TL-191: Filling the Gaps
- Thread starter Craigo
- Start date
MaxGerke01
Banned
Maybe Washingtons B Day, Robert E Lees B Day.The day they won the War of Secession,Second Mexican War and Confederate-Spanish War. Of course Christmas and New Years and maybe some sort of Thanksgiving holiday. In Freedomite times perhaps Featherstons birthday and the day they attacked the US (June 22nd) ?
July 4th may have still been celebrated by some for a while perhaps up to the First Great War ?
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What's Josip Broz Tito doing ITTL? Considering he still ends up a POW in Russia during GWI, he'll join the fight alongside the Bolsheviks. But with the Whites and CP winning, his life's bound to be different due to fighting for the Reds and his Communist leanings once the Civil War's over.
Even though the Bolsheviks lose the Russian Civil War, does Communism still gain a following in China? Would a 1st Chinese Civil War occur just as IOTL before being interrupted by war with Japan? IMO, I could see plenty of Bolsheviks fleeing to China to escape being purged by the White Terror and spreading their ideas among the Chinese.
National Holidays of the Confederacy
New Year's Day - January 1st
Robert E. Lee's Birthday - January 19th
Independence Day - February 8th
George Washington's Birthday - February 22nd
Jacob Featherston's Birthday - March 3rd (Instituted in 1935)
Presidential Inauguration Day - March 4th
Freedom Day - March 5th (First instituted under Featherston's order on March 5th 1935)
Good Friday - First Friday of April (A national holiday of the CSA until 1934, when it was demoted to simply a day of observance for Christians)
Easter - First Weekend of April (A national holiday of the CSA until 1934, when it was demoted to simply a day of observance for Christians)
Confederate Memorial Day - April 26th (Later renamed under Featherston's order in 1938 as the Confederate Heroes' Day)
Jefferson Davis' Birthday - June 7th
Columbus Day - October 10th
Victory Day - November 4th
Christmas - December 25th
New Years Eve - December 31st
New Year's Day - January 1st
Robert E. Lee's Birthday - January 19th
Independence Day - February 8th
George Washington's Birthday - February 22nd
Jacob Featherston's Birthday - March 3rd (Instituted in 1935)
Presidential Inauguration Day - March 4th
Freedom Day - March 5th (First instituted under Featherston's order on March 5th 1935)
Good Friday - First Friday of April (A national holiday of the CSA until 1934, when it was demoted to simply a day of observance for Christians)
Easter - First Weekend of April (A national holiday of the CSA until 1934, when it was demoted to simply a day of observance for Christians)
Confederate Memorial Day - April 26th (Later renamed under Featherston's order in 1938 as the Confederate Heroes' Day)
Jefferson Davis' Birthday - June 7th
Columbus Day - October 10th
Victory Day - November 4th
Christmas - December 25th
New Years Eve - December 31st
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MaxGerke01
Banned
So in the Freedomite era March 3-5 was a pretty big celebration- Freedom Fest or Freedom Week or something like that ?
Shouldn't it be February 21-23 (as inauguration day OTL was February 22)? I'm shocked inauguration day in the CSA is still March 4 in the books.
I'm not sure if someone's asked this before in the thread, but what are people's thoughts on horror tropes and creatures in the Confederacy? I'd assume given the levels of parallelism that an analogue of the Universal monsters exist in the Union, so a Florida knockoff would make sense, but vampires and werewolves are pretty central European, you know? I'd imagine voodoo zombies would make it to film earlier, and you could actually see all sorts of black folklore being reinterpreted for horror and characterized as a sinister foreign element shattering the lives of "honorable Confederate protagonists". I'm curious what people's thoughts are.
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Confederate States Navy Order of Battle 1941:
Main Headquarters - Richmond, Virginia
Commander in Chief - Admiral Chester Nimitz
Atlantic Fleet:
Headquarters of the Atlantic Fleet: Charleston
Naval Bases: Norfolk, Charleston, Georgetown, Savannah.
Reserve and Training Bases: St. Augustine, Brunswick.
Commander of Atlantic Naval Operations: Admiral Husband E. Kimmel
Flagship: CSS Jefferson Davis
Independent Naval Forces*:
Battlecruisers: CSS Jefferson Davis, CSS Robert E. Lee and CSS Camp Hill
Heavy Cruisers: CSS Alabama, CSS Tennessee, CSS Texas
Supporting Vessels: 4 Fleet Oil Tankers, 5 Destroyer Tenders, 6 Armed Trawlers, 3 Seaplane Tenders, 2 Repair Ships, 2 Hospital Ships, 3 Storeships, 5 Accommodation Hulks
Naval Squadrons and Flotillas:
1st Cruiser Squadron: CSS Virginia, CSS Richmond.
2nd Cruiser Squadron: CSS Fort Sumter, CSS Havana,
5th Cruiser Squadron: CSS Savannah, CSS Houston.
1st Destroyer Flotilla: CSS George E. Pickett, CSS Judah P. Benjamin, CSS John Y. Beall, CSS William H. Parker, CSS William W.J. Kelly.
2nd Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Raphael Semmes, CSS Anderson, CSS Tucker, CSS William T. Gassell, CSS Thomas E. Hogg.
4th Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Thomas D. Gordon, CSS John P. Edgar, CSS Marcus Slater, CSS Edward G. Burton, CSS Clark.
1st Submarine Flotilla: 7 Submarines, submarine tender CSS Pamlico Sound
2nd Submarine Flotilla: 8 Submarines, submarine Tender CSS Bogue Sound
4th Submarine Flotilla: 8 Submarines, submarine Tender CSS Vermillion Bay
1st Coastal Flotilla: 5 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 2 Netlayers, 4 Minelayers, 5 Minesweepers
2nd Coastal Flotilla: 4 Gunboats, 6 Submarine Chasers, 3 Minelayers, 5 Minesweepers
3rd Coastal Flotilla: 4 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 1 Netlayer, 2 Minelayers, 4 Minesweepers
4th Coastal Flotilla: 2 Gunboats, 5 Submarine Chasers, 2 Minelayers, 6 Minesweepers
6th Coastal Assault Flotilla: 10 MTB Boats
7th Coastal Assault Flotilla: 10 MTB Boats
12th Special Assault Flotilla: CSS Port of Spain, CSS Ares, 6 modified Submarines, submarine tender CSS Bulls Bay.
Caribbean Fleet:
Headquarters of the Caribbean Fleet: Tampa Bay
Naval Bases: Guantanamo Bay, Tampa Bay, Ft. Lauderdale, later Port-au-Prince, Santo Domingo, and Puerto Plata.
Reserve and Training Bases: New Orleans, Miami, Houston, Corpus Christi, Havana, Gulfport
Commander of the Caribbean Fleet: Admiral Robert H. English
Flagship: CSS North Carolina
Supporting Vessels: 4 Submarine Tenders, 3 Fleet Oil Tender, 3 Destroyer Tender, 12 Armed Trawlers, 4 Seaplane Tenders, 3 Repair Ships, 3 Hospital Ships, 2 Storeships, 4 Accommodation Hulks.
Naval Squadrons and Flotillas:
4th Cruiser Squadron: CSS North Carolina, CSS Manassas
6th Cruiser Squadron: CSS Georgia, CSS Little Rock
3rd Destroyer Flotilla: CSS R. L. Walker, CSS Ripley, CSS Franklin Buchanan, CSS McCoy
5th Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Wilson G. Richardson, CSS Horace L. Hunley, CSS Johnson, CSS Bader
6th Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Calhoun Ruggles, CSS Irvine Bulloch, CSS Roper
7th Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Dawson, CSS Clifton R. Beckinridge CSS James R. Randall
3rd Submarine Flotilla: 6 Submarines
5th Submarine Flotilla: 5 Submarines
6th Submarine Flotilla: 5 Submarines
7th Submarine Flotilla: 7 Submarines
1st Training Flotilla: CSS Confederacy, CSS Stonewall Jackson, CSS Memphis
2nd Training Flotilla: 2 Gunboats, 4 Sailing Ships, 2 Trawlers
3rd Training Flotilla: 5 Submarines
1st Transportation Flotilla: 6 Amphibious Assault Ships, 2 Barrel Landing Ships, 2 Landing Craft Tenders
2nd Transportation Flotilla: 7 Amphibious Assault Ships, 3 Barrel Landing Ships, 3 Landing Craft Tenders
5th Coastal Flotilla: 3 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 2 Netlayers, 3 Minelayers, 3 Minesweepers
6th Coastal Flotilla: 3 Gunboats, 2 Submarine Chasers, 2 Minelayers, 4 Minesweepers
7th Coastal Flotilla: 6 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 1 Netlayer, 2 Minelayer, 5 Minesweepers
9th Coastal Flotilla: 3 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 1 Netlayer, 1 Minelayer, 6 Minesweepers
Inland Fleet:
Headquarters of the Inland Fleet: New Orleans
Naval Bases: Baton Rouge, Vicksburg, Memphis
Training Base: New Orleans
Commander of the Inland Fleet: Admiral Charles M. Cooke
Supporting Vessels: 5 Gunboat Tenders, 2 Repair Ships, 4 Hospital Ships, 1 Storeship
Naval Squadrons and Flotillas:
1st Inland Flotilla: 2 River Monitors, 4 Gunboats, 1 River Minelayer, 2 River Minesweepers
2nd Inland Flotilla: 3 River Monitors, 3 Gunboats, 2 River Minesweepers
3rd Inland Flotilla: 2 River Monitors, 3 Gunboats, 1 River Minesweeper
1st River Transportation Flotilla: 2 Ferries, 3 Barges, 1 Gunboat
2nd River Transportation Flotilla: 3 Ferries, 3 Barges
10th Submarine Flotilla: 4 Riverine Submarines
Pacific Fleet:
Headquarters of the Pacific Fleet: Guaymas
Naval Base: Guaymas
Commander of the Pacific Fleet: Middleton S. Elliot
Supporting Vessels, 1 Submarine Tender, 2 Armed Trawlers, 2 Storeships
Naval Squadrons and Flotillas:
8th Coastal Flotilla: 2 Gunboats, 2 Avisos, 3 Submarine Chasers, 1 Minelayer, 3 Minesweepers
10th Coastal Flotilla: 2 Avisos, 2 Submarine Chasers, 4 Minesweepers
11th Coastal Flotilla: 4 MTBs, 1 Gunboat, 1 Aviso, 2 Minelayers, 2 Minesweepers
9th Submarine Flotilla: 3 Submarines
==========================================
* - The Independent Naval Forces are the units that are earmarked for operations with or independent of the Squadrons and Flotillas of the Fleet
Red = Flotilla Leaders
Blue = Squadron and Fleet Flagships
Main Headquarters - Richmond, Virginia
Commander in Chief - Admiral Chester Nimitz
Atlantic Fleet:
Headquarters of the Atlantic Fleet: Charleston
Naval Bases: Norfolk, Charleston, Georgetown, Savannah.
Reserve and Training Bases: St. Augustine, Brunswick.
Commander of Atlantic Naval Operations: Admiral Husband E. Kimmel
Flagship: CSS Jefferson Davis
Independent Naval Forces*:
Battlecruisers: CSS Jefferson Davis, CSS Robert E. Lee and CSS Camp Hill
Heavy Cruisers: CSS Alabama, CSS Tennessee, CSS Texas
Supporting Vessels: 4 Fleet Oil Tankers, 5 Destroyer Tenders, 6 Armed Trawlers, 3 Seaplane Tenders, 2 Repair Ships, 2 Hospital Ships, 3 Storeships, 5 Accommodation Hulks
Naval Squadrons and Flotillas:
1st Cruiser Squadron: CSS Virginia, CSS Richmond.
2nd Cruiser Squadron: CSS Fort Sumter, CSS Havana,
5th Cruiser Squadron: CSS Savannah, CSS Houston.
1st Destroyer Flotilla: CSS George E. Pickett, CSS Judah P. Benjamin, CSS John Y. Beall, CSS William H. Parker, CSS William W.J. Kelly.
2nd Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Raphael Semmes, CSS Anderson, CSS Tucker, CSS William T. Gassell, CSS Thomas E. Hogg.
4th Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Thomas D. Gordon, CSS John P. Edgar, CSS Marcus Slater, CSS Edward G. Burton, CSS Clark.
1st Submarine Flotilla: 7 Submarines, submarine tender CSS Pamlico Sound
2nd Submarine Flotilla: 8 Submarines, submarine Tender CSS Bogue Sound
4th Submarine Flotilla: 8 Submarines, submarine Tender CSS Vermillion Bay
1st Coastal Flotilla: 5 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 2 Netlayers, 4 Minelayers, 5 Minesweepers
2nd Coastal Flotilla: 4 Gunboats, 6 Submarine Chasers, 3 Minelayers, 5 Minesweepers
3rd Coastal Flotilla: 4 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 1 Netlayer, 2 Minelayers, 4 Minesweepers
4th Coastal Flotilla: 2 Gunboats, 5 Submarine Chasers, 2 Minelayers, 6 Minesweepers
6th Coastal Assault Flotilla: 10 MTB Boats
7th Coastal Assault Flotilla: 10 MTB Boats
12th Special Assault Flotilla: CSS Port of Spain, CSS Ares, 6 modified Submarines, submarine tender CSS Bulls Bay.
Caribbean Fleet:
Headquarters of the Caribbean Fleet: Tampa Bay
Naval Bases: Guantanamo Bay, Tampa Bay, Ft. Lauderdale, later Port-au-Prince, Santo Domingo, and Puerto Plata.
Reserve and Training Bases: New Orleans, Miami, Houston, Corpus Christi, Havana, Gulfport
Commander of the Caribbean Fleet: Admiral Robert H. English
Flagship: CSS North Carolina
Supporting Vessels: 4 Submarine Tenders, 3 Fleet Oil Tender, 3 Destroyer Tender, 12 Armed Trawlers, 4 Seaplane Tenders, 3 Repair Ships, 3 Hospital Ships, 2 Storeships, 4 Accommodation Hulks.
Naval Squadrons and Flotillas:
4th Cruiser Squadron: CSS North Carolina, CSS Manassas
6th Cruiser Squadron: CSS Georgia, CSS Little Rock
3rd Destroyer Flotilla: CSS R. L. Walker, CSS Ripley, CSS Franklin Buchanan, CSS McCoy
5th Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Wilson G. Richardson, CSS Horace L. Hunley, CSS Johnson, CSS Bader
6th Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Calhoun Ruggles, CSS Irvine Bulloch, CSS Roper
7th Destroyer Flotilla: CSS Dawson, CSS Clifton R. Beckinridge CSS James R. Randall
3rd Submarine Flotilla: 6 Submarines
5th Submarine Flotilla: 5 Submarines
6th Submarine Flotilla: 5 Submarines
7th Submarine Flotilla: 7 Submarines
1st Training Flotilla: CSS Confederacy, CSS Stonewall Jackson, CSS Memphis
2nd Training Flotilla: 2 Gunboats, 4 Sailing Ships, 2 Trawlers
3rd Training Flotilla: 5 Submarines
1st Transportation Flotilla: 6 Amphibious Assault Ships, 2 Barrel Landing Ships, 2 Landing Craft Tenders
2nd Transportation Flotilla: 7 Amphibious Assault Ships, 3 Barrel Landing Ships, 3 Landing Craft Tenders
5th Coastal Flotilla: 3 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 2 Netlayers, 3 Minelayers, 3 Minesweepers
6th Coastal Flotilla: 3 Gunboats, 2 Submarine Chasers, 2 Minelayers, 4 Minesweepers
7th Coastal Flotilla: 6 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 1 Netlayer, 2 Minelayer, 5 Minesweepers
9th Coastal Flotilla: 3 Gunboats, 4 Submarine Chasers, 1 Netlayer, 1 Minelayer, 6 Minesweepers
Inland Fleet:
Headquarters of the Inland Fleet: New Orleans
Naval Bases: Baton Rouge, Vicksburg, Memphis
Training Base: New Orleans
Commander of the Inland Fleet: Admiral Charles M. Cooke
Supporting Vessels: 5 Gunboat Tenders, 2 Repair Ships, 4 Hospital Ships, 1 Storeship
Naval Squadrons and Flotillas:
1st Inland Flotilla: 2 River Monitors, 4 Gunboats, 1 River Minelayer, 2 River Minesweepers
2nd Inland Flotilla: 3 River Monitors, 3 Gunboats, 2 River Minesweepers
3rd Inland Flotilla: 2 River Monitors, 3 Gunboats, 1 River Minesweeper
1st River Transportation Flotilla: 2 Ferries, 3 Barges, 1 Gunboat
2nd River Transportation Flotilla: 3 Ferries, 3 Barges
10th Submarine Flotilla: 4 Riverine Submarines
Pacific Fleet:
Headquarters of the Pacific Fleet: Guaymas
Naval Base: Guaymas
Commander of the Pacific Fleet: Middleton S. Elliot
Supporting Vessels, 1 Submarine Tender, 2 Armed Trawlers, 2 Storeships
Naval Squadrons and Flotillas:
8th Coastal Flotilla: 2 Gunboats, 2 Avisos, 3 Submarine Chasers, 1 Minelayer, 3 Minesweepers
10th Coastal Flotilla: 2 Avisos, 2 Submarine Chasers, 4 Minesweepers
11th Coastal Flotilla: 4 MTBs, 1 Gunboat, 1 Aviso, 2 Minelayers, 2 Minesweepers
9th Submarine Flotilla: 3 Submarines
==========================================
* - The Independent Naval Forces are the units that are earmarked for operations with or independent of the Squadrons and Flotillas of the Fleet
Red = Flotilla Leaders
Blue = Squadron and Fleet Flagships
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Probably has been brought up before, but what would you guys say is the likelihood of discontentment and popular resentment in the defeated powers of France, Britain, and Russia boiling over into a full on communist/other leftist ideology Revolution in at least one of them post-SGW?
Russia is possible, France is probably too busy dealing with Germany, Britain might get a sizable movement. My headcannon is revolution in Russia that only totally defeats the Tzar in the '70s and a Popular Front Labour-Communist Government in Britain in the '70s that abolishes the Monarchy after a Years of Lead style conflict. Additionally, Earl Browder's wing of the Socialists gets progressively more powerful after the war, eventually getting the nomination in 1984, which they then lose.
Question that no one's asked about and has nagged me quite a bit. Why does Chile and Paraguay join the First Great War? IOTL, Chile had no reason to join on either side as far as I'm aware. Paraguay would join in order to gain revenge on Argentina for the Paraguayan War IMO, but they too didn't have any reason to join. Argentina is drawn in because the CP, mainly the US, wanted to economically put a stranglehold on Entente Europe, which they succeeded in. IOTL Argentina also didn't have a reason to join the war on either side as well.
Take a stab in the dark
- ITTL Argentina is a British ally because they are making up the bulk of Britain's food stuffs.
- It's mentioned when the Dakota Task Force joins Chile that the US essentially built their fleet for them/sold them their surplus, so the US probably focused on courting nations in South America to act as a foil against European/Confederate influence on the continent.
- The US was probably terrified with the Confederates dominating the Caribbean they'd have to deal with the South American nations as well and so focused on developing certain SA nations to act as allies, much like to sounds Germany did with certain nations.
- so you get Chile and Paraguay supporting the CP against a now Entente allied Argentina, who likely has been supported by Britain in terms arms and military development in exchange for supplying cheap foodstuffs to the British Isles
Thanks. I was finding myself to be thinking too much in OTL's viewpoints rather than considering how deep the butterflies will fly in TL-191 with more European and Confederate influence in the absence of the Monroe Doctrine being enforced.
