Map Thread XX

Status
Not open for further replies.
Also, why is Anatolia not coloured in the same way as Rumelia? Is there an explanation?
Spain got Genoa and Corsica?

Because it is in Asia and not in Europe. Many maps use the same technique of only colouring in the continent the map is centered on while only having coloured outlines on the other continents.

No, if you look closely you can see the shade of yellow is slightly different and more clearly that there is a text saying "Republic of Genoa" in French.
 
Because it is in Asia and not in Europe. Many maps use the same technique of only colouring in the continent the map is centered on while only having coloured outlines on the other continents.

No, if you look closely you can see the shade of yellow is slightly different and more clearly that there is a text saying "Republic of Genoa" in French.
I didn't know this process for cards, the first time I saw it.

And who knows? Maybe it's a Spanish "Republic of Genoa"? 🙃
 
dediww3-ddfde85f-a76e-4e51-98c3-dc6b43c682c9.png

Map of Europe in 1780. Posted on my Deviantart.

POD: The young king Louis XV of France dies suddenly in early 1718 - shortly before the start of the OTL War of the Quadruple Alliance and leaving France a succession crisis.

This changes the plans of Spanish king Felipe V, his queen Elisabetta Farnese and his prime minister Alberoni, which was originally to restore Spanish rule in Italy following the losses during the War of the Spanish Succession. Now, Felipe claims the French crown.

This leads to the creation of an alliance of the British, the Dutch, the Savoyans, and Holy Roman Emperor Karl VI who all support Louis XV's regent Philippe II of Orléans's claim to the French throne. The allies do not want the Spanish back in Italy and are all terrified at the idea of a united Bourbon monarchy of France and Spain. Unfortunately for the allies, the corrupt Philippe is unpopular with the French nobility and the Church, and the OTL conspiracy led by Prince of Cellamare against Philippe is never discovered. Therefore, the conspiracy succeeds in a coup which causes Philippe and some of his supporters to flee the country.

The French welcome Felipe V of Spain and his army enthusiastically and he is crowned king Philippe VII of France. France therefore leaves the Quadruple Alliance which means the allies are left without the might of France to contain Spanish Bourbon ambitions.

1720. The war goes quite well for the Franco-Spanish Bourbon alliance. The Spanish recapture Sardinia (already taken in 1717), Sicily, Naples, Gibraltar, and some other smaller areas. France takes the Austrian Netherlands.

It's not completely successful for the Bourbons, though. Milan remains under Habsburg control. The Bourbon-supported Jacobite rising failed. The allies are also able to negotiate a peace to preserve the balance of power and ensure that the Bourbon monarchy isn't formed. Felipe V/Philippe VII must abdicate the Spanish throne for his son Luis (once Luis dies in 1724, then Felipe's third son Carlos becomes king). Felipe V/Philippe VII can keep his French crown, but after his death, his second son Ferdinand becomes the French king. Though France and Spain never unite, the two will remain very close allies.

1780. 60 years have passed, but most of the same European wars of OTL still occur, though the butterflies cause some significant changes.

For one, in the Seven Years' War analogue, Prussia is humiliatingly defeated by the Austro-Russian alliance. Austria retakes Silesia and the Russians take East Prussia (later exchanged to Poland for Courland and Livonia) leaving Brandenburg as the remnant of once-mighty Prussia. Frederick the Great will be known as 'Frederick the Bold' like the Burgundian duke before him - killed in his prime on the field of battle.

The Polish partitions will also never happen because there isn't a strong Prussia to balance Russia and Austria (who is the undisputed power of the HRE). Poland-Lithuania, surprisingly, begins to develop closer relations with the Ottomans, but this is because both are surrounded by the increasingly powerful Russians and Austrians.

Any comments on the map or scenario are appreciated!
I half feel the Ottomans might try going for giving or selling Jedisan to the Poles, though I suppose if they are close here there might already be a lot of economic development around there. If only the map shouted a bit more to the east, we could see if there are enough Circassian and Georgian states to act as a buffer between the Ottomans and Russians. Either way, I suspect the Turks would want to protect their Wuropean holdings above all, if only because of all the taxes and labor they got from it. Though losing Georgia and the related areas for recruiting or slaving would mean they would need to find alternative sources of manpower for the Mamelukes in Egypt. Did Savoy annex Nice here? If not, does Nice have the entire coast (I know Nice used to be three times as large as it is now coastline wise) or do the Savoyards have a bit? I think they had some an exclave surrounded by Genoan land, but- hmmmm. Actually, how is Genoa here? Economically strong? Manage to hold down and make a profit off of Corsica?
--THE DISSOLUTION OF THE UNITED STATES--
Few things in history were so impacting as the decay and ultimate death of the United States of America, consummate by 1992.
To shorten the story, let's go to the 70's, or as many Americans call it, the Lost Decade. In a frenetic succession of events, the increasingly corrupt Nixon administration started falling apart after the Watergate scandal, things only got worst when Vice President Agnew refused to step down even with scandals swallowing him. A backstage compromise was accepted, Agnew would resign and be forgiven by Nixon, who would fight to keep his head. With the old VP out (but all the scandals still in), the search for a new one started, but the President wanted to do a show of force with the congress and would delay as much as possible the nomination of the new Vice President, he tried to do this with rivers of money and bribes flowing to the pockets of legislators, but it ultimately fail. Nixon ran to appoint Gerald Ford and then resigned one day before the Senate vote. The worst crisis in a very long time was getting started in America.
Ford was to many the epitome of the crisis. An unelected man in the highest post of the nation, who would in a few weeks nominate a VP equally unelected. Democracy seemed no more than a bad joke. Massive protests took the streets, masses of people showed their dissatisfaction not only with politics, but with the economy too, as the United States was going down since the 1973 oil shock. Feeling the pressure, the president released new economic measures to at least stop the crisis getting worst and for everybody surprise, it worked, artificially, as it would become clear in a few years but it worked. Enjoying a modest, but steady, high in popularity, Ford could now focus in his reelection.
As 1976 came, the Democratic Party was a mess. No one seemed to have such a national appeal to unify the party and no new name had the chance to arise, as in the case of former Georgia Governor Jimmy Carter who got fearful after polls showed that his name recognition was as low as 2%, he then decided to wait and run for the Senate, an election he easily won in 1980 with 60% of the vote. With the clock ticking two candidates started gaining momentum: Jerry Brown, governor of California, and George Wallace, governor of Alabama. After a highly divided primary the decision was left to the DNC which picked Brown to be it's face in the ballots. In a revival of 1968, Wallace decided to run an independent campaign.
Ford's nomination was a hard task for the Republican Party to achieve, as another California governor also wanted to be president (Ronald Reagan), his VP pick was even more eventful, as it took an herculean effort of the president to convince Nelson Rockefeller to continue in the administration and run for the post he was never elected. The effort however, was in vain, as on October 1, 1976, the Vice President was killed in a campaign event in Pittsburgh. The action was directed to President Ford but missed it's target, creating a political phenomenon that would define history. The Ford campaign was suffering the effect of people discovering that the 1975 economic relief was artificial and his unpopularity was getting higher and higher, but after the Rockefeller murder the game soon changed. Apart from the voting intention boom because of the sentimental results of the attack on the VP, Ford started blaming the whole thing (without any consistent proof) on the radical left. In fact since the Nixon years leftists where getting more and more organized and since the start of the crisis started performing attacks on many cities, especially in the South and the Midwest. Ford's tough words however only made them grow stronger.
With both Ford and Wallace blaming all the countries problems on the leftists and associating Jerry Brown with the worst of it, the election only got better and better for the Republican. Even with this whole situation, Brown managed to win in the popular vote. It wasn't enough to take the presidency as Ford had won enough states to continue to be the President of the United States.
The second term however already started almost as bad as the first. Ford promised in his campaign that he would stop interfering in economy and let the market take the reins, but with a new crisis on the horizon and a spike on unemployment, the promise was getting harder to keep. The President spent almost half of his second term trying to equilibrate between his fragile Congress base, the market and the increasingly angry population, until the Iranians made him fell from his already precarious balance.
The 1979 Iranian Revolution and the subsequent second oil shock further disestabilized the US and helped the USSR, which had it's economy growing nonstop since the start of the decade. Another economic crisis in less than 10 years would be hard for America to overcome, but it would get worse. Still in 1979, Saudi Arabia would fall to Revolution too and the growing regional pressure would torn Iraq apart in a bitter civil war. Suddenly, the three main American partners in the Middle East were no more.
The start of the 1980's recession sent shock waves trough the world. In Chile, a renewed Civil War managed to oust and hang Augusto Pinochet and declare the second Socialist Revolution in the Americas. In Colombia, the FARC laid siege to Bogotá for more than a month before the government could repel the rebels. In the United States, Gerald Ford was the only man to blame, the most unpopular president in history.
Political violence in the country was in an all time high, the Black Panther Party was booming in membership and actions (and also getting boomed by the government's brutal repression), the communists and socialists formed armed cells all over the country and were surprisingly getting more and more support in rural areas. Right-wing groups also started forming their own little militias to patrol against the red specter and the black people, battles between political enemies were widespread across the nation, getting to the point to raise concerns among the NATO countries.
The tension got even worst because 1980 was an election year and a very unusual one. Various third parties campaigned to replace the Democratic-Republican order and were boosted by desertions of both sides, but especially from the Republicans, a party in a moral and leadership crisis for almost a decade now. The unprecedented elections had a very predictable result; after months of voter suppression (especially in Black plurality areas after the rise of the BPP), gerrymandering and political repression, Ronald Reagan was the next president. But he was elected in a very strange manner. Because of the wide array of competitive candidates, Reagan won with 32% of the popular vote, the smallest percentage of a winner since John Quincy Adams, but also because of the many candidates, the vote spoiling went on all ways but it ended benefiting the Californian as he managed to get various small wins and consolidate a 271 win in the Electoral College. Ultimately, 5 candidates received electoral college votes, a sign of the times for the country.
As the new President was inaugurated, protests and rebellions took the country denouncing the third consecutive president not elected by the majority of the people. Reagan promised to handle the issues with an iron hand, which he did. Hundreds of protesters were arrested or died in clashes with the police, a new red scare took control of the discourse and repression to the Black Panthers, socialists and communists organizations became commonplace in the news. It also didn't help that the economic crisis hadn't gone anywhere and was only getting worse. One of his fist actions as President was to withdraw from Vietnam, a task Ford couldn't complete in his term; the veterans coming home were, however, angry and deluded with the country that sent them to fight a useless war half the world away. Right wing terrorism was increasing by the day and the tensions were going to heights never reached.
In 1983, Reagan was assassinated in a domestic attack in New York. While the country celebrated the presidential death, the political class looked terrified to their destiny. Violent clashes between right wing militias (with the help of white supremacists) and the Black Panther Party (with the help of the communists) turned into a huge domestic battle near Atlanta, to which the President George Bush responded by sending National Guards reinforcement to Georgia.
By the 1984 elections, the hated incumbent once again faced a large swath of opponents that spoiled the vote of each other, but this time the pressure was just too big for the Republicans to handle and the party finished the elections in a distant fourth. In the House contingent election, Ted Kennedy is selected as the President that would face the worst political situation since Lincoln.
Kennedy would launch a wild plan of modernization to appease the tensions, it would basically form a new constitutional convention to "reform" some outdated parts of the text. His main proposals were abolishing the Electoral College, include explicit protections to minorities and enlarge the Federal Government's powers in relation to the states (and the economy, but this is not so much related to the constitution) to better manage times of great crisis. Initially he got a good bit of support from the Congress and the population, only finding resistance in far right groups (that were loud), but his inability to conduct the process in a quick and multi-partisan manner made the proposals lose more and more appeal to all groups interested. After much delay the opposition parties jumped from the reformation idea and started attacking the president day and night, the right wing and white supremacists militias felt emboldened to conduct activities with no shame to hide, promoting massacres of Blacks, presumed socialists, natives, homosexuals, non Christians and other minorities. The labor unions and the organized left demanded from the President an adequate response, but as it failed to come, they turned to radicalization once and for all. The President's support base evaporated.
Low level fighting quickly became a grave civil conflict that ravaged trough the country with support of governors, senators and representatives from all sides. Armies and militias formed and consolidated power bases and fought against each other in their "borders". Speaking of which, in the borders of the United States the situation escalated to a point were Canada and Mexico demanded the government to have a strong action or they would close all their land connections to the country. It would be ,however, an useless threat as soon after this Mexico would fall to a communist revolution, the same happening in France, Italy, Turkey, Spain, Greece, Portugal, etc. NATO was no more than a shadow of it's former self, now only hold together by Canada and the UK, also facing extreme political tensions.
Kennedy's inability to handle the seemingly close end of the Union provoked the more reactionaries Members of Congress to stage a coup against the president, but it ultimately failed by the ready action of the New York governor Mario Cuomo, who send army divisions (even if this was not even remotely in his capacities as governor) to Washington to protect the government. Now the President was politically hostage to the Governor. The duke controlled the emperor.
By this time, the divisions of the Second American Civil War were already clear, only having some focus of fighting in the border of Canada, Mexico, the Deep South and the Mid Atlantic regions.
In 1984 it was unclear whether elections would still be held or not. The President and most of the political class tried to force it to happen at all costs, but political violence made it impossible for it to be realized without major concerns about everything surrounding the electoral process and the safety of the voting population, so the elections were indefinitely postponed. The fall was now inevitable. Texas was the first state to declare secession, in October 23rd, followed by New Mexico, Oklahoma and Arkansas. The Kennedy government at first stayed paralyzed, as the Texan secessionist movement was already well articulated for some time, but such a large and crucial part of the Union couldn't go away like that, it had to be a fight. In November 7th federal troops arrived in the self proclaimed Republic of Texas border around Memphis and the fight begun. Scenes of brutal savagery and death of hundreds of "Americans" in the Battle of Memphis shocked the country and sent it into a spiral of violence. Soon after California and Nevada declared their independence, as the New England states, the Communists controlled regions (with good overflows of soviet financial help) expelled federal troops still loyal to the Washington government and set up their own governments with regional characteristics. In the South, the communists formed a "Farmer-Labor" alliance (with the help of the Black Panthers) to bloodbath the white supremacists and walk all the way to Washington, DC. As they got near the forces of the north managed to expel them back to the Georgia-Carolinas limits, but at the cost of the end of the Cuomo-Kennedy "partnership", as they disagreed on which actions to take, eventually culminating in New York seceding from the Union and advancing with it's army through nearby regions. As the chaos continued, Canada and Mexico invaded the former giant to grab some parts of its deceased body; Mexico forced the Texan forces all the way up the Nueces river annexing the occupied land and also advanced in South Arizona, where a standstill with the capitalist Californian Republic made they reach a deal in which neither county would annex the area, but rather keep two puppet states in the border; and Canada would invade a great part of the North thinking about more natural resources (gas) but getting a huge problem that would precipitate the ongoing Canadian Civil War.
Finally, in July 4th 1985, the President Ted Kennedy, the Vice President Gary Hart and their cabinet would resign, effectively ending the United States of America. The Treaty of Nassau, signed in the Bahamas, formalized the borders and the recognition of all new countries.

Quick explanation:
- The Commonwealths: All of them are communists nations with different governments but united by the Denver Pact;
- The D.R. of the Great Lakes, Cascadia, Colorado and Georgia are the main communists nations in the former US;
- Misssippi is a black majority nation as of 2021, Georgia has a black plurality of about 30% blacks;
- Ohio and Utah are far right countries;
- Texas is not quite far right but almost there (but it's getting better nowadays);
- California, Virginia, New England, the American Union and Florida are all capitalists but with a more social democracy tendency;
- Virginia is the official successor state to the United States, but sometimes the American Union uses this title and symbolism too;
- Arizona is the Californian puppet-buffer state and Gadsden is the Mexican one, the future of this region remains uncertain, but at least a lasting peace has been established there.


NOTE: This is a worst case scenario that I forced to get to the conclusion that I wanted, so yes something are a bit far off, but the main goal, to have the US falling apart in many countries instead of the USSR was reached, so.... I consider this a win.
Also, this is my first map made on Illustrator, any tips and suggestions are appreciated!
HKhRWQ1.jpg

kCwXLfR.jpg
Odd that Virginia abandoned the name of commonwealth here. Also, I see Californians being teased and people claiming they are the only country to have improper English on flag, if everywhere else people call them the Californian Republic.
 
A bit further than the current date in the posts, here's the Senate map of 1944 in Les Années Douces.

1612436997618.png

The Socialists managed to hold all of their seats where they were challenged, and usually widened their victory margins, the real gains were made by the Progressives (although they lost one seat in Kansas, where incumbent Progressive Senator Clyde M. Reed decided not to rerun, and saw Republican Frank Carlson be elected in his stead), chipping away Senators from both Democratic and Republican states.

The Democratic party loses several Northern Senate seats as they expected, but also loses several seats in the South: incumbent Florida Senator Claude Pepper decides to run for the Progressive Party, Senator Huey Long and his brother Governor Earl Long declare themselves "Nonpartisans" (there are rumors that they attempted to join the Progressive Party but were not accepted because of both brothers' controversial approach to the uprooting of segregationist organizations), and Huey Long's wife Rose McConnell Long has defeated incumbent Senator Allen J. Ellender, earning the Nonpartisan League of Louisiana the nickname of Conjugual Dictatorship among the detractors of the government.

The Republicans generally have pursued a policy of "two liberalisms", where they support both social liberalism (they're sometimes more vocal about it than even some Progressive Senators) and economic liberalism, considering that the current policies of the Progressive-Socialist ticket do make sense in the current context but that once the means of production have been reorganized in a cohesive way they should be privatized, and for a stronger implication of states in the general recovery process.
 
A sequel to my (way) earlier post about Lombardy-Venetia paving the way for an Italian Confederation in 1848: a pseudo-Wikipedia map of the teams competing in Lombardy's top flight football league, as well as the internal borders of the country.

1e1tmse0ggf61.png

Backstory: in our world, association football is by far the most popular sport in Italy; however, in this world where Germany and Italy were unified by democratic and federalist forces in 1848, the "beautiful game" is merely one of the most popular sports.

That said, it's nonetheless the most popular sport in some of the constituent states of the Italian Confederation, for a wide variety of reasons; Lombardy is one of them, despite bordering the Emilian and Savoyard states, in which the ancient pastime of pallone col bracciale dominates, as well as the Venetian state, where lippa is dangerously close to being a religion.

While only the Milanese teams have been able to win the Confederation-wide Serie A, in several occasions - being just as successful on the national, European and world stage as the feared southern teams - the Lombard state championship is nonetheless quite balanced, with the rivalries between Atalanta and Brescia as well as between Legnano and Pro Patria having been the fuel for many a championship victory.
 
A sequel to my (way) earlier post about Lombardy-Venetia paving the way for an Italian Confederation in 1848: a pseudo-Wikipedia map of the teams competing in Lombardy's top flight football league, as well as the internal borders of the country.

1e1tmse0ggf61.png

Backstory: in our world, association football is by far the most popular sport in Italy; however, in this world where Germany and Italy were unified by democratic and federalist forces in 1848, the "beautiful game" is merely one of the most popular sports.

That said, it's nonetheless the most popular sport in some of the constituent states of the Italian Confederation, for a wide variety of reasons; Lombardy is one of them, despite bordering the Emilian and Savoyard states, in which the ancient pastime of pallone col bracciale dominates, as well as the Venetian state, where lippa is dangerously close to being a religion.

While only the Milanese teams have been able to win the Confederation-wide Serie A, in several occasions - being just as successful on the national, European and world stage as the feared southern teams - the Lombard state championship is nonetheless quite balanced, with the rivalries between Atalanta and Brescia as well as between Legnano and Pro Patria having been the fuel for many a championship victory.

Well...it's really good, but lack the best team ever: La Longobarda naturally with Oronzo Canà as coach
 
Well...it's really good, but lack the best team ever: La Longobarda naturally with Oronzo Canà as coach
I used real world teams (including a couple dead ones that nonetheless played in Serie A) but the Longobarda is probably lurking in the lower leagues, waiting to rise again. :p
 
Well, everyone has to do a TL 191 map at some point...this is a WIP of my cover. Basically just Africa and the key are left, and I already know how the timeline looks. This 191 is a bit more realistic than Turtledove's (and I understand he was writing his for literary appeal), and involves 1) more butterflies (this will become more apparent when the colonies are done), and 2) the USA manhandling the Confederacy and Canada during the Great War, because really the CSA is not going to win against a per capita wealthier nation that is 3x as large as it (and that's before we get into the Black rebellions bound to happen once the Union starts winning.) In this cover, Britain and France don't really have anything against the Union, and are more interested in fending off Germany anyways, and thus are willing to accept the loss of Canada if it means peace and normalization of relations.

So the Union won, and created a colossus spanning across America. New Homestead Acts facilitated American settlement throughout Western Canada (though there's probably still some territories with more bears than humans.) But all good things have to come to an end, and about 40 years later, the Americans got tired of dealing with constant Rebel and Canadian agitation, and let them go free. They took their pound of flesh though, and only jettisoned the most populous areas, as well as effecting a racial partition in the CSA.

Meanwhile in Europe, the Great War lasted 6 years, and ended in an Entente Victory (cause CP Victories are cliches at this point). Russia avoided the Revolution, but then another round of socialist agitation arrived 10 years later when a recession happened. A coalition regime of Kadets and archconservatives held the line again (with Franco-British-American help), but not before Japan won another Russo-Japanese War. Germany was basically finished on the geopolitical stage, and couldn't take any advantage of events.

My 191 Rendition.png
 
Last edited:
@CastilloVerde the map is gorgeous, just gorgeous, and the scenario is interesting, detailed, and plausible as well. How do these changes in Europe affect the western hemisphere? This century millions of square miles of claims, and much less actually administered territory, switched hands a lot. Was any new world land involved in the peace talks? Is Spain's hold on and reputation in its colonies better with this victory and the alliance with France; similarly does France have better luck holding on and growing its colonies?
Thank you very much! I appreciate your comment.

No new world land was involved in the peace talks of the French succession war apart from a few small French Caribbean islands going to Britain in exchange for the British accepting French control over the austrian Netherlands. Much of the same colonial wars between France-Spain and Britain during the next few decades proceeds similarly to OTL. But in the ATL Seven Years' War, a stronger Franco-Spanish alliance and Prussia's early defeat doesn't allow Britain to conquer all of New France, India, and the Spanish Cuba and Philippines. Spain's colonial reputation is also much better than OTL. And France by 1780 still has New France, Louisiana and more land in India. Though this means that French and British colonial wars will continue for longer.
A gorgeous map, excellent work!

My Anglo sensibilities are offended by it being in French though. :p
Thank you!
You have done an incredible job! And the map is French which is quite rare here.
Very interesting scenario that you developed, even though I think that France would have had a harder time expanding into the Spanish Netherlands during the War of the French Succession (the sufferings of the wars of Louis XIV were being felt in France at that time).
I would be curious to know what the rest of the world looks like, better colonial empires for Madrid and Paris?
Otherwise to nitpick I find the colours of Brandenburg and Austria too close, at first glance I thought Prussia had Bohemia. 🧐
Also, why is Anatolia not coloured in the same way as Rumelia? Is there an explanation?
Spain got Genoa and Corsica?
Is Hanover in personal union with England or not?
There are the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution in this universe ?
How long did it take you to make this map? And with which software?
Congratulations again to you! 🙂
Thank you very much!

I think you're right that France would have a hard time expanding into the Netherlands, but it's certainly possible as the French captured the Austrian Netherlands in OTL during the War of the Austrian Succession.

As for the colonies, by 1780, Spain and especially France have better colonial empires compared to OTL. A stronger Franco-Spanish alliance and earlier end to the Seven Years' War analogue means that Britain never conquered all of New France, French India, and the Spanish Cuba and Philippines during the war, which means peace negotiations here are more to France and Spain's liking compared to OTL. An interesting divergence is that the American war of Independence doesn't occur (or is delayed for some time outside the timeframe of the scenario) because the French still have large territory in North America which makes rebellion unlikely.

Thank you for the nitpick. I suppose I could have made Brandenburg more of a 'Prussian grey' to differentiate it from Austria. Hanover is still in personal union with England but Parliament doesn't like it because it brings too much involvement with the continent. The Industrial Revolution still starts in Britain, though will spread to France soon.

The map took me much longer than I should have but I don't know exactly how long I worked on it. I started it in November 2019 XD and sometimes many weeks and months pass without any work done on the map. I used Inkscape for everything except the terrain texture, which was done in Gimp.

Thank you again!
Because it is in Asia and not in Europe. Many maps use the same technique of only colouring in the continent the map is centered on while only having coloured outlines on the other continents.

No, if you look closely you can see the shade of yellow is slightly different and more clearly that there is a text saying "Republic of Genoa" in French.
Yes, this is all correct.
I half feel the Ottomans might try going for giving or selling Jedisan to the Poles, though I suppose if they are close here there might already be a lot of economic development around there. If only the map shouted a bit more to the east, we could see if there are enough Circassian and Georgian states to act as a buffer between the Ottomans and Russians. Either way, I suspect the Turks would want to protect their Wuropean holdings above all, if only because of all the taxes and labor they got from it. Though losing Georgia and the related areas for recruiting or slaving would mean they would need to find alternative sources of manpower for the Mamelukes in Egypt. Did Savoy annex Nice here? If not, does Nice have the entire coast (I know Nice used to be three times as large as it is now coastline wise) or do the Savoyards have a bit? I think they had some an exclave surrounded by Genoan land, but- hmmmm. Actually, how is Genoa here? Economically strong? Manage to hold down and make a profit off of Corsica?
Interesting thoughts. I think you're correct on the Ottomans. Georgia and a few other Caucasus states still exist, though it won't be long for the Russians to begin to want to expand here. France still has Nice. Genoa, while independent, is more or less a puppet of France and Spain. Genoa still has Corsica due to French and Spanish help during the Corsican rebellion and neither power wanted the other to take it from Genoa.
 
dediww3-ddfde85f-a76e-4e51-98c3-dc6b43c682c9.png

Map of Europe in 1780. Posted on my Deviantart.

POD: The young king Louis XV of France dies suddenly in early 1718 - shortly before the start of the OTL War of the Quadruple Alliance and leaving France a succession crisis.

This changes the plans of Spanish king Felipe V, his queen Elisabetta Farnese and his prime minister Alberoni, which was originally to restore Spanish rule in Italy following the losses during the War of the Spanish Succession. Now, Felipe claims the French crown.

This leads to the creation of an alliance of the British, the Dutch, the Savoyans, and Holy Roman Emperor Karl VI who all support Louis XV's regent Philippe II of Orléans's claim to the French throne. The allies do not want the Spanish back in Italy and are all terrified at the idea of a united Bourbon monarchy of France and Spain. Unfortunately for the allies, the corrupt Philippe is unpopular with the French nobility and the Church, and the OTL conspiracy led by Prince of Cellamare against Philippe is never discovered. Therefore, the conspiracy succeeds in a coup which causes Philippe and some of his supporters to flee the country.

The French welcome Felipe V of Spain and his army enthusiastically and he is crowned king Philippe VII of France. France therefore leaves the Quadruple Alliance which means the allies are left without the might of France to contain Spanish Bourbon ambitions.

1720. The war goes quite well for the Franco-Spanish Bourbon alliance. The Spanish recapture Sardinia (already taken in 1717), Sicily, Naples, Gibraltar, and some other smaller areas. France takes the Austrian Netherlands.

It's not completely successful for the Bourbons, though. Milan remains under Habsburg control. The Bourbon-supported Jacobite rising failed. The allies are also able to negotiate a peace to preserve the balance of power and ensure that the Bourbon monarchy isn't formed. Felipe V/Philippe VII must abdicate the Spanish throne for his son Luis (once Luis dies in 1724, then Felipe's third son Carlos becomes king). Felipe V/Philippe VII can keep his French crown, but after his death, his second son Ferdinand becomes the French king. Though France and Spain never unite, the two will remain very close allies.

1780. 60 years have passed, but most of the same European wars of OTL still occur, though the butterflies cause some significant changes.

For one, in the Seven Years' War analogue, Prussia is humiliatingly defeated by the Austro-Russian alliance. Austria retakes Silesia and the Russians take East Prussia (later exchanged to Poland for Courland and Livonia) leaving Brandenburg as the remnant of once-mighty Prussia. Frederick the Great will be known as 'Frederick the Bold' like the Burgundian duke before him - killed in his prime on the field of battle.

The Polish partitions will also never happen because there isn't a strong Prussia to balance Russia and Austria (who is the undisputed power of the HRE). Poland-Lithuania, surprisingly, begins to develop closer relations with the Ottomans, but this is because both are surrounded by the increasingly powerful Russians and Austrians.

Any comments on the map or scenario are appreciated!
Astonishing work. Truly. Absolutely based map.
I see one little problem, and perhaps I'm misinformed, but I don't think the French would welcome enthusiastically a Spaniard as their King. Like, yeah no, most French people would support the Orleans dynasty rather than the Spanish Bourbons. And if the Spanish Bourbons still manage to overpower the Orleanists by military force, then they'd have to cope with a lot of revolts all over the land, especially in Paris, which will always be in revolt, no matter who wons really. It's just Paris, they're never happy throughout history.
Other than that, will you continue this TL ?
 
A bit further than the current date in the posts, here's the Senate map of 1944 in Les Années Douces.

View attachment 622235
The Socialists managed to hold all of their seats where they were challenged, and usually widened their victory margins, the real gains were made by the Progressives (although they lost one seat in Kansas, where incumbent Progressive Senator Clyde M. Reed decided not to rerun, and saw Republican Frank Carlson be elected in his stead), chipping away Senators from both Democratic and Republican states.

The Democratic party loses several Northern Senate seats as they expected, but also loses several seats in the South: incumbent Florida Senator Claude Pepper decides to run for the Progressive Party, Senator Huey Long and his brother Governor Earl Long declare themselves "Nonpartisans" (there are rumors that they attempted to join the Progressive Party but were not accepted because of both brothers' controversial approach to the uprooting of segregationist organizations), and Huey Long's wife Rose McConnell Long has defeated incumbent Senator Allen J. Ellender, earning the Nonpartisan League of Louisiana the nickname of Conjugual Dictatorship among the detractors of the government.

The Republicans generally have pursued a policy of "two liberalisms", where they support both social liberalism (they're sometimes more vocal about it than even some Progressive Senators) and economic liberalism, considering that the current policies of the Progressive-Socialist ticket do make sense in the current context but that once the means of production have been reorganized in a cohesive way they should be privatized, and for a stronger implication of states in the general recovery process.
Is your America's politics based on Malê Rising's?
 
Astonishing work. Truly. Absolutely based map.
I see one little problem, and perhaps I'm misinformed, but I don't think the French would welcome enthusiastically a Spaniard as their King. Like, yeah no, most French people would support the Orleans dynasty rather than the Spanish Bourbons. And if the Spanish Bourbons still manage to overpower the Orleanists by military force, then they'd have to cope with a lot of revolts all over the land, especially in Paris, which will always be in revolt, no matter who wons really. It's just Paris, they're never happy throughout history.
Other than that, will you continue this TL ?
You might well be right, bar one thing. Felipe V is French.

He is the first Spanish Bourbon and was born Phillip, Duke of Anjou, in Versailles Palace to Louis, Grand Dauphin.
 
Astonishing work. Truly. Absolutely based map.
I see one little problem, and perhaps I'm misinformed, but I don't think the French would welcome enthusiastically a Spaniard as their King. Like, yeah no, most French people would support the Orleans dynasty rather than the Spanish Bourbons. And if the Spanish Bourbons still manage to overpower the Orleanists by military force, then they'd have to cope with a lot of revolts all over the land, especially in Paris, which will always be in revolt, no matter who wons really. It's just Paris, they're never happy throughout history.
Other than that, will you continue this TL ?
Many thanks! I appreciate it.

Felipe V was originally a Frenchman, he was born in France and had the title Duke of Anjou before becoming Spanish king. Also, he was Louis XIV's grandson and was, under French succession law, the closest male relation to succeed Louis XV, meaning his claim to the French crown was much stronger than the Orleanists. Of course, there would probably have been Orleanist revolts supported by the British and Austrians, but these are unlikely to succeed. In OTL, Philippe II of Orléans was unpopular as the Cellamare conspiracy shows.

I don't know if I'll continue the TL, but if someone else wants to write a TL, I'll happily read it.

Edit: partially ninja'd by @Gwrtheyrn Annwn
 
Last edited:
Anyway, I hope you enjoy this piece even though is problematic (to me, at least).

Wonderful! I'd change the name of the Mongolian state: not sure why it would have the (Chinese derived) name of the Chinese dynasty Kublai Khan founded, which fell half a millennium before this map.
Any comments on the map or scenario are appreciated!

I am dazzled.

that's somehow even more cursed.

I was all "hey, pretty cool" until I noticed Africa wasn't flipped east west and that the reversal wasn't a matter of mapping but of geology.

Then the screaming started.
 
Is your America's politics based on Malê Rising's?
That'd require for me to be literate, which I am not, I actually dictate all my messages to a secretary.

More seriously not really, I haven't taken the time to read this TL though it looks terrific. I just go through wikipedia articles and maps and discuss it a bit with my friend Bomster. I based myself off the 1924-8 electoral maps and segregation plus some base assumptions (Progressives ally with socialists because both want systemic change, segregationists know that the Supreme Court will end up stacked with abolitionists so they simply can't muster as much support, the Republicans follow Landon because Hoover made them look like idiots but in the bottom of their hearts there still is a voice begging to balance budgets and not make the government too big)
 
Many thanks! I appreciate it.

Felipe V was originally a Frenchman, he was born in France and had the title Duke of Anjou before becoming Spanish king. Also, he was Louis XIV's grandson and was, under French succession law, the closest male relation to succeed Louis XV, meaning his claim to the French crown was much stronger than the Orleanists. Of course, there would probably have been Orleanist revolts supported by the British and Austrians, but these are unlikely to succeed. In OTL, Philippe II of Orléans was unpopular as the Cellamare conspiracy shows.

I don't know if I'll continue the TL, but if someone else wants to write a TL, I'll happily read it.

Edit: partially ninja'd by @Gwrtheyrn Annwn
I mean, yeah it would work
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top