28 Days Later - Death of a Nation

If you go back to one of the entries on this forum, Andy Harris was described as the "21st Century Hitler". Would it be fair he got all the blame because he was only 9 years old and therefore a minor?
For me, I wouldn't blame him, he was minor and he didn't deliberately bring Europe into madness. Too sad that he is a carrier.
 
It wouldn't surprise me one bit people would overlook a minor was an unwilling carrier.

But I tend to ignore the European outbreak. It's just not happening as I and others have repeatedly explained.
 

chankljp

Donor
It wouldn't surprise me one bit people would overlook a minor was an unwilling carrier.

But I tend to ignore the European outbreak. It's just not happening as I and others have repeatedly explained.
Same here. The idea of Rage wiping out Great Britain, and the rest of the world dealing with the aftermath, was an interesting idea worth exploring enough as it is. No need to add in Mainland Europe as well.
 
If you go back to one of the entries on this forum, Andy Harris was described as the "21st Century Hitler". Would it be fair he got all the blame because he was only 9 years old and therefore a minor?
I wrote that entry detailing his fate. My justification was that once Rage burns through Europe and the governments there reestablished, those countries will be mostly made up of resettled refugees or survivors who've lost everything; they're bitter and they would want someone to blame. The US decided that making sure post-Rage Europe doesn't fall too heavily into Russia's orbit meant offering them some red meat; they had also gotten everything useful out of him in the form of the Rage vaccine. Andrew was only turned over once he was an adult, and he never appeared in person at the new ICJ's tribunal because he was a carrier, so the whole process was very dehumanizing. There was a "Free Andy Harris" movement, but they never gained any traction because the countries that had suffered the most were in the driver's seat of the trial. Some might even have considered being put to death a more humane fate than isolated imprisonment for the rest of his natural life.
 
I wrote that entry detailing his fate. My justification was that once Rage burns through Europe and the governments there reestablished, those countries will be mostly made up of resettled refugees or survivors who've lost everything; they're bitter and they would want someone to blame. The US decided that making sure post-Rage Europe doesn't fall too heavily into Russia's orbit meant offering them some red meat; they had also gotten everything useful out of him in the form of the Rage vaccine. Andrew was only turned over once he was an adult, and he never appeared in person at the new ICJ's tribunal because he was a carrier, so the whole process was very dehumanizing. There was a "Free Andy Harris" movement, but they never gained any traction because the countries that had suffered the most were in the driver's seat of the trial. Some might even have considered being put to death a more humane fate than isolated imprisonment for the rest of his natural life.
So you're the author of that entry. A nice tough although very depressing.

With the apparent dissolution or weakened NATO, the Russians would definitely try to expand West ward. Though it appeared the U.S. and NATO were somehow open to the prospect of assisting the Russians, up until they gobbled up what remains of Belarus, Ukraine, and the Baltics. But I guess Bush or whoever is in the White House had no interests in containing Russia this time, seeing that the refugees of Europe would see Russia as a savior.

The prospect of blaming a nine year old at the time would be very controversial and have a divided view. It was also mentioned here that Andy was kept in the U.S., possibly the CDC or Fort Detrick. He shares the same fate with Sherry Birkin in Resident Evil 2 and 6 who lived under government custody up until the sixth entry to the franchise.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
Blaming Andy Harris for the European outbreak would be a gross injustice but also impossible if you are in possession of the facts. The US military command in Britain and Andys parents Don and Alice Harris all bear more direct culpability for what happened than Andy.....
 

chankljp

Donor
Just a question that I came up with, and had considered making a thread about, but decided to post it here instead since this had basically become an unofficial "28 Days Later" ATL general discussion thread at this point....

In the earlier discussions, most members seems to agree that even when dealing with a virus that is as supernaturally aggressively infectious and fast spreading as Rage, the idea of the UK getting utterly overrun and most of its population wiped out in merely 28 days was a bit too much, forcing the author to basically come up with in universe justification on why the country collapsed so quickly.

As such, my question would instead be this: 'Realistically' with everything else staying the same (The nature of the virus, the outbreak starting in the Cambridge lab, etc), what would the outcome have been? Would the UK still have been wiped out? If so, how long would it have taken instead? Or could the outbreak have been contained?
 
Just a question that I came up with, and had considered making a thread about, but decided to post it here instead since this had basically become an unofficial "28 Days Later" ATL general discussion thread at this point....

In the earlier discussions, most members seems to agree that even when dealing with a virus that is as supernaturally aggressively infectious and fast spreading as Rage, the idea of the UK getting utterly overrun and most of its population wiped out in merely 28 days was a bit too much, forcing the author to basically come up with in universe justification on why the country collapsed so quickly.

As such, my question would instead be this: 'Realistically' with everything else staying the same (The nature of the virus, the outbreak starting in the Cambridge lab, etc), what would the outcome have been? Would the UK still have been wiped out? If so, how long would it have taken instead? Or could the outbreak have been contained?

I think if you are talking post COVID then there is a chance of containment as soon as the outbreak starts and the transmission vectors become known, the govt orders everyone home/stay home and goes full Lockdown in the area allowing the Police/Army clear streets and much easier access to fight the infected. Without the Panic seen in the movie and folks trying to travel then its kept in Cambridgeshire.

Problem will always be the time delay in going from knowing it is a 'riot' to an Outbreak, and how far the infection can spread in that time. In the above scenario with all our experiences of lockdown and such I can see the first responders recognising it is an viral outbreak *much* faster than in the original timeline. Once people are ordered to stay put then its easier to fight it. Without that experience however the original timeline was fecked, as folk got up on the AM after/during the riot to goto work/school/shops and got caught up in it, and once a Horde forms spreading and spreading, leading to panic its was just a matter of time.

The 'unrealistic' bit of Rage is the speed of transmission- a few drops of a substance can turn you into homicidal rager in what 20-30 seconds tops?
 
I think if you are talking post COVID then there is a chance of containment as soon as the outbreak starts and the transmission vectors become known, the govt orders everyone home/stay home and goes full Lockdown in the area allowing the Police/Army clear streets and much easier access to fight the infected. Without the Panic seen in the movie and folks trying to travel then its kept in Cambridgeshire.

Problem will always be the time delay in going from knowing it is a 'riot' to an Outbreak, and how far the infection can spread in that time. In the above scenario with all our experiences of lockdown and such I can see the first responders recognising it is an viral outbreak *much* faster than in the original timeline. Once people are ordered to stay put then its easier to fight it. Without that experience however the original timeline was fecked, as folk got up on the AM after/during the riot to goto work/school/shops and got caught up in it, and once a Horde forms spreading and spreading, leading to panic its was just a matter of time.

The 'unrealistic' bit of Rage is the speed of transmission- a few drops of a substance can turn you into homicidal rager in what 20-30 seconds tops?
Agreed on the unrealistic.

As I understand, basically a Rager completely bound on the other side of the room would cause those in anything except space suits to become ragers within a minute. (Not sure on positive pressure suits on the care givers)
 
As such, my question would instead be this: 'Realistically' with everything else staying the same (The nature of the virus, the outbreak starting in the Cambridge lab, etc), what would the outcome have been? Would the UK still have been wiped out? If so, how long would it have taken instead? Or could the outbreak have been contained?
I'm not sure how densely populated is the British Isles outside of major cities, but seeing that the virus is not airborne, and that Ragers run about at normal human speeds (with unknown endurance levels) and requires sustenance (see: them dying out in the opening shots of 28WL) there's a good chance that national parks and mountains would become a fire break of sorts. The southwest and north of England, for one, should survive, not to mention Scotland.

Marc A
 
As I understand, basically a Rager completely bound on the other side of the room would cause those in anything except space suits to become ragers within a minute. (Not sure on positive pressure suits on the care givers)
No, blood has to get into the victim's bloodstream (or eyes in the case of Frank). In fact, Jim and Major West were standing next to the infected soldier that was vomiting up blood and they were just fine. So were the colleagues of Patient Zero and the scientist trying to stop them - until she fully succumbed, anyway.

I'm not sure how densely populated is the British Isles outside of major cities, but seeing that the virus is not airborne, and that Ragers run about at normal human speeds (with unknown endurance levels) and requires sustenance (see: them dying out in the opening shots of 28WL) there's a good chance that national parks and mountains would become a fire break of sorts. The southwest and north of England, for one, should survive, not to mention Scotland.

Marc A
I recall a 28WL prop map showing exactly that.
 
No, blood has to get into the victim's bloodstream (or eyes in the case of Frank). In fact, Jim and Major West were standing next to the infected soldier that was vomiting up blood and they were just fine. So were the colleagues of Patient Zero and the scientist trying to stop them - until she fully succumbed, anyway.
Given how much infected fluid they eject I'm surprised anybody would be able to go near one of them without getting some of it on them. A good question is how long the virus can survive outside of the body. Could a bit of blood on someones sleeve start a new outbreak? What about if dead infected were eaten by animals and then unknowingly eaten by people?
 
Given how much infected fluid they eject I'm surprised anybody would be able to go near one of them without getting some of it on them.
It's getting into the bloodstream that's the problem, not just getting it on you. Serena butchered Mark because he had open wounds and Infected blood was splashed all over him.
 
It's getting into the bloodstream that's the problem, not just getting it on you. Serena butchered Mark because he had open wounds and Infected blood was splashed all over him.
Sure, but if the infection can survive outside the body for any reasonable amount of time then getting it on you is just the first step to getting infected. Similar to how easy it is to get infected by going anywhere near an Ebola victim in our world which is the basis of RAGE.
 
Last edited:

MaxGerke01

Banned
Sure, but if the infection can survive outside the body for any reasonable amount of time then getting it on you is just the first step to getting infected. Similar to how easy it is to get infected by going anywhere near an Ebola victim in our world which is the basis of RAGE.
In the case of Frank it survived long enough to drop from the body of a dead Infected being pecked on by a crow into Franks eye and as with bites and kisses and other exchanges of bodily fludis the infection was still amost instant but that was internal-as the case with Mark and Serena but If you arent bitten or cut and there is no other direct exchange of bodily fluid it probably doesnt spread usually. However given the way that Ragers snarl and vocalize they are probably constantly spraying spittle and blood all over the place so that would also explain why contact with them is so dangerous.
 
Last edited:
Ten Years Later
AN: I've just realised that i started this story ten years ago this month, so in honour of that I think it deserves a little update.
................

From the writings of Dr James Hampton - Professor of History at Cambridge University - Project Lead of the National Historical Reclamation Effort.

Date :10th May 2012

Its an honour to be part of the Reclamation Effort . Reclaiming our history. The lost works of art, sculpteres, documents. So much of it was lost in the chaos of the first 28 days. The University of Cambridge, in partnership with the British governments Department of Culture has been tasked with the national effort to reclaim those lost treasures. As an institution we are incredibly lucky to even still exist, despite Cambridge being the ground zero for Rage, some of the faculty and students managed to barricade some of the campuses and hold out right through the epidemic. We can safety say that despite everything, the University of Cambridge managed to maintain our impressive record of being the third longest continuous university in operation at 800 years strong (Oxford didn't make it). That sense of history helped us stay together and keep fighting during the worst of times. Over 700 staff and students made it through the early days together.


Our helicopter flew in low over what had once been Manchester. The steel beams of Old Stafford Stadium jutted into the cold morning sky, blackened in parts and rusted in others. That stadium had burned during the first outbreak ten years ago. It burned alongside the rest of the city. The flames had started during the armys chaotic attempt to break out from the besieged city. The fire brigade could not fight the flames for the water supply was long gone. This was my hometown. My wife lived here with me and had planned to move to Cambridge with me where I'd just been offered a position in the History department. We had tried for children but it just wasn't to happen.

Emily. My wife. She had been on the phone all morning on that first day. I told her to stay in Manchester and not to get the train to Cambridge. The trains were cancelled an hour later. I silently thanked the lord at that. The phone went dead like all the phones across Cambridge that day , and I never heard from her again. To this day I still do not know what happened to her, but I know she's among ashes of the Manchester wasteland, floating in the air in the early morning breeze. How rather morbid I suppose.

I'm writing this as I go, for no other reason than to keep myself occupied in any down time we get. It's good to keep a record.

It brings a lump to my throat to look at this city. Most of it is rubble and burned out homes. I walk down Talbot Road. Weeds grow in the cracks in the road and vegetation has long since overtaken the burnt out cars. I'm careful to avoid the bones. No shortage of those. The stadium was a refugee camp for 20,000 people at one point. Very few escaped the flames, and those who did died in the stampede outside the stadium. Was Emily among them? Was it peaceful when she went? I do not want to know in all honesty.

The stadium was a bust it turned out. We had hoped to secure the trophies from the Manchester United Trophy Room. This wasn't an official part of our mission. We had already completed that and picked up some damaged but still surviving artifacts from the Manchester Museum earlier as well as the Science and Industry Museum. No, this was purely personal for me. My dad used to take me to the games and I really hoped something had survived of this once glorious clubs history. The stadium was ashes , but there was something glinting under a piece of wood. I pulled it up and dusted it off. A tear came go my eye. The 1968 European Cup. A bit before my time but my dad was there to watch them lift it. The only thing to survive in what was left of the Trophy Room. I loaded it into the RAF Chinook that was essentially our glorified removal van. We had a lynx for our teams personal transport.

I looked northwards. The flames had been held at the Manchester Canal. Our home had been across there. I politely ask the team to wait whilst I make my way across. The canal is filthy from all the muck and God knows what shit has fallen Into it over the years. The buildings on the other side are (mostly) still standing. Ten years of total human neglect have led to vines snaking their way up the old homes and shops. It looks not unlike Chernobyl. There are bones on the bridge I cross , along with long rusted SA-80 rifles and grime covered helmets. The army held here. They fought and lost but by God they fought like hell judging by the piles of bones that didn't have helmets on them.

It was a short walk to our old home. Nothing fancy, just a two bedroom house. Emily's Ford Focus is still in the driveway. It's blue paint is long rusted. I walk up to the front door and lift up a stone in front of the door. The spare key is still there. There's a struggle with the lock but it does eventually budge. The house is silent, but in my mind I can still hear the Coronation Street theme on the television, I can smell her making bacon and eggs. I smiled to myself. The house is dusty. Emily would never have tolerated that. Oh no, she was a clean freak. There's an old copy of the Manchester Evening Times on the living room table. Its badly faded but the words "All is Lost" can be made out.

I make my way upstairs to our room and push the door open. The curtains are closed , but there's enough light to see what I need to see. There's a skelton on our bed, lying atop the covers. A faded photo lies in its hand. One of our wedding photos. On the bedside table is an empty wine bottle and box of sleeping bills.

I have my answer. She went peacefully. I bury her in the back garden and made my way back to the choppers.

Some closure at last.
 
Nice piece there @kspence92 - Dr Hampton won't be alone in wondering what happened to x or y loved one.

He also won't be alone in making personal stops- all his team probably have places they would like to call in on.

Manchester is also an example of slow recovery would be; even if the Ragers die out within 28 weeks, then it is going to take ages for a proper clear up. Even starting from military bases every cellar, cupboard, attic, sewer, car, truck, shop, floor of a skyscraper needs to be checked for surviving Ragers, or disease carrying survivors. It would never be quick, never be clean, and never be nice. Ten years might even be too short a timescale.

10 years of this thread heh? Well congratz.
 
Top