marktaha
Banned
What was so wrong with him?I get that you don’t like him but why would that happen if it didn’t happen iotl?
What was so wrong with him?I get that you don’t like him but why would that happen if it didn’t happen iotl?
McNamara? The war criminal?What was so wrong with him?
But I don’t see a reason why we would do that this time. We didn’t do iotl when the opposition to the war and its leaders was even greater. Don’t see what would change that could cause it to happen this time.America is like the horse with blinders at that period in History. What should have been done was not done because the sight was hobbled.
One cannot help what happens in China or the USSR in the RTL or in this ATL, but the Americans do/did have a say about their own war criminals.
But I don’t see a reason why we would do that this time. We didn’t do iotl when the opposition to the war and its leaders was even greater. Don’t see what would change that could cause it to happen this time.
These are more your opinions. That it was an imperialist war and what not. Or that it was a war crime. I’m not gonna debate that with you. It just doesn’t change that the US’s view on the war and its leader won’t be any different if not slightly better off. Nothing will him put under any trial if it didn’t happen in our timeline. Especially since here we won the war.Maybe McNamara's 100,000 gets the press reportage it deserved at the time and did not really get. Maybe the bombing campaign gets similar treatment? Whatever it takes. But imperialist racist colonialism is just that, and Vietnam fits the definition. And imperialist wars of aggression are in my opinion, war-crimes against peace.
Example of the American mindset.
Much of the terminology is racist and derogatory of the Vietnamese people. This denigration of their human dignity and the respect of an "ally" is kind of indicative of the American soldier in-country. Historically, if one wanted to know who the imperialist colonial interloper was, one could stroll down to the local infantry barracks of the occupier and listen to the interloper infantry slang to measure the degree of imperialism present in that infantry.
One could also count up the massacres.
NO , air bursted cities , as opposed to ground bursted hard targets , mean that there is a minimal amount of fallout. All the bad things in WW3 scenarios are due to people modelling the effects of a largely counterforce strike on silos, bunkers and hardened facilities that need ground bursts to kill. This scenario where all the big bombs are just killing cities with airbursts might cause a few redder sunsets but no real radioactive contamination outside China or the few areas in Russia that got hit. Indeed tactical warheads probably ended up causing more contamination then the big boys.Are Americans, especially on the West Coast, going to be watching the aftermath with strontium-90 or cesium-137 laced popcorn? The war ended as predicted, with lots of Chinese cities nuked
He helped conduct the.Vietnam war against Communist aggression.McNamara? The war criminal?
THE ANGRY AFTERMATH TO McNAMARA'S CONFESSION
Robert McNamara’s Infamous “Project 100,000”
The list of the man's crimes is incredibly long.
Thanks for the reply. I was asking because different types of nukes create different radiation profiles. There are dirtier bombs as well as those described in the story.NO , air bursted cities , as opposed to ground bursted hard targets , mean that there is a minimal amount of fallout. All the bad things in WW3 scenarios are due to people modelling the effects of a largely counterforce strike on silos, bunkers and hardened facilities that need ground bursts to kill. This scenario where all the big bombs are just killing cities with airbursts might cause a few redder sunsets but no real radioactive contamination outside China or the few areas in Russia that got hit. Indeed tactical warheads probably ended up causing more contamination then the big boys.
He helped conduct the.Vietnam war against Communist aggression.
Unless the fireball touches the ground then the highly irradiated material is only really the bomb/warhead itself. The largest of those used in this story appears to be an SS-8 which had a warhead including casing that weighed around 2 tons. For reference Chernobyl released around 60t of material. So the total amount from all the bombs would appear to be of the order of a Chernobyl sized event. Very detectable but not dangerous to the US. Another comparison would be the largest OTL test , that of the Tsar Bomb, which was a airburst detonation of a 50MT bomb over Mityushikha Bay, it would have released 27t of material ).Thanks for the reply. I was asking because different types of nukes create different radiation profiles. There are dirtier bombs as well as those described in the story.
History has discredited the Southeast Asia "domino theory". What the PRVN fought was a war of national liberation against foreign occupiers.
Well, in benevolent hindsight that’s true, but at the time the whole of SEA going communist (leaning to either Moscow or Peking) was perceived as a very real threat. Remember too that the atrocities perpetrated by the communist forces (mostly against the the very people they were “liberating”) were just as horrific as what the “colonial” forces were inflicting. Cambodia is a stark example. That said, the West, and America in particular, has a very poor track record of propping up brutal anti-communist regimes in “defense of freedom”. So nobody is wearing any halos.
ric350
Arguably the defense of the Soviet Union against the Third Reich was greater and more costly, though of course involving fewer people in an absolute sense due to China having the larger population.and the biggest one and bloodiest one... CHINA.
Arguably the defense of the Soviet Union against the Third Reich was greater and more costly, though of course involving fewer people in an absolute sense due to China having the larger population.
With fusion devices, the extra jacket would be U-238 for extra yield, and dirtier, than say a jacket of lead, that was 'clean' as then more of the bombs yield came from the fusion secondary than the primary fission 'sparkplug'es, the bombs are dirtier than modern ones ( they are less efficient so are bigger with more radioactive material ) but they were not deliberately made dirty ( the Doomsday Cobalt bombs in Science Fiction have an extra jacket of mainly Cobalt just to be irradiated
This is somewhat off-topic, but the Chinese only really "threw out" the Japanese and that was with copious American, Soviet, and British help. It doesn't fit the narrative of a grand anti-colonial struggle, it was a very windy and traumatic path of nationbuilding by multiple actors, many of whom were themselves the "Chinese collaborationists" you mention.The defense of the USSR was a war of self defense. Estimated cost was about 7-9 million military and 15-20 million civilian deaths in The Great Patriotic War. I have used the ratio of 1 in 9 Russians murdered in that war because that seems to be the number the Russians accept as likely. The Russians are not even sure what the true final numbers are.
China threw out Britain, the United States, Russia, Japan and the Chinese collaborationists who cooperated and allied with the "foreign devils". Estimated cost during the Century of Shame? About 50-100 million DEAD from 1845 to 1945. Nobody knows how many more Chinese Mao had murdered post 1945 to consolidate and maintain his rule; but the numbers are believed to be staggering and somewhere in the millions to tens of millions range.
One last response and then take this to PM. We should not derail the thread further.This is somewhat off-topic, but the Chinese only really "threw out" the Japanese and that was with copious American, Soviet, and British help. It doesn't fit the narrative of a grand anti-colonial struggle, it was a very windy and traumatic path of nationbuilding by multiple actors, many of whom were themselves the "Chinese collaborationists" you mention.