TL-191 Uniform, weapons and equipment of the Secondary Combatants.

[Soundwave3591]

That's a little tricky, Germany was allied to the US during the Great War and therefore at war with Mexico but they would be buying the guns from Switzerland, however in TL-191 the guns might have been manufactured in the CSA instead of Switzerland, in which case no they (Germany)would not be able to purchase the Mandragons.

Another interesting gun question, was the Garand M1 butterflied in TL-191? If not would Germany be interested or inspired by the M1?

there's no mention of the US designing an auto-rifle ala the Garand: we do see the Thompson and BAR mentioned, but the commentary usually has US troops picking up Tredegars and Confederate SMG's.
Indeed, the US paratroops who drop on Lookout Mountain and Missionary Ridge are armed with Tredegar auto-rifles.

 

[cortz#9]

there's no mention of the US designing an auto-rifle ala the Garand: we do see the Thompson and BAR mentioned, but the commentary usually has US troops picking up Tredegars and Confederate SMG's.
Indeed, the US paratroops who drop on Lookout Mountain and Missionary Ridge are armed with Tredegar auto-rifles.

It might have been more interesting if Turtledove had the CS make and use the Mandragon instead of the Tredagar.

 

[Soundwave3591]

It might have been more interesting if Turtledove had the CS make and use the Mandragon instead of the Tredagar.

the Mondragon is certainly an advanced weapon for its period, but it'd be 30+ years old by the Second Great War, meaning there would be plenty of time for an improved weapon to supersede it. Besides that, the Mondragon was known to be rather fiddly, had poor accuracy and required frequent maintenance to keep operational, with little tolerance for dirt or poor-quality ammunition (both readily found in wartime)

 

[cortz#9]

the Mondragon is certainly an advanced weapon for its period, but it'd be 30+ years old by the Second Great War, meaning there would be plenty of time for an improved weapon to supersede it. Besides that, the Mondragon was known to be rather fiddly, had poor accuracy and required frequent maintenance to keep operational, with little tolerance for dirt or poor-quality ammunition (both readily found in wartime)

But in an alternate timeline the CSA might have adopted it before the first Great War and then made improvements to it and then further refined by the second.

 

[Soundwave3591]

But in an alternate timeline the CSA might have adopted it before the first Great War and then made improvements to it and then further refined by the second.

which would give them something like the Tredegar ^^: it certainly wouldn't be the same Mondragon.

 

[S. Marlowski]

Speaking of the Tredegar Rifle, the Russians would have this thing for sure.

The Simonov AVS-36 Rilfe, which has full-auto capability as well being semi-auto. The Russians would also have access to the Tokarev SVT-38/40 rifles as well as the Fedorov Avtomat Rifle.

 

[S. Marlowski]

A Lohner-Werke LW. 175C-2 fighter bomber from the 12th Austrian Fighter Squadron in Northern Ukraine, circa 1943. The LW. 175 was an Austro-Hungarian development of the Curtiss Model 75 fighter, in which it would feature a longer and larger tail section, a DB-601 engine, two MG. 1938 15mm machine-guns in the nose, and two 7.92mm MG. 1934 machine-guns in the wings, the provision to carry four 100 lbs bombs under the wings and a single 250 lb bomb under the fuselage. During it's production run from 1942 to late 1944, a total of 389 airframes would be built, in which a small number would serve in the Polish and Bulgarian Air Forces.

A Curtiss Model 75O Hawk of the Ottoman 20th Pursuit Squadron based in Istanbul, circa 1941. A total of 210 Hawk 75O fighters would be built and delivered to the Ottoman Air Force, thus making it the numerous modern fighter in Ottoman possession at the time of their entry into the war. This model would be armed with a single Colt 7.92mm and 12.7mm machine-guns in the nose with an additional four Colt 8mm machine-guns in the wings.

 

[S. Marlowski]

I can see this, the Sten MK.5, fitting well as the standard British SMG during the Second Great War.

 

[BigAbeRangel]

Despite officially being a neutral nation during the Second Great War, the Beretta Company from the Kingdom of Italy none the less had sold large numbers of it's Moschetto Automatico Beretta Modello 1938 or just the MAB 38 submachine-gun to both the French and British Armies in which they prove popular with the soldiers of those respective armies as well as German soldiers who had captured them. Other Second Great War era users of the type included Romania, Argentina, Persia, Morocco, Japan (who've even licensed produced the weapon as the Type 2) as well as the Italian Armed Forces who would use the MAB 38 up until it's replacement by the MAB 57 Assault Carbine in the late 1950s as a frontline weapon.

Nice. Tough Italy is neutral ITTL, this will draw the ire of both Germany and Austria-Hungary they're both technically allies with each by the Triple (later Quadruple ITTL) Alliance. Said Alliance was technically a defensive alliance and Italy became less and less obligated to join over time. As it is the case in TL-191, Germany, Austria-Hungary and its client states are attacked first but Italy never joins their side during GW2; Romania doesn't as well.

 

[Soundwave3591]

I can see this, the Sten MK.5, fitting well as the standard British SMG during the Second Great War.

honestly? I can't.

the Sten was designed to be as simple and as cheap as possible, to be churned out by the carload to fulfill the UK's post-Dunkirk need for SMG's. The weapon was almost universally reviled by British troops for its crudeness and cheap construction.

given that the UK was building up for war longer in this timeline, they'd likely have put some proper developmental time into an SMG. At the very least, they'd have something more refined than the Sten, something like the Sterling, for example (which WAS tested in 1944 IRL)

alternatively, perhaps the Owen Gun or something like it might be developed.

 

[cortz#9]

I can see this, the Sten MK.5, fitting well as the standard British SMG during the Second Great War.

honestly? I can't.

the Sten was designed to be as simple and as cheap as possible, to be churned out by the carload to fulfill the UK's post-Dunkirk need for SMG's. The weapon was almost universally reviled by British troops for its crudeness and cheap construction.

given that the UK was building up for war longer in this timeline, they'd likely have put some proper developmental time into an SMG. At the very least, they'd have something more refined than the Sten, something like the Sterling, for example (which WAS tested in 1944 IRL)

View attachment 624287


alternatively, perhaps the Owen Gun or something like it might be developed.

View attachment 624288

How about this Lanchester based design from 1941?

It's similar to the Sterling and I'm surprised it was passed over for the Sten, was probably more expensive and time consuming to mass produce.

 

[rvbomally]

My vote goes to the Sterling, if only because it was the base for stormtrooper blasters in the Star Wars films and there's something poetic about that.

 

[S. Marlowski]

honestly? I can't.

the Sten was designed to be as simple and as cheap as possible, to be churned out by the carload to fulfill the UK's post-Dunkirk need for SMG's. The weapon was almost universally reviled by British troops for its crudeness and cheap construction.

given that the UK was building up for war longer in this timeline, they'd likely have put some proper developmental time into an SMG. At the very least, they'd have something more refined than the Sten, something like the Sterling, for example (which WAS tested in 1944 IRL)

View attachment 624287


alternatively, perhaps the Owen Gun or something like it might be developed.

View attachment 624288

Good argument against my point.

 

[cortz#9]

Lanchester Mk. II.

 

[Sierra]

Good argument against my point.

The Sten COULD however work as a Confederate, or even Mormon weapon. That sort of cheap, mass producible thing that any old machinist can make in his garage would be exactly the sort of thing they would dream up.

 

[S. Marlowski]

I have found some pictures of the Domician Republic Army from OTL, which from the looks of them, leaves to me to surmise that the Dominican Republic would've modeled their military's uniforms and kit after those from the Confederate States Armed Forces, and probably used Confederate pattern weapons.

 

[S. Marlowski]

Type 13 Standard Barrel Hei-To (十三の式標準バレルヘ平東/13-Shiki Hyōjun Bareru Heitō)

The Type 13 was one of the first Japanese barrels to enter service in the Post-War period, serving with the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy from 1953 to 1973 as well as Japan's allied nations in the East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere until the early 2000s. The vehicle would be armed with a 90mm Type 12 main gun along with a 7.7mm Type-97 co-axial machine-gun and a 12.7mm Ho-103 heavy machine-gun mounted on the roof.

Type 25 Standard Barrel Ryu-Ni (二十五式標準バレルリュウニ/25-Shiki Hyōjun Bareru Ryuni)

Developed in the early 1960s as a counter to newer American and German designs, the Type 25 Ryu-Ni would serve the Imperial Japanese Military as their Primary Standard Barrel from 1965 until the mid 2000s. In addition, many of Japan's allies and client states would be equipped with this tank, with several of them still operating the type as of 2021. The vehicle would come equipped with a 110mm Type 22 Main Gun, a co-axial Type-17 machine-gun, and a roof mounted Ho-103 12.7mm machine-gun. It would also be equipped with a large searchlight, NBC protection, a smoke generator, night vision sights, and was even one of the first Japanese Barrels to use a laser rangefinder starting in the 1970s. One of the more distinctive features of the design was it's hydropneumatic system, which enabled the barrel to have it's suspension adjusted in rough terrain.

 

[S. Marlowski]

I had just found this, a Lorraine 37L with a 17 Pounder, which I can certainly see this as a French Barrel Hunter.

 

[BigAbeRangel]

Just came across this video today and it got me wondering: With Japan winning their side of the SGW, how likely would this happen during the war or in the post war, if not at all?

 

[rvbomally]

I could see that technology failing, but inspiring the development of SLBMs.