List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

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Jan Olbracht

Another return of Piasts:

Stanisław, Duke of Mazovia, lives long enough to marry Hedwig Jagiellon (daughter of Sigismund the Old), with whom he has posthumous son, whose son in turn marries ATL daughter of Sigismund Augustus. Thus after Sigismund Augustus dies his Piast grandnephew/son-in-law succeedes him.

Stanisław I (1500-1530) Duke of Mazovia, m. Jadwiga Jagiellonka (1513-1573)

1) Stanisław II (1530-1562) Duke of Mazovia 1530, m. Zofia Tarnowska (1534-1570)

1) Konrad IV/I (1553-1593) Duke of Mazovia 1562, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1572, m. Jadwiga Jagiellonka (1554-1607)*​
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1) Zygmunt (1574-1577)​
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2) Stanisław III/I (1575-1625) Duke of Mazovia, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1593, m. Maria Christina of Austria (1574-1621)​
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3) Jadwiga (1577-1584)​
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4) Zofia (1580)​
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5) Zygmunt (1582)​
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6) Konrad V (1583-1604) Duke of Mazovia​
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7) Katarzyna (1588-1632) m. Albrecht VI (1584-1666) Duke of Bavaria​
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2) Jadwiga (1555)​
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3) Zofia (1556-1559)​
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4) Anna (1558-1601) m. Albrecht Friedrich (1553-1618) Duke of Prussia, has issue​
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5) Stanisław (1560)​
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* Daughter of Sigismund Augustus and Catherine of Austria.
 
RedKing

RedKing

Here's a somewhat unlikely one where Catherine gives birth to posthumous triplets of Arthur!:

Catherine "The Lucky" of Aragon, Queen Mother of England (1485-1550) M. Arthur, Prince of Wales (1486-1502), had issue

1. King Arthur I of England (1503-1557) M. Isabella of Portugal (1503-1559), had issue

1 (A). King Arthur II of England (1520-1579) M. Madeleine of France
1 (B). Princess Catherine of England (1522-1580) M. King Philip II of Spain (1522-1590)
1 (C). Princess Elizabeth of England (1525-1580) M. Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian II (1527-1576)

2. Prince Henry, Duke of Somerset (1503-1562) M. Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess of Lisle (1505-1550), had issue

2 (A). Arthur, Duke of Somerset (1523-1569) M. Anne Talbot (1524-1567)
2 (B). Henry, Earl of Wessex (1526-1550) M. Gertrude Manners (1525-1569)
2 (C). Lady Elizabeth of Somerset (1527-1590) M. Duke Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy (1528-1580)

3. Princess Elizabeth of England (1503-1559) M. Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (1500-1557), had issue

3 (A). Princess Joanna of Spain (1520-1570) M. Duke Francis III of Brittany (1518-1540)
3 (B). King Philip II of Spain (1522-1590) M. Princess Catherine of England (1522-1580) and Archduchess Anna of Austria (1528-1591)
3 (C). Princess Isabella (1528-1579) M. King Joao Manuel of Portugal (1529-1589)


...

So the scenario is that Arthur consummates his marriage with Catherine and in 1503 Catherine delivers posthumous triplets. The split between Spain and the HRE he still happens and I pushed Joao Manuel's birthday to be 3 years earlier so he can marry Princess Isabella. Madeleine of France is married to Arthur for an alliance. Might make this into a timeline some day. Also sneaky little update, I am making this into a timeline!
 
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HortenseMancini

HortenseMancini

RedKing said:
Here's a somewhat unlikely one where Catherine gives birth to posthumous triplets of Arthur!:

Catherine "The Lucky" of Aragon, Queen Mother of England (1485-1550) M. Arthur, Prince of Wales (1486-1502), had issue

1. King Arthur I of England (1503-1557) M. Isabella of Portugal (1503-1559), had issue

1 (A). King Arthur II of England (1520-1579) M. Madeleine of France
1 (B). Princess Catherine of England (1522-1580) M. King Philip II of Spain (1522-1590)
1 (C). Princess Elizabeth of England (1525-1580) M. Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian II (1527-1576)

2. Prince Henry, Duke of Somerset (1503-1562) M. Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess of Lisle (1505-1550), had issue

2 (A). Arthur, Duke of Somerset (1523-1569) M. Anne Talbot (1524-1567)
2 (B). Henry, Earl of Wessex (1526-1550) M. Gertrude Manners (1525-1569)
2 (C). Lady Elizabeth of Somerset (1527-1590) M. Duke Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy (1528-1580)

3. Princess Elizabeth of England (1503-1559) M. Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (1500-1557), had issue

3 (A). Princess Joanna of Spain (1520-1570) M. Duke Francis III of Brittany (1518-1540)
3 (B). King Philip II of Spain (1522-1590) M. Princess Catherine of England (1522-1580) and Arcduchess Anna of Austria (1528-1591)
3 (C). Princess Isabella (1528-1579) M. King Joao Manuel of Portugal (1529-1589)


...

So the scenario is that Arthur consummates his marriage with Catherine and in 1503 Catherine delivers posthumous triplets. The split between Spain and the HRE he still happens and I pushed Joao Manuel's birthday to be 3 years earlier so he can marry Princess Isabella. Madeleine of France is married to Arthur for an alliance. Might make this into a timeline some day.
Click to expand...
Triplets is indeed unlikely but multiple births clearly ran in Catherine's family (both her mom and one of her nieces had twins) so it's probably not as unlikely as it could otherwise be.
 
RedKing

RedKing

curlyhairedhippie said:
Triplets is indeed unlikely but multiple births clearly ran in Catherine's family (both her mom and one of her nieces had twins) so it's probably not as unlikely as it could otherwise be.
Click to expand...
True, I knew her Mother had twins though never realised her nieces did. It's also not impossible (If I am correct there were a few cases of quadruplets surviving) and I thought it would be a unique way to make Catherine be more successful in England.
 
HortenseMancini

HortenseMancini

RedKing said:
True, I knew her Mother had twins though never realised her nieces did. It's also not impossible (If I am correct there were a few cases of quadruplets surviving) and I thought it would be a unique way to make Catherine be more successful in England.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. If catherine can deliver an heir, a spare, and a bonny princess to boot then she's set.
 
RedKing

RedKing

curlyhairedhippie said:
Absolutely. If catherine can deliver an heir, a spare, and a bonny princess to boot then she's set.
Click to expand...
She also probably raises Elizabeth, influences her sons and gets a key role in the Regency. She'd also be secure in every possible way (no way Henry VII would treat her like he did in otl if she can provide 2 sons to help secure the succession). Isabella probably enjoys her daughters good fortunes too.
 
HortenseMancini

HortenseMancini

RedKing said:
I see, though I feel like she’d probably nudge her way in there.
Click to expand...
She may try to wield some sort of power...maybe Ferdinand still appoints her as his ambassador? Whatever influence she does have will be of the ‘soft’ kind as it’s pretty likely that she is in charge of at least lady Elizabeth’s upbringing and I would expect that she is permitted frequent visitations with her sons.
 
RedKing

RedKing

curlyhairedhippie said:
She may try to wield some sort of power...maybe Ferdinand still appoints her as his ambassador? Whatever influence she does have will be of the ‘soft’ kind as it’s pretty likely that she is in charge of at least lady Elizabeth’s upbringing and I would expect that she is permitted frequent visitations with her sons.
Click to expand...
I see, maybe she gets a ceremonial advisory role?
 
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