred Quebec), DeGaulle would accept a Brazilian offer to serve as a consultant for the Empire of Brazil’s own postwar modernization of its armored forces. DeGaulle would spend the rest of his life in Brazilian exile.
 

marktaha

Banned
David bar Elias said:
I am going to divide my reply into several parts. This part of my reply includes the write-up that I already did for Charles de Gaulle.

-
PG Wodehouse, as in our world, had a successful career as a writer. Unlike in our world, Wodehouse never spent any extended time living in the United States, which was perhaps to be expected in a world where the USA and UK were enemies during the first half of the Twentieth Century. Wodehouse, as luck would have it, was stranded in the CSA during the First Great War (which interrupted an intended short visit to) and was unable to return to the United Kingdom until 1917.

Another divergence from OTL is that Wodehouse never wrote the Jeeves series, although as in our world, he was well regarded for his works of humor.

Wodehouse did not remain in the UK for long after the FGW, due to the miserable economic and social conditions of the immediate postwar years. Wodehouse briefly lived in France, but did not remain long in a country just as shattered as Britain was; he also had no desire to return to the Confederacy, having not enjoyed his experience in the wartime (and rebellion wracked) CSA. Wodehouse ultimately wound up emigrating to Australia.

Wodehouse, over time, would establish himself as one of the leading cultural doyens of the growing British expatriate community in Australia. Along with his short stories and novels, Wodehouse also became involved in the world of Australian musical theater, writing the books for several successful East End (Melbourne) productions.

As with other expatriate British writers in Australia during the 1930s-1950s (such as Alfred Hitchcock and Eric Arthur Blair), Wodehouse was well known for his satirical portraits of the British expatriate community, especially of attempts by immigrants to recreate “normal” respectable British lives in an Australian setting. In TTL, Wodehouse’s most famous work, in 2021, is the Earl of Sidcup series; in TTL, the Earl of Sidcup is far more of a Colonel Blimp-type of character, rather than a thinly veiled portrait of Oswald Mosley. The Earl of Sidcup series later inspired the successful 1955 Australian musical Sidcup, with a book by Wodehouse (for an idea of what this musical sounds like, imagine if PG Wodehouse had been the lyricist fir the works of Gilbert and Sullivan).

Wodehouse remained in Australia for the rest of his life.

-
AA Milne, as in our world, served in the British military. He was wounded on the Western Front during the FGW and was sent home before the end of the war. Milne’s experiences turned him adopting anti-war views. Milne’s son in TTL, William, was born in 1921. Milne decided, in the bleak environment of postwar Britain, to leave with his family. In 1924, Milne and his family left for New Zealand. Milne eventually found steady work as an English instructor in Wellington. He never wrote the Winnie-the-Pooh stories.

-
Anthony Benn doesn’t exist in TTL.

-
Charles DeGaulle, a survivor of the FGW, became an advocate of modernizing the French military, both in terms of technology and tactics. This early advocacy helped to advance his career under the monarchial fascist regime that came to power in the country during the interwar years. Although DeGaulle had mixed feelings, at best, on the new regime, he accepted it as necessary for France to successfully overcome Germany. DeGaulle served, in a position of command, on the Western Front during the SGW, and also served in a position of command during the Entente’s retreat from Germany.

DeGaulle was personally shattered by the German superbombing of Paris, the loss of the SGW, and the terms of the Treaty of Aachen, which would result in the German military occupation of northwestern France for two decades. DeGaulle would subsequently leave France; unlike other French emigrants from the postwar years (most of whom preferred Quebec), DeGaulle would accept a Brazilian offer to serve as a consultant for the Empire of Brazil’s own postwar modernization of its armored forces. DeGaulle would spend the rest of his life in Brazilian exile.
Click to expand...
No Christopher Robin?
 

marktaha

Banned
MaxGerke01 said:
I dont want this to be seen as a criticism of what he did ittl.It makes sense in many ways and its within his right to do it as an author who has put great work into ttl.
I just happen to think there is a better option to accomplish the same goal. Also not so much because of the potential of having a situation like the Man with the Iron Heart. Thats a possibility at least immediately afterwards and to me is much more likely to happen in this situation that it ever was in OTL Nazi Germany simply because of the amount of gun ownership in North America even back then.
What Im thinking more about again is the long game and something almost unintentional like what happened in OTL by the Union pretty much taking the South back no questions asked and no real changes made - permananetly at least. If reunion with the CSA somehow changes the national character of the USA then that is a terrible ultimate outcome of this plan.....
Click to expand...
Isn't shooting innocent hostages playing dirty? Had vision of say Chester's son being totally revolted against his father by this
 

BigAbeRangel

In your head cannon, with Russia committing atrocities against civilians during GW2 wherever they invade and occupy--most especially Jews--, do you see Actionist France doing the same thing to their Jews in Metro France, North Africa, and in occupied territories? Definitely be targeting left-wingers and other political opponents for sure. I and others have speculated on other threads that the Actionists won't outright massacre them, but be deported and transferred around for "extermination through labor"--especially once the war gets into gear. Do you see other groups such as Protestants, Roma, and Freemasons, and POWs targeted as well?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top