WI Graf Zeppelin was completed?

Apart from giving the airstrikes some fighter cover I don't see what Graff Zeppelin could do the Arctic Convoys that shore based Luftwaffe aircraft couldn't.

Where it might be useful would be in giving the German convoys to Norway some air cover. I've just put my copy of Whitley away but I think that was to be her role when construction was resumed in 1942 and so were the conversions of Seydlitz, De Grasse and the 3 liners.
 
It's going to be used to attack merchant shipping, should it escape into the Atlantic successfully.

Seeing carrier-based aircraft used to attack merchant shipping would be interesting, did the USN do anything like that in the Pacific against Japanese shipping? I'm only aware of submarines being used. I'd imagine it could be quite effective though, especially the first few times.
While USN CV AGs* certainly killed a LOT of merchant ships, theygenerally did so in ports. The exception of course is the guadalcalan campaign, but even that isn't the "commerce raiding carrier" in action so much as whacking anything Japanese that threatened a US Amphibious incursion.

*I do apologize for all the Lingo. This translated is American carrier aircraft, or fleet carrier air groups.
 
I'm sceptical too. However, back in October 1935 it was planned to have Graff Zeppelin completed in April 1939 and they did manage to launch her in December 1938 several months before Bismarck and Tirpitz.

Although she wasn't the best aircraft carrier ever designed she's still better than no aircraft carrier and has an air group of 14 Bf109s and 28 Fi167s or Ju87s. The air group actually existed IOTL because the Luftwaffe had one Bf109 and 2 Ju87 aircraft carrier squadrons when war broke out and doubled this force before the end of 1939. They weren't converted to ordinary fighter and dive bomber squadrons until after the Kriegsmarine suspended Graff Zeppelin.

With some jiggery pokery such as giving her priority over Tirpitz, Lutzow and Seydlitz they might be able to complete her before the end of 1939. If we make the POD November 1935 which was when the ship was ordered it would be possible for the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine to send personnel to Japan to learn aircraft carrier operations from the Japanese which would help when working up the ship. In spite of that she won't be operational until at least January 1941 (due to the reasons that will be sent in reply to this post) which would enable her to take part in Operation Berlin with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.

According to Whitley in German Capital Ships of World War II the OTL squadron's operational orders were to make pincer attacks on convoys to maximise the chance of success. It was anticipated that weakly escorted convoys would scatter on the appearance of the battleships so the aim was to cripple as many merchantmen as possible so that they could be sunk at leisure later.

The presence of Graff Zeppelin would make it easier to find the convoys. Once a convoy was found found her aircraft would find and cripple individual merchantmen which the battleships could finish off. If the convoys that they found were more heavily escorted (which is what happened IOTL) Graff Zeppelin could use her strike aircraft to knock out the escort. They don't have to sink Malaya, Ramilles and Rodney they just have to significantly reduce their maximum speeds so that The Twins can engage the convoy without fear of being engaged by the escorting battleship.
Really until June 22 41, personnel could go to and fro Japan on the Trans Siberian.
 

thaddeus

Donor
Apart from giving the airstrikes some fighter cover I don't see what Graff Zeppelin could do the Arctic Convoys that shore based Luftwaffe aircraft couldn't.

Where it might be useful would be in giving the German convoys to Norway some air cover. I've just put my copy of Whitley away but I think that was to be her role when construction was resumed in 1942 and so were the conversions of Seydlitz, De Grasse and the 3 liners.
while I agree with you about the marginal advantage over land-based aircraft, that wouldn't be immediately known by the RN? so there might be interruption(s) in the Arctic Convoys (we can all argue now about how critical that would have been? my view the early convoys were vital, not the least of which to assure the paranoid Soviet regime) OR more numerous RN warships, including carriers, devoted to escorting the convoys? (or likely both)
 

McPherson

Banned
As it says on the tin. In OTL work was suspended in june 1940. What if it wasn't but instead work on the Tirpitz was suspended (and thus the Tirpitz was never completed)? I guess the Graf Zeppelin could have been completed in late 1940 or early 1941. But then? What could she have done? It's probably too late to get her up and running to sortie with the Bismarck. Would Raeder have waited for the Bismarck to sortie until GZ was ready? Or would she have fared the same fate as the Tirpitz: sitting in a Norwegian fjord, getting attraction from the British and eventually being sunk.
Or are there other options?
1. I have no idea what the Germans thought about CVs. They poured a lot of steel and stupidity into that junkheap.

Compare.
dkm-graf-zeppelin-aircraft-carrier.gif

Graf Zeppelin

From wiki the characteristics: (projected)
General characteristics
Class and type:Graf Zeppelin-class aircraft carrier
Displacement:33,550 long tons (34,088 t) (full load)
Length:262.5 m (861 ft 3 in)
Beam:36.2 m (118 ft 9 in)
Draft:8.5 m (27 ft 11 in)
Installed power:200,000 shaft horsepower (150,000 kW)
Propulsion:4 geared turbines
Speed:33.8 knots (62.6 km/h; 38.9 mph)
Range:8,000 nmi (15,000 km; 9,200 mi) at 19 knots (35 km/h; 22 mph)
Complement:1,720
Armament:
Armor:
  • Belt: 100 mm (3.9 in)
  • Flight deck: 45 mm (1.8 in)
  • Main deck: 60 mm (2.4 in)
Aircraft carried:
aquila.jpg

Aquila.
From wiki the characteristics: (Projected)
General characteristics
Type:Aircraft carrier
Displacement:
  • 23,500 long tons (23,900 t) (standard)
  • 27,800 long tons (28,200 t) (full load)
Length:235.5 m (772 ft 8 in)
Beam:30 m (98 ft 5 in)
Draft:7.3 m (23 ft 11 in)
Installed power:151,000 shp (113,000 kW)
Propulsion:
Speed:30 kn (56 km/h; 35 mph)
Range:5,500 nmi (10,200 km; 6,300 mi) at 18 kn (33 km/h; 21 mph)
Complement:1,420 (107 officers)
Armament:
Armor:Deck: 8 cm (3.1 in)
Aircraft carried:51

Both illustrations from here.

Now. I will describe the situation I see. Compared to the Italian converted ocean liner, the German flat top has inferior deck armor, about equal plane handling characteristics, a useless three knot edge in speed, is too short ranged to operate without tanker support and is unable to operate aircraft in weather that a US or Japanese flattop or the Aquila would laugh at.

The German air-group planned would be roughly equivalent to an American CVE or a British CVL in anti-ship strike potential. How is that air group supposed to be of any use in any context? At least the Italians had an idea of an aviation defense ship that could provide fleet air defense to one of their surface action groups.

Then there are the AAA defenses and the fighter director setup. The Germans have radar and the Italians have optics. Both will not be able to CAP more than 50 kilometers from their respective flattops with the equipment they have. The Italians, if they are not sunk first time out, I expect will figure out how to optically CAP Japanese style. The Germans should know how to radar ground control intercept from practice by 1942, but if this bird farm, the Graf Zep is to function at all, it will have to be ready by 1939 or never. Figure them as clueless.

German flak was garbage at sea. The RM was a bit better.
The most sensible use for her is probably to sortie with one of the battleships and use her airgroup to keep the Fleet Air Arm off them long enough to get them into the open waters of the Atlantic. Unfortunately for the Germans, I don't think the air group is going to be big enough because the RN and RAF will have no choice about putting everything they have into stopping them.
One way trip. Blub. Blub. Blub.
I'm not sure that is really sensible. The airgroup is small, so if they keep a CAP up, that's only 6 or 8 planes. What was the range of their radar? When the first enemy planes are spotted they probably are already fairly closeby.
Seetakt? 25,000 meters. Freya? 200,000 meters optimistic and ideal over land. Figure a B-17 bomber sized target in the North Atlantic weather would be half that distance for Freya. USN dive bomber? Less than 50,000 meters.
Without a destroyer screen they're also vulnerable for submarine attacks (although they have their speed as an advantage, but when operating planes they're a sitting duck). Would be kinda funny if she was sunk by a british sub.
More likely SAG group. British and Germans seemed to be lax about defensive air recon in 1939-1941.
There is some decent reading on this, I'll dig through it and post if I can find the time.

A couple of quick thoughts* though though:
1. A CV sitting in Norway would be a very serious threat to arctic convoys.
Weather effects. Not that serious a threat. LW operational losses to weather were almost Aleutians bad. 15-18%. That is land based. Put the planes on a bird farm in arctic seas and double the loss rate to weather effects as to launches and traps.
2. A CV in the Baltic area would be quite useful for ground support, and could wreck havoc with later Soviet offensives. The Soviets generally only held air superiority when heavily concentrated or when the Germans couldn't stage aircraft to a region. Of course, this changed in the very late war following the allies smashing the Luftwaffe over France and Germany.
The Japanese experience against the ROCAF in the China war was that they had to mass strikes. 40 planes is going to do butkus in a shore strike for the Germans. The ROCAF flew Russian made garbage and the Japanese had to mass at least 50 planes per raid.
3. The RN, specifically the carriers of the RN, didn't really employ massed air strikes in the way of the IJN until the very late war. With the FAA putting up strikes of 10-25 AC at a time, mostly of fairly tepid types, the fighters from GZ would have a lot of potential when defending against sea based RN airpower. Of course, if the German ships are attacked by land based aircraft then the GZs fighters are vastly less useful, and against a massed airstrike of the type the late war USN could direct (or the early war IJN) the GZ would have been nearly helpless.
If GZ runs afoul of USS WASP or USS RANGER, she is dead meat. This is a distinct possibility if she enters the waters of the Neutrality Patrol declared exclusion zone. The USNAS was arguably the best trained and prepared naval aviation on Earth.
It's worth noting that the US and IJN both planned on their carriers fighting carriers primarily. The RN and Germans really didn't intend for this so much, using them to extend fighter coverage, launch raids, etc, but not really planning on, or building for, serious Carrier to Carrier combat. Thus, comparing the European CVs to the Pacific power CVs is really not comparing between the same intended product. The RN did have Ark Royal as a Pacific/Massed strike CV, but the RAF so screwed the FAA that she still wasn't going to be especially competitive with say, Kido Butai boats.
Agreed.
*These are items that occurred to me, not cited German naval plans
German KM fantasies are based on what they thought was British CV doctrine. That is the CV merely supported the SAG with recon and limited strike efforts leaving the gunships to do the main killing with artillery and torpedoes. This appears to be true in limited cases (Teleuda and Matapan), but not generally. (Hunt for Bismarck and the Taranto raid.). It just depended on the situation and the British admiral.
 
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And UK will try to send subs into the Baltic.
That would be a victory of sorts for the Germans.

The RN had a finite number of submarines so they'd be diverted from other fronts. The most likely one is the Mediterranean because the RN submarines deployed there would be the ones best suited for Baltic conditions. The likely result is that the RN looses several submarines to German mines in the Kattegat before giving up in much the same way that the Germans lost several U-boats to the Dover Barrage before giving up.

I think the most likely result is that she's sunk in a Norwegian port in 1944 by Tallboy bombs dropped by RAF Lancasters, sunk in a German port during a regular RAF bombing raid like Hipper, Lützow and Scheer, or she survives the war and surrenders to the Allies like Prinz Eugen.
If the ships is floating in 1944 then the Russian subs will hunt for her.
Maybe they would, but it's likely that their hunt will be unsuccessful as AFAIK they didn't sink or damage any of the surviving panzerschffen and cruisers in 1944.

I'm not saying that the Russians won't find her and then damage or sink her. I'm saying that it's extremely unlikely and if they're concentrating on finding her they're spending less time attacking shipping carrying supplies to the German forces at the front.
 
It's going to be used to attack merchant shipping, should it escape into the Atlantic successfully.

Seeing carrier-based aircraft used to attack merchant shipping would be interesting, did the USN do anything like that in the Pacific against Japanese shipping? I'm only aware of submarines being used. I'd imagine it could be quite effective though, especially the first few times.
The only example of aircraft carriers being used to attack merchant shipping that I can think of is the merchant shipping that the Japanese sank in the vicinity of Ceylon during the Indian Ocean raid.
 
The only example of aircraft carriers being used to attack merchant shipping that I can think of is the merchant shipping that the Japanese sank in the vicinity of Ceylon during the Indian Ocean raid.
TF 38/58 did it a fair few times albeit mainly as targets of opportunity near the end of the war.
 
With some jiggery pokery such as giving her priority over Tirpitz, Lutzow and Seydlitz they might be able to complete her before the end of 1939. If we make the POD November 1935 which was when the ship was ordered it would be possible for the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine to send personnel to Japan to learn aircraft carrier operations from the Japanese which would help when working up the ship. In spite of that she won't be operational until at least January 1941 (due to the reasons that will be sent in reply to this post) which would enable her to take part in Operation Berlin with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.
One of the reasons why Graff Zeppelin and Aircraft Carrier B weren't completed was the overloading of the German shipbuilding industry in general and the yards that built them in particular.

Deutsche Werke (Kiel) which built Graff Zeppelin also received orders for 18 Type II U-boats, the battlecruiser Gneisenau, the heavy cruiser Blücher, Light Cruisers M & O and 4 Type 1934 Z-boats between 1934 and the end of January 1939. Germania (Kiel) which built Aircraft Carrier B also received orders for 46 U-boats (14 Type II, 29 Type VII & 3 Type X), the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen, Light Cruiser P, 5 Type 1934A Z-boats and 6 F-boats over the same period.

We've had several Kriegsmarine threads recently and in some of them I've suggested that the Germans should have built a "Super Leipzig" displacing 8,000 tons instead of the light cruiser Nürnberg and the Hipper class. That's partially because they'd be more useful and partially because they'd be easier (and therefore quicker) to build due to being an existing design that incorporated proven technology (mainly the machinery), needing less raw materials and needing less labour. Deutsche Werke built the OTL Nürnberg which was a "standard Leipzig" in 24 months, but the yard spent 49 months building Blücher, while Blohm & Voss built Hipper in 46 months and Germania built Prinz Eugen in 51 months.

In other Kriegsmarine threads I've been suggesting that the Germans might have been better off building one medium-size destroyer instead of the large Z-boats and small T-boats because they'd be better than most of the destroyers built from 1934 IOTL and because they'd be easier to build. I'd also suggested building 12 additional M-boats instead of the 10 F-boats because they'd be better warships and they could be built in a different set of shipyards to those that built the aircraft carriers, capital ships, cruisers and destroyers.

Therefore, I think that if Deutsche Werke had built a Super Leipzig and 4 medium-size destroyers instead of Blücher and the 4 large destroyers the yard would be able to do a lot more work on Graff Zeppelin before the outbreak of World War II. This is in part because Graff Zeppelin and Gneisenau were built on the same slipway and Gneisenau might be launched sooner. IOTL she was launched 19 months after being laid down but Scharnhorst was launched in 16 months. If Gneisenau is launched sooner Graff Zeppelin can be laid down and launched sooner. Also if Gneisenau is launched sooner her fitting out can be completed sooner and that might also have a knock on effect on completing Graff Zeppelin. It's probable that the yard would have made more progress on the OTL Light Cruisers M & O because they would be additional Super Leipzigs instead of a new design and because the slipways that they were to be built on would become available sooner.

Similarly if Germania is building a Super Leipzig & 5 medium size destroyers instead of Prinz Eugen & 5 large destroyers while another yard is building 6 M-boats instead of the 6 F-boats that Germania built IOTL the yard can put more effort into Aircraft Carrier B and Light Cruiser P which ITTL will be a Super Leipzig instead of a new design.

Whitley says that Aircraft Carrier B was laid down in September 1936 and he's the source that I'm using. However, most other reference works say that she was laid down on the same slipway as Prinz Eugen which means she couldn't have been laid down until September 1938 at the earliest. If that's true the TTL Aircraft Carrier B could be laid down up to 16 months earlier than OTL because Prinz Eugen was launched 28 months after she was laid down, but the OTL Nürnberg was launched 12 months after she was laid down. If Aircraft Carrier B had been laid down in May 1937 instead of September 1938 and was launched 24 months later like her sister was IOTL she'd have left her slipway in May 1939 and (in common Graff Zeppelin) construction would have continued to the spring of 1940 instead of being suspended in September 1939. Or they could simply lay down Aircraft Carrier B down in April 1936 instead of the cruiser which would be begun after the aircraft carrier was launched. Based on how long it took to launch Graff Zeppelin and Prinz Eugen that would bring the launching of Aircraft Carrier B to April or May 1938.

One of the major defects of the OTL heavy cruisers and large destroyers was their problematic high pressure steam machinery. One of the reasons for the change to the Super Leipzig and medium size destroyers is that the former would have a mixed diesel & low pressure steam plan for reliability and range while the medium destroyers would have all low pressure steam or all diesel machinery for the same reasons. This might have a side effect on the construction of the aircraft carriers and battleships as this will reduce the demand for steam turbine machinery so the manufacturers can fulfil fewer orders with the same resources. Another possible side effect is that Whitley wrote that one of the reasons for the long construction times for the Z-type destroyers was that specialists from the shipyards were constantly called to help the Kriegsmarine deal with machinery problems in the ships that had already been completed which delayed the ships that were still under construction. Hopefully, that's a problem that won't exist with the diesel or low pressure steam powered destroyers built ITTL so destroyer building times aught to be reduced as a consequence and it might allow the yards to pay more attention to the other types of warship they were building like the aircraft carriers.

Between May 1939 and the outbreak of World War II Deutsche Werke received orders for Battleship K, Battlecruisers O and Light Cruiser R while Deutsche Werke received orders for Battlecruiser Q and 6 medium-size Type 1938B Z-boats. All the capital ships and cruisers were suspended after the war broke out and cancelled later. The destroyers were re-ordered as large Type 1936A Z-boats in September 1939. The first 3 were completed as such but the second 3 were cancelled in February 1941 and replaced by 3 scout cruisers which were cancelled later.

IOTL the Germans put a lot of effort into the construction of the H class battleships between April 1939 and the outbreak of World War II in order to make making up for the time lost by the lack of suitable slipways and the lengthy gestation of the H class battleship design. According to Whitley in German Capital Ships of World War II they had 84,435 tons of material on order, delivered or in work on the slips for Battleships H, J and K at the outbreak of World War II including 35,735 tons in progress for Battleship K (which hadn't been laid down) which was on order from Deutsche Werke.

I've said before and will say again that Germany should not have ordered the H class battleships and O class battlecruisers. It should have been obvious to the Kriegsmarine's high command that Germany would soon be at war with France and Great Britain so there was no possibility of completing the Z Plan and the resoruces should be put into building more U-boats and completing the aircraft carriers, capital ships and cruisers that were already under construction. This aught to have been obvious to them on 31st March 1939 when Britain and France gave their guarantees to Poland following Germany's occupation of the rump of what is now the Czech Republic on 16th March 1939.

ITTL Germania would have received orders for 6 TTL design medium-size destroyers all of which would eventually be completed which in part was due to building them to the design they were originally ordered as. IOTL they were laid down after Aircraft Carrier B was suspended and hopefully ITTL building them to a design that requires less material and labour would spare some for the construction of Aircraft Carrier B to continue at a slow rate. Except that the other changes I've made are intended to have Aircraft Carrier B launched before World War II breaks out. Therefore, it might be the other way around, i.e. having Aircraft Carrier B more advanced in the summer of 1939 might allow the 6 destroyers ordered in the summer of 1939 to be begun and completed sooner.
 
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IIRC, the basic thinking of the Germans when designing the Graf Zeppelin was to build "task forces" centered around a battleship (Bismarck) with 1 battleship, 1 carrier, escorts and supply/support ships.

This idea was abandonned during the construction of the carriers and before the support ships were even started .

So what to do with the Graf Zeppelin ?

option 1 : do nothing and let it rust somewhere (OTL choice)

option 2 : return to the initial idea and complete the rest of the task force, then sortie

option 3 : sell it to someone (no buyer you could deliver to)
 
IIRC, the basic thinking of the Germans when designing the Graf Zeppelin was to build "task forces" centered around a battleship (Bismarck) with 1 battleship, 1 carrier, escorts and supply/support ships.

This idea was abandonned during the construction of the carriers and before the support ships were even started .

So what to do with the Graf Zeppelin ?

option 1 : do nothing and let it rust somewhere (OTL choice)

option 2 : return to the initial idea and complete the rest of the task force, then sortie

option 3 : sell it to someone (no buyer you could deliver to)
Slight correction: the stupid fantasies for Plan Z called for a surface action group in the Atlantic to be centred around three H-class battleships, an O-class battlecruiser and a fleet carrier. Otherwise, however, you are right. Option 2 would be interesting but timing and the points that @McPherson has pointed out means GZ will probably be at the bottom of the sea within a few days or weeks.
 

thaddeus

Donor
IIRC, the basic thinking of the Germans when designing the Graf Zeppelin was to build "task forces" centered around a battleship (Bismarck) with 1 battleship, 1 carrier, escorts and supply/support ships.

This idea was abandonned during the construction of the carriers and before the support ships were even started .

So what to do with the Graf Zeppelin ?

option 1 : do nothing and let it rust somewhere (OTL choice)

option 2 : return to the initial idea and complete the rest of the task force, then sortie

option 3 : sell it to someone (no buyer you could deliver to)

Slight correction: the stupid fantasies for Plan Z called for a surface action group in the Atlantic to be centred around three H-class battleships, an O-class battlecruiser and a fleet carrier. Otherwise, however, you are right. Option 2 would be interesting but timing and the points that @McPherson has pointed out means GZ will probably be at the bottom of the sea within a few days or weeks.
the Germans had experience operating seaplane tenders and conducted experiments (successfully) launching helicopters, either one of which or both would have been more useful for them than proper aircraft carriers.

if they felt like they had to, as a modern navy, build a carrier, my speculation has been to mirror Italy and convert the ocean liner SS Columbus which was made obsolete by newer liners in the 1930's.
 
As if Goering will let her have any aircraft.
That statement does not match the facts.

IOTL the Luftwaffe formed its first aircraft carrier squadron on 1st November 1938, a second on 15th November 1938 and its third on 15th July 1939. This force of 3 squadrons was expanded into a force of 6 squadrons under 2 group stabs in the autumn of 1939 which coincidentally is when the Kriegsmarine stopped work on Aircraft Carrier B. This force was transferred to the mainstream Luftwaffe in the summer of 1939 AFTER the Kriegsmarine stopped work on Graff Zeppelin.

See below.

Aicraft Carrier Squadrons.png


Source: https://www.ww2.dk/air/seefl/trgr186.htm
  • Tr.Gr. 186 is an abbreviation of Trägergruppe 186 which according to Google Translate means Carrier Group 186.
  • 6.(Jagd)/Tr.Gr.186 which was formed on 15th November 1938 by re-designating 4./JG136 (which in turn was formed on 1st October 1937) had one of the longest lineages in the Luftwaffe because JG136 could trace its lineage back to Fliegerstaffel (J) 1 was formed on 1st October 1934 in Kiel-Holtenau.
  • The Jagdstaffeln were equipped with Bf109Bs until September 1939 when they converted to the Bf109E.
  • The Stukastaffeln were equipped with the Ju87B
Therefore, if someone has to be found at fault it should be Erich Raeder for stopping work on the aircraft carriers and not Hermann Göring for disbanding aircraft carrier squadrons which were not going to have aircraft carriers to operate from for some time to come.
 
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You're not going to win a carrier battle against any of the RN fleet carriers and you're not going to Pearl Harbour the Royal Navy in port so other than hiding her the only other use I can think of is to load as many Bf-109s as you can and go for it while the Captain hums the Ride of the Valkyries.
That would be 36-42 Bf109s which would be no worse than non-folding Seafires in the point defence role and probably much better than Sea Hurricanes. That's a formidable defence against the quantity and quality of aircraft that the FAA, Coastal Command or for that matter the USN could throw at it in 1941-42.

Ride of the Valkyries made me think, "I love the smell of burning aircraft carriers in the morning..."

 
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McPherson

Banned
The only example of aircraft carriers being used to attack merchant shipping that I can think of is the merchant shipping that the Japanese sank in the vicinity of Ceylon during the Indian Ocean raid.
Chu'uk Raid might fit the bill as another example. Most of the targets were merchant men, though the exercise was meant to be a Pearl Harbor in reverse in warship plinking. The Japanese Combined Fleet used what fuel they had and ran for it. The merchant ships left behind in the anchorage were the sink-ex. Not as "glorious to save" if you were a bushidoist Combined Fleeter, but if you were a Mahanist, an oil tanker or a dry bulk cargo carrier sunk, was a good day's work in the naval campaign.
 

McPherson

Banned
the Germans had experience operating seaplane tenders and conducted experiments (successfully) launching helicopters, either one of which or both would have been more useful for them than proper aircraft carriers.
That might have been a sensible path to follow if they had figured it out early enough. Helos operated off a ship make good spotters for raiders in the 1930s context where aircraft carriers and LRMPs are few and radar is an oddity. Radar generally does not become a thing at sea until 1942-1943.
if they felt like they had to, as a modern navy, build a carrier, my speculation has been to mirror Italy and convert the ocean liner SS Columbus which was made obsolete by newer liners in the 1930's.
From wiki (Properties):
General characteristics
Class and type:Columbus-class ocean liner
Tonnage:
  • 32,354 GRT (1924–1929)
  • 32,565 GRT (1929–1939)[1]
Length:750 ft (230 m)[1]
Beam:83 ft (25 m)[1]
Height:49 ft (15 m)[1]
Decks:8
Propulsion:
  • Triple-expansion reciprocating engines (1924–1929)
  • Steam turbine engines (1929−1939); Twin screw[1]
Speed:
  • Before refit: 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph)
  • After refit: 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph)[1]
Boats & landing
craft carried:
24
Capacity:1,750 passengers
She has sufficient takeoff and run length. Her beam is a little tight. Figure the Germans botch the razee and buzz-cut and she turns out top-heavy, but still not a deal-breaker. The speed is the problem. She is slow.
Therefore, if someone has to be found at fault it should be Erich Raeder for stopping work on the aircraft carriers and not Hermann Göring for disbanding aircraft carrier squadrons which were not going to have aircraft carriers to operate from for some time to come.
The Harold Stark of the Kriegsmarine would not know how to plan for mission if he was given Arleigh Burke and Hiram Rickover as aides.
 
Slight correction: the stupid fantasies for Plan Z called for a surface action group in the Atlantic to be centred around three H-class battleships, an O-class battlecruiser and a fleet carrier. Otherwise, however, you are right. Option 2 would be interesting but timing and the points that @McPherson has pointed out means GZ will probably be at the bottom of the sea within a few days or weeks.

I'm not talking about the insanity that was Plan Z.

I'm talking about the 1937 plans that were about 2 (if possible 3) taskforces, each with a single battleship (Bismarck class), a single carrier (Graf Zeppelin class), a couple of cruisers, some destroyers and a few supply/support ships.

Such taskforces were quite reasonable, as they were aimed at the French commerce shipping.

There is a very interresting video on youtube by Military History Visualized : Why was the Carrier Graf Zeppelin built & never finished?
 
That would be 36-42 Bf109s which would be no worse than non-folding Seafires in the point defence role and probably much better than Sea Hurricanes. That's a formidable defence against the quantity and quality of aircraft that the FAA, Coastal Command or for that matter the USN could throw at it in 1941-42

Wasn't she expected to be very slow to cycle aircraft up from hangar to launch? Could she have got a decent number of those 36(ish) into the air if raids were inbound?
 
As it says on the tin. In OTL work was suspended in june 1940. What if it wasn't but instead work on the Tirpiz was suspended (and thus the Tirpitz was never completed)? I guess the Graf Zeppelin could have been completed in late 1940 or early 1941. But then? What could she have done? It's probably too late to get her up and running to sortie with the Bismarck. Would Raeder have waited for the Bismarck to sortie until GZ was ready? Or would she have fared the same fate as the Tirpiz: sitting in a Norwegian fjord, getting attraction from the British and eventually being sunk.
Or are there other options?

I clearly don't see what a threat a light aircraft carrier with 42 planes, including Stuka style bombe divers can be in Northern Europe where the main threat from Germany is long range airplanes based in France or Norway.

The Italians don't have any aircraft carrier because they knew that their position in the middle of Méditerranée give them airbases able to strike anywhere in the Med with proper long range airplanes.
 
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