Kaiphranos
Donor
It's not often I stick my head into Post-1900, but I am delighted by the concept of this timeline! I will be watching with interest.
The Stomach of Man Under Socialism: A Culinary History of Socialist America
- Thread starter JesterBL
- Start date
The ideology is called 'revolutionary industrial unionism' or 'Marxism-DeLeonism', with the preferred terminology depending on where you fall on the ideological divide within America. It is an ATL cousin (shaped by history and circumstance) of the IWW's ideological underpinnings and the theories and writings of Daniel De Leon and the Socialist Labor Party. The IWW is sometimes described as syndicalist or anarcho-syndicalist but they rejected that label IOTL.
As to how the economy is currently structured, it has worker's self-management and democratic representation in industry (as referenced in Chapter 1) and at least some elements of a planned economy (the Emergency Programs referenced in Chapter 1). There are controls on foreign exchange and a desire for hard currency on the part of the government/enterprises, of which more will be written in Appendix I: Understanding America's Hard-Currency Shops and Services. There definitely exist markets to some extent and in some contexts and even some small holder entrepreneurship, although the exact degree to which this is tolerated varies depending on the political mood. This will be covered in more detail in Appendix II: Understanding the Basic Structure of America's One Big Union.
America- kinda dumb about agriculture in every TL.
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Is America the only socialist state in existence? How are ethnic minorities treated? This tl raises so many questions. Will you expand it beyond the food?
I'm going to deal with food first, although I won't rule out doing something else within the same TL in the future. Part of the format that I like here is being able to write with the intent of allowing you to tease out information from what is written about food. I don't intend on answering all of the questions this raises but I promise at least some of the future updates will provide some glimpse into your two questions (FWIW the author states that Russians are also socialist or socialist-leaning but gives no indication of how long they have been socialist, what kind of Socialist they are, or what that relationship is like because he's a BBC journalist on the American beat and knowing about Russia just isn't his job).
I think it was mentioned that Soviet Union exists in the bourbon chapter
Just to say I'm really enjoying this timeline, and I can't wait to see what food it discusses next!
Loving the writing and attention to detail. I personally wouldn't sweat the details of the wider world, hard to keep up this kind of granularity of the scope of things gets too large.
Excited to hear about those Japanese/East Asian influences like smoked tofu, I guess that'll be a bit like the shashlik equivalent. But if I recall, corn and soy essentially compete for the same land in the Upper Mississippi. Has one crop lost ground or do export restrictions allow there to be enough corn and soy to go around?
Excited to hear about those Japanese/East Asian influences like smoked tofu, I guess that'll be a bit like the shashlik equivalent. But if I recall, corn and soy essentially compete for the same land in the Upper Mississippi. Has one crop lost ground or do export restrictions allow there to be enough corn and soy to go around?
Fundamentally it seems your European hamburgers are just made of grass fed lean chuck. Did they miss the brisket memo?
This remains a brilliant timeline idea and I’m excited for more
This remains a brilliant timeline idea and I’m excited for more
Ah, this reminds me of Mongolian potato salad. I wonder if America has any commie-bloc states that it can introduce its culinary ways to.
Also on the drought discussion, I think that's maybe the period I'd like to see fleshed out the most. Seems like it was bad enough OTL and I'd like to see just how the reds govern America's big rural states and avoid insurgency-- party offices right across the street from every small-town church?
Also on the drought discussion, I think that's maybe the period I'd like to see fleshed out the most. Seems like it was bad enough OTL and I'd like to see just how the reds govern America's big rural states and avoid insurgency-- party offices right across the street from every small-town church?
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Kaiphranos
Donor
So will there be a section that touches on tea, coffee, or other hot caffeinated beverages? It seems like both tea and coffee would be difficult to grow domestically, and if foreign trade is also restricted, all sorts of alternatives might have a chance to become popular. Maybe yaupon tea sees a revival?
Both are grown in the US, but not in very large quantities.
Tea production in the United States - Wikipedia
Coffee production in Hawaii - Wikipedia
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words.
Actually, while corn and soy are often planted on the same land, fields are often rotated between the two (because of soybeans nitrogen fixing ability, although sometimes soybeans are actually just used as living mulch between corn crops, so it isn't always a production crop). The US IOTL produces plenty of both with a lot of it going towards export and towards feeding livestock, although the US here is almost certainly not hitting OTL's numbers for either crop.
To the first part- I appreciate the share on the Mongolian potato salad. As to the presence of other countries' influence, stay tuned.
To the second, I will be covering the Special Period in more detail in Appendix III. Chapter 4: A Squirrel In Every Pot and Chapter 6: The Conquest of Bread will also include more detail on the Special Period specific to their topics.
As mentioned upthread, I am still mulling over what I am going to be writing on the topic of carbonated beverages and I think that topic is pretty closely related to other caffeinated beverages. I definitely have some ideas but don't quite know where to place them just yet.
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I have double checked. It mentions Russia, but not a USSR.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a USSR, but it wasn't called that.
Sidebar: White Lightning
Sidebar: White Lightning
“The manufacture of illicit whiskey in the mountains is not dead. Far from it. As long as the operation of a still remains so financially rewarding, it will never die. There will always be men ready to take their chances against the law for such an attractive profit, and willing to take their punishment when they are caught.”- Moonshining as Fine Art[1]
White mule. New make. White dog. Mountain dew. White lightning. Moonshine. All of these are terms that still abound for the peculiar unaged spirit which occupies the other, more illicit side of American drinking.
Moonshine is an illicit spirit which once had relatives in the British Isles before the taxman brought the farmers and the distillers well under heel. In fact, it was likely disgruntled Ulster Scots who first brought the rough, unaged spirit to America’s shores (they also brought along their aversion to taxes). In popular American historiography, one of America’s first class-conscious revolts was the Whiskey Rebellion in Western Pennsylvania, a fact which would doubtless surprise many modern moonshiners who are often woefully unaware of what is said about their kinfolk on American campuses. Those lonesome whiskey rebels lost their battle but won the war and kept the taxman at bay until at least the First American Civil War, when unregistered (and therefore, untaxed) stills were made illegal. They fought their own battle against the large licensed distillers for much of the pre-modern era, with moonshine soon becoming a local, familial product, something one bought not simply to get drunk but to support the one who made it. Since the Second American Civil War, American moonshining has maintained its illicit character, along with most petty entrepreneurial activities. American moonshining is simply one of the more dangerous and glamorous forms of outlaw capitalism in the United States.
Like American bourbon, moonshine once displayed far more of its heritage in its mashbill, which used to be composed of corn, malted barley and rye but is now mostly made of sorghum and cane sugar, with corn occasionally making its way into the odd mashbill. Sorghum syrup and cane sugar do not require the diastatic conversion power of taka-koji. Moonshine is instead made with baker’s yeast, easily pilfered or legally bought in appropriate quantities over time to avoid any undue suspicion. Sorghum syrup and cane sugar avoid spoilage which means that a moonshiner may slowly accumulate his mashbill without the same worries of rot or pests which he has with large quantities of corn, malted barley or rye. This was likely an adaptation to the shortages of the Special Period and special attention paid to the provision of staples during that era, but unlike with legitimate distilleries, this is not particularly well-documented.
Moonshine is still very much a local product, often sold through friends of friends and men who call one another ‘cousin’ without much regard for actual relations. However, in recent decades, it has become a product for export to the cities especially the burgeoning urban centers of the American South. During that time, it has invariably become connected not only to the criminal underworld of America but also to America’s cultural avant-garde. The Lawrenceburg distilleries have responded by trying to create their own ‘moonshines’ for legal sale, although connoisseurs believe they can discern the difference. Surprising no one, I must say that I agree with the connoisseurs.
It was in Raleigh (pronounced RAH-lee) that I was first able to try a legal moonshine and an illegal moonshine side by side. The legal moonshine was named ‘Rare Old Mountain Dew’ and had a caricature of a “hill-billy” upon the label. The illegal moonshine had no name and was poured from a glass jar 'repurposed' from a cooperative kitchen. The legal moonshine was highly alcoholic, clear as water, smooth on the tongue, tasting of nothing. The illegal moonshine was hot, rough on the tongue, and had a flavor bouquet running the gamut from grapefruit pith to green peppercorn to pipe tobacco. This is sometimes called ‘the sour taste’ by those who enjoy moonshine. This difference in character between the two spirits likely comes down to what distillers call ‘the cuts’- the distilleries of Lawrenceburg can afford to run the complex of chemicals that spew forth from the still through again and again, and they do so even with the ‘sour heads’ of a run. The small distiller of moonshine, meanwhile, cannot run their still continuously and must be more economical with their distillate so they include much of the ‘sour heads’ in their final product. The end result is reminiscent of the other great rustic distillates of the world, the French marc, the Italian grappa, the Mexican tequila. It’s too bad that transporting the illegal kind could get a foreigner jail time.
Moonshine is traditionally passed around and drunk communally straight from the jar. However, it is sometimes adulterated with sugar and spices, with one particularly popular variant being called “apple pie shine” prepared by steeping apples, sugar and baking spices in the prepared spirit at least overnight. I was served a fine drink consisting of moonshine, orange marmalade and nutmeg which reminded me more of a visit to the West Indies Federation than to the American South but was enjoyable nonetheless. Regardless of how it is served, if offered, you should not turn up your nose at the opportunity to try- and share in- America's outlaw spirit.
[1] A pamphlet produced by the All-Union American Folklore Project during the daring and heady days of the Nearing Movement in the early 1960s. It and other works of that era provide a rare glimpse into rural life nearly 50 years after the Revolution.*
*OOC: this is lifted directly from The Foxfire Book (1972)
“The manufacture of illicit whiskey in the mountains is not dead. Far from it. As long as the operation of a still remains so financially rewarding, it will never die. There will always be men ready to take their chances against the law for such an attractive profit, and willing to take their punishment when they are caught.”- Moonshining as Fine Art[1]
White mule. New make. White dog. Mountain dew. White lightning. Moonshine. All of these are terms that still abound for the peculiar unaged spirit which occupies the other, more illicit side of American drinking.
Moonshine is an illicit spirit which once had relatives in the British Isles before the taxman brought the farmers and the distillers well under heel. In fact, it was likely disgruntled Ulster Scots who first brought the rough, unaged spirit to America’s shores (they also brought along their aversion to taxes). In popular American historiography, one of America’s first class-conscious revolts was the Whiskey Rebellion in Western Pennsylvania, a fact which would doubtless surprise many modern moonshiners who are often woefully unaware of what is said about their kinfolk on American campuses. Those lonesome whiskey rebels lost their battle but won the war and kept the taxman at bay until at least the First American Civil War, when unregistered (and therefore, untaxed) stills were made illegal. They fought their own battle against the large licensed distillers for much of the pre-modern era, with moonshine soon becoming a local, familial product, something one bought not simply to get drunk but to support the one who made it. Since the Second American Civil War, American moonshining has maintained its illicit character, along with most petty entrepreneurial activities. American moonshining is simply one of the more dangerous and glamorous forms of outlaw capitalism in the United States.
Like American bourbon, moonshine once displayed far more of its heritage in its mashbill, which used to be composed of corn, malted barley and rye but is now mostly made of sorghum and cane sugar, with corn occasionally making its way into the odd mashbill. Sorghum syrup and cane sugar do not require the diastatic conversion power of taka-koji. Moonshine is instead made with baker’s yeast, easily pilfered or legally bought in appropriate quantities over time to avoid any undue suspicion. Sorghum syrup and cane sugar avoid spoilage which means that a moonshiner may slowly accumulate his mashbill without the same worries of rot or pests which he has with large quantities of corn, malted barley or rye. This was likely an adaptation to the shortages of the Special Period and special attention paid to the provision of staples during that era, but unlike with legitimate distilleries, this is not particularly well-documented.
Moonshine is still very much a local product, often sold through friends of friends and men who call one another ‘cousin’ without much regard for actual relations. However, in recent decades, it has become a product for export to the cities especially the burgeoning urban centers of the American South. During that time, it has invariably become connected not only to the criminal underworld of America but also to America’s cultural avant-garde. The Lawrenceburg distilleries have responded by trying to create their own ‘moonshines’ for legal sale, although connoisseurs believe they can discern the difference. Surprising no one, I must say that I agree with the connoisseurs.
It was in Raleigh (pronounced RAH-lee) that I was first able to try a legal moonshine and an illegal moonshine side by side. The legal moonshine was named ‘Rare Old Mountain Dew’ and had a caricature of a “hill-billy” upon the label. The illegal moonshine had no name and was poured from a glass jar 'repurposed' from a cooperative kitchen. The legal moonshine was highly alcoholic, clear as water, smooth on the tongue, tasting of nothing. The illegal moonshine was hot, rough on the tongue, and had a flavor bouquet running the gamut from grapefruit pith to green peppercorn to pipe tobacco. This is sometimes called ‘the sour taste’ by those who enjoy moonshine. This difference in character between the two spirits likely comes down to what distillers call ‘the cuts’- the distilleries of Lawrenceburg can afford to run the complex of chemicals that spew forth from the still through again and again, and they do so even with the ‘sour heads’ of a run. The small distiller of moonshine, meanwhile, cannot run their still continuously and must be more economical with their distillate so they include much of the ‘sour heads’ in their final product. The end result is reminiscent of the other great rustic distillates of the world, the French marc, the Italian grappa, the Mexican tequila. It’s too bad that transporting the illegal kind could get a foreigner jail time.
Moonshine is traditionally passed around and drunk communally straight from the jar. However, it is sometimes adulterated with sugar and spices, with one particularly popular variant being called “apple pie shine” prepared by steeping apples, sugar and baking spices in the prepared spirit at least overnight. I was served a fine drink consisting of moonshine, orange marmalade and nutmeg which reminded me more of a visit to the West Indies Federation than to the American South but was enjoyable nonetheless. Regardless of how it is served, if offered, you should not turn up your nose at the opportunity to try- and share in- America's outlaw spirit.
[1] A pamphlet produced by the All-Union American Folklore Project during the daring and heady days of the Nearing Movement in the early 1960s. It and other works of that era provide a rare glimpse into rural life nearly 50 years after the Revolution.*
*OOC: this is lifted directly from The Foxfire Book (1972)
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Now that's a Mountain Dew that I would avoid. Probably tastes like death even if I was a man that was used to imbibing. Anything to make a quick buck under "private enterprise", hehehehehe.
I wonder if alcohol is one of the few commodities under the control of the state or if practically all modes of production and utilities are not at least partially privatized.
I wonder if alcohol is one of the few commodities under the control of the state or if practically all modes of production and utilities are not at least partially privatized.
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It'll tickle yer innards!*
Distilling is one part of the food and drink industry that definitely has more heavy-handed management by the Industrial Unions and that is in part because it really is an industry that benefits hugely from scale and in part because it is hugely lucrative. It's also an industry in a way that other parts of the food/drink sector aren't.
*the original slogan for Mountain Dew and very nearly this sidebar's title
It has not! I've just been especially busy with work and some personal stuff. I've got two chapters in the chamber (about Franco-American cuisine and high dining in the Cooperative Commonwealth and the presence of game on the American table, respectively) that I am currently working on, as well as a skeleton of what I want to say about soda and coffee.