The New Order: Last Days of Europe Thread II

[Helaena I Targaryen]

This has made me curious, what warlords are able to peacefully unite with each other? Is there a list somewhere?

No list, but there's a general protocol:

All dems can peacefully reunite with each other.

Batov can reunify with all commies and dems, but draws the line at hard right-wing regimes (excluding despotism).

Commies can reunify with each other, up to LibSoc.

No right ideologies (fascist onwards) can peacefully reunify with each other.

 

[TheWildWestPyro]

Men doesn't negotiate, by the way.

 

[AK47Productions]

Amusing enough, Taboritsky can unify with Batov's West Siberia if you begin unification negotiations while Tabby's still Despotist. It's more of an oversight more than anything else though.

Men doesn't negotiate, by the way.

This actually reminded me on a reddit post where a user thought Men not being able to unite with anyone else due to some alternate character interpretation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TNOmod/comments/mpr1tu

 

[Dunois]

I just finished a run with Rurik and Yuriy as designed successor. It was an fun and entertaining ride and I Rurik definitely ranks pretty high on my list of unifiers candidates to build a strong Russia. The Far East was stuck in permanent war between Yagoda and Mikhail by the time I swept in in 1969. The Aryan Brotherhood unified the West and took over shattered Omsk.
The final war was my easiest one so far and won in only 5 weeks. I supposed that having 40widths fully upgraded APCs backed by helicopters, CASs and near up to date equipment helped.

Pros for Kemerovo:
- Strong military and can reach Spartan Discipline by mid-1971
- Siberian Plan and industrial advances so in a strong position to build a solid economy and industrial base. I had a whooping 67.5% extra construction speed from Sib plan alone.
- Strong economy in game (reached 12.3% GDP growth) and good mixture of social policies and economic development
- Social development advances across the board.

Cons for Kemerovo:
- Not too great on research & development. I lagged somewhat behind in terms of infantry tech, doctrines and aircraft.
- No easy way to obtain army experience other than via training exercises and manoeuvres.
- Not many buffs for education and research

Overall I would say that it would be a strong contender to take on Germany during the 1970s but not as strong as others like Tomsk, Batov's Sverdlovsk or Novosibirsk.
I haven't tried the Lydia route yet but I imagine it would lead to a stronger army.

 

[Gukpard]

So, here some minor leaks from CSS since it is about to be released

Spoiler: Cold Southern Springs

Through political manouvering it is possible to avoid the dictatorship after the military coup happened, as it was the original plan OTL. If this happens then you won't be able to elect left wingers or PTB candidates after it and the UDN will always have a advantage, and yes this also counts TNO2 since you just purged the brazilian progressive scene.

You can also go OTL

Vargas is also alive up until the end of the demo

Spoiler: Vargas

But not for long

 

[RiverDelta]

Interestingly, if Taboritsky is forced out of the country, he joins the Aryan Brotherhood.

One wonders what it would be like if Taboritsky got inserted into the AB's power struggles.

 

[chankljp]

Personally i wouldn't mind it so much if Sablin at least had that moment where he realizes he is a revisionist that Lenin would have murdered without batting an eye.
That crisis of faith would be a perfect hook for TNO2.

This is just a totally random thought that crossed my mind:

You know how one of the most recurring themes that pop-up over and over again in a LibSoc Sablin playthrough is him getting blind drunk with his comrades? The irony here is that Lenin was a prohibitionist, who saw alcohol as yet another means in which the bourgeoisie controls the proletariat. After all, people that spend their time after work drinking will not be the easiest to organize or to get out on demonstrations or go on strikes.

It would be an interesting idea to have AuthSoc Sablin quite alcohol and stop drinking at some point, in a direct contrast with LibDem Tsar Vladimir and his pills, with Sablin breaking his addiction in order to become a better Leninist.

 

[TheWildWestPyro]

On TV Tropes it's explained that it really helps if you imagine LibSoc Sablin as what communism is on paper (I prefer the term Marxism for the sake of the philosophy), and AuthSoc Sablin is communism in practice.

With the end of the AuthSoc - LibSoc divide, I'd imagine that as Sablin will be a Communist in ideology regardless of playthrough, his subideologies will be Sablinism for his more libertarian, revisionist-but-he-isn't-aware ideals, and Bukharinism for his more authoritarian, closer-to-actual-Leninism ideals.

 

[RiverDelta]

On TV Tropes it's explained that it really helps if you imagine LibSoc Sablin as what communism is on paper (I prefer the term Marxism for the sake of the philosophy), and AuthSoc Sablin is communism in practice.

With the end of the AuthSoc - LibSoc divide, I'd imagine that as Sablin will be a Communist in ideology regardless of playthrough, his subideologies will be Sablinism for his more libertarian, revisionist-but-he-isn't-aware ideals, and Bukharinism for his more authoritarian, closer-to-actual-Leninism ideals.

The thing is that Auth Sablin really does pull punches in terms of the path, in that he's basically a benevolent dictator who's repressive but nowhere near as bad as almost any other TTL communist.

So I don't even know if I'd say it's communism in practice.

 

[TheWildWestPyro]

The thing is that Auth Sablin really does pull punches in terms of the path, in that he's basically a benevolent dictator who's repressive but nowhere near as bad as almost any other TTL communist.

So I don't even know if I'd say it's communism in practice.

To be fair, you have to weigh it up against Suslov's bog-standard USSR first. Is it less repressive than the usual standard (Suslov's)?

 

[RiverDelta]

To be fair, you have to weigh it up against Suslov's bog-standard USSR first. Is it less repressive than the usual standard (Suslov's)?

I haven't played Suslov, but given that his path is compared to Brezhnev's USSR, I'd assume it is?

 

[TheWildWestPyro]

I haven't played Suslov, but given that his path is compared to Brezhnev's USSR, I'd assume it is?

Well, alright, I'll play Suslov sometime and see how things go. But Sablin is likely fairly close to Lenin in his Auth path, just there's enough of his idealism to stop him being as cold and hard as Lenin was (even in writing.)

 

[Gukpard]

I haven't played Suslov, but given that his path is compared to Brezhnev's USSR, I'd assume it is?

Suslov is pretty chill on my opinion, for most of the gameplay I was thinking "Well, this turned better than I expected"

Eventually I took vorkuta and tough he would reinstate the gulags, but he can say no

 

[RiverDelta]

Well, alright, I'll play Suslov sometime and see how things go. But Sablin is likely fairly close to Lenin in his Auth path, just there's enough of his idealism to stop him being as cold and hard as Lenin was (even in writing.)

Yeah, my point is that even AuthSoc Sablin seems written to be still kind of an idealized view of communism.

I feel like it pulls punches.

 

[Kingfish Chris]

What are the chances of Speerite Youth adopting Nazi Skinhead aesthetics? Youth dressed in "degenerate" fashion wearing leather jackets, t-shirts, jeans and boots all while flashing Swastikas and the middle finger bearing tattoos as a sort of "F you" to the Old Nazi establishment.
And to add, the reason why the punks are doing what they're doing with their punk aesthetics and destructive behavior, is they're dissatisfied of the current Nazi regime, being lead by lazy out-of-touch party leaders, who are failing to do something about the failed economy. Simply put, they are young Nazis who want to overthrow the Gerintocracy and create a "Neo-Nazism" that takes action.
For some reason, I also see the Strasserism as being popular among Student circles from Speer's Reformists.
And these Nazi Youth/Punks/Skinheads tired of Old Nazism, with their Youth ideology of "Neo-Nazism" find inspiration from other forms of unused Nazi Ideology like Strasserism (Left-Wing Nazism).
Heck these Skinheads end up acting like Mao's Red Guard.

 

[Liam Johnson of The Army]

Heck these Skinheads end up acting like Mao's Red Guard.

Doubly ironic consodering speer is often called a ‘Dengist’ by the fanbase.

 

[Jedevari]

What are the chances of Speerite Youth adopting Nazi Skinhead aesthetics? Youth dressed in "degenerate" fashion wearing leather jackets, t-shirts, jeans and boots all while flashing Swastikas and the middle finger bearing tattoos as a sort of "F you" to the Old Nazi establishment.
And to add, the reason why the punks are doing what they're doing with their punk aesthetics and destructive behavior, is they're dissatisfied of the current Nazi regime, being lead by lazy out-of-touch party leaders, who are failing to do something about the failed economy. Simply put, they are young Nazis who want to overthrow the Gerintocracy and create a "Neo-Nazism" that takes action.
For some reason, I also see the Strasserism as being popular among Student circles from Speer's Reformists.
And these Nazi Youth/Punks/Skinheads tired of Old Nazism, with their Youth ideology of "Neo-Nazism" find inspiration from other forms of unused Nazi Ideology like Strasserism (Left-Wing Nazism).
Heck these Skinheads end up acting like Mao's Red Guard.

Yeah, that's probably the most realistic outcome of the student movement, as opposed to them becoming magically democrats and marxists, when in reality they have spent all their lifetime growing up in nazi germany, under heavy propaganda, believing in a glorified idea of the regime.

 

[RiverDelta]

Yeah, that's probably the most realistic outcome of the student movement, as opposed to them becoming magically democrats and marxists, when in reality they have spent all their lifetime growing up in nazi germany, under heavy propaganda, believing in a glorified idea of the regime.

Honestly, there's always been notable dissent movements in even the longest-lasting totalitarian regimes, it's not like just being raised in a culture necessarily means everyone in that culture will agree with it. That's one of the reasons why those regimes are totalitarian—they need to handle dissent.

The idea that the students should all be hyper-Nazis because that's all they'd think of in the Reich seems kind of unrealistically cynical and falls into this idea that somehow everyone in the Reich is more or less brainwashed.

 

[Tolkiene]

There's always dissent, as much as totalitarian regimes try to present themselves as monolithic blocks. OTL Nazi Germany had the Swingjugend and the White Rose. So I can buy there being democratic and Marxist youth groups. However, those wouldn't encompass all of the politicised students.

You'd have anti-Nazis, but also radical Nazi student groups who think the whole reason for the system failing is that the 'gold pheasants' (Goldfasane in German, a derogatory term for Party bigwigs) are corrupt oligarchs who have betrayed Hitler's vision. It is worth noting that students who genuinely oppose the Nazi regime might still have racist and imperialist views, even if they disdain the pervasive corruption and cruelty of the regime and the lack of freedom.

In OTL many ordinary Germans after the war still believed that Nazism had been a good idea, but incorrectly applied. In TNO Germany won the war and went on to become a superpower...only for the economy to go to hell afterwards etc. So I'd say that viewpoint would still get a lot of traction.

 

[Impirius]

It is worth noting that students who genuinely oppose the Nazi regime might still have racist and imperialist views, even if they disdain the pervasive corruption and cruelty of the regime and the lack of freedom.

In other words they would be fine with Speer,reformist Bormann or even Oberlander.
The youth wants change for the better and most of them wouldn't care how you get there as long as you do.