List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

Revisions, based on suggestions here.


Edward IV, King of England (b. 1442, d. 1483) m. Elizabeth Woodville (b. 1437*, d. 1492) in 1464, had issue
1) Edward, Prince of Wales (b. 1466) m. Isabella of Naples (b. 1470)​
2) Richard, Duke of York and Norfolk (b. 1467, d. 1482) m. Anne de Mowbry, 8th countess of Norfolk (b. 1472)​
3) George, Duke of Bedford, iure uxoris Duke of Brittany (b. 1469) m. Isabeau, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1478)​
4) Elizabeth (b. 1470) m. Charles VIII, King of France (b. 1470)​
5) Edmund, earl of Cambridge (b. and d. 1472)​
6) Cecily (b. 1473) m. James IV Stewart, King of Scots (b. 1473)​
7) Thomas, Duke of Cambridge (b. 1475) m. Elizabeth Herbert, 3rd Baroness Herbert (b. 1476)​
8) Jacquetta (b. 1477, d. 1479)​
9) William, Duke of Hereford (b. 1478) m. Alice of Middleham, 1st countess of Salisbury (b. 1473*)​
10) Lionel, Bishop of Ely, later Bishop of Winchester (b. 1480)​
Switch the last two matches (needed for both ages and ranks of the brides) and is perfect
 
Margaret II of Flanders m. Henry III of England

1a. Edward I of England b. 1224

2a. Joan of England b. 1225

3a. John of England b. 1226

4a. Mary of England b. 1230
 
POD: For whatever reason (perhaps antipathy towards James VI) Lady Arbella Stuart succeeds Elizabeth I in 1603... Also, Frederick of Saxony lives past infancy, and as the younger brother of Christian I, Elector of Saxony, he may provide a valuable alliance without binding England to Saxony via a personal union. Also, Christian, Prince of Denmark dies in Infancy so that his younger brother is their father's heir from birth and can be given a more prestigious match...

Queen Arbella I of England, (b.1575, r.from 1603, d.1631) m. King Frederick I of England in 1590 (b.1575, d.1633), had issue
1) Henry Witten (b.1592, d.1592)
2) Edward, Prince of Wales, later Edward VII of England (b.1595, d.1678) m.Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate, Queen of England (b.1597, d.1658), had issue, second marriage to Anna Magdalena of Birkenfeld-Bischweiler, Queen of England (b.1640, d.1693), had issue
3) Stillborn daughter (1596)
4) Elizabeth Wettin, Queen of Bohemia (b.1599, d.1650) m.Frederick V of the Palatinate "The Winter King of Bohemia" (b.1596, d.1632), had issue
5) Charles, Duke of York (b.1604, d.1680)
6) Margaret Wettin, Queen of Denmark (b.1607, d.1684) m. King Frederick III of Denmark (b.1609, d.1670) had issue
 
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POD: For whatever reason (perhaps antipathy towards James VI) Lady Arbella Stuart succeeds Elizabeth I in 1603... Also, Frederick of Saxony lives past infancy, and as the younger brother of Christian I, Elector of Saxony, he may provide a valuable alliance without binding England to Saxony via a personal union. Also, Christian, Prince of Denmark dies in Infancy so that his younger brother is their father's heir from birth and can be given a more prestigious match...

Queen Arbella I of England, (b.1575, r.from 1603, d.1631) m. King Frederick I of England in 1590 (b.1575, d.1633), had issue
1) Henry Witten (b.1592, d.1592)
2) Edward, Prince of Wales, later Edward VII of England (b.1595, d.1678) m.Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate, Queen of England (b.1597, d.1658), had issue, second marriage to Anna Magdalena of Birkenfeld-Bischweiler, Queen of England (b.1640, d.1693), had issue
3) Stillborn daughter (1596)
4) Elizabeth Wettin, Queen of Bohemia (b.1599, d.1650) m.Frederick V of the Palatinate "The Winter King of Bohemia" (b.1596, d.1632), had issue
5) Charles, Duke of York (b.1604, d.1680)
6) Margaret Wettin, Queen of Denmark (b.1607, d.1684) m. King Frederick III of Denmark (b.1609, d.1670) had issue
Arbella becoming Elizabeth's heir is plausible if James VI dies before producing any issue, otherwise his son Henry would be the inarguable heir. I would have to imagine that Arbella would probably be compelled to marry a member of the English nobility descended from the royal bloodline in some way however. In OTL, she married William Seymour in 1609 and was imprisoned for it, but if James dies before 1593 (Henry was born early in 1594, so would have had to have been conceived the year before), Arbella would still be in her late teens and probably have any number of suitors available to her.

I should probably also add that around this time, Margaret Clifford, wife of the Earl of Derby Henry Stanley, was seen as Elizabeth's next heir, since I believe the line of Margaret Tudor was excluded from the succession.

I believe there were other claimants ahead of Arabella for the Scottish succession, but correct if I'm wrong about that. I think then that Arabella would would end up married to William Stanley, the 2nd son of Henry Stanley and Margaret Clifford, especially if his holder brother Ferdinando is still murdered when he was.
 
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Arbella becoming Elizabeth's heir is plausible if James VI dies before producing any issue, otherwise his son Henry would be the inarguable heir. I would have to imagine that Arbella would probably be compelled to marry a member of the English nobility descended from the royal bloodline in some way however. In OTL, she married William Seymour in 1609 and was imprisoned for it, but if James dies before 1593 (Henry was born early in 1594, so would have had to have been conceived the year before), Arbella would still be in her late teens and probably have any number of suitors available to her.
Thank you for letting me know 😃! I was thinking that a Saxon match could bring a valuable Protestant alliance that England needs, so Elizabeth would invite the younger Witten boy to England to marry her heiress Arbella..
 
I think since Arbella would be seen as a foreigner in the eyes of Parliament and the English nobility, they would definitely prefer to have her marry an Englishman. Marrying William Stanley would unite the lines of Margaret and Mary Tudor. England and Scotland I believe would remain separate.
 
I think since Arbella would be seen as a foreigner in the eyes of Parliament and the English nobility, they would definitely prefer to have her marry an Englishman. Marrying William Stanley would unite the lines of Margaret and Mary Tudor. England and Scotland I believe would remain separate.
For what reason Arbella would be seen as foreign? Most of her family is English born or at least English raised (her paternal grandfather and his father-in-law were Scottish, but her grandmother was born in England and partially raised there and is likely who also her father was born in England). Arbella was born in England and raised there, is unlikely who she had ever been in Scotland
 
Arbella becoming Elizabeth's heir is plausible if James VI dies before producing any issue, otherwise his son Henry would be the inarguable heir. I would have to imagine that Arbella would probably be compelled to marry a member of the English nobility descended from the royal bloodline in some way however. In OTL, she married William Seymour in 1609 and was imprisoned for it, but if James dies before 1593 (Henry was born early in 1594, so would have had to have been conceived the year before), Arbella would still be in her late teens and probably have any number of suitors available to her.

I should probably also add that around this time, Margaret Clifford, wife of the Earl of Derby Henry Stanley, was seen as Elizabeth's next heir, since I believe the line of Margaret Tudor was excluded from the succession.

I believe there were other claimants ahead of Arabella for the Scottish succession, but correct if I'm wrong about that. I think then that Arabella would would end up married to William Stanley, the 2nd son of Henry Stanley and Margaret Clifford, especially if his holder brother Ferdinando is still murdered when he was.
Scotland follow Semi-Salic succession (with female lines counted by blood proximity) so Arbella is likely James’ heiress in Scotland if he died childless (sure the Lennox are NOT royal Stewarts and their claim is inherited from an Hamilton ancestress, and so juniors to theirs, but I believe who Arbella would still be heiress ahead of the Hamiltons)
 
Thank you for letting me know 😃! I was thinking that a Saxon match could bring a valuable Protestant alliance that England needs, so Elizabeth would invite the younger Witten boy to England to marry her heiress Arbella..
Two of the matches you made for Arbella's kids seem implausible (IMO). A second marriage to a princess of Pfalz-Birkenfeld-Bischweiler is crazy low for the king of England. If he has heirs, she makes no sense (a love match seems unlikely since where would they have met?). She makes even LESS sense if his first marriage was childless. Her family is neither wealthy nor powerful nor even especially well-connected to potentially useful allies such as the Netherlands or Denmark or France/Spain/Austria.

As for a Danish match for Margaret, until 1647, Frederik III's older brother is heir to Denmark. No way anyone will marry his daughter to a SECOND son if there's a first born available. Which means either Margaret waits until the 1640s to get married (unlikely IMO), or she marries elsewhere. Arbella likely wouldn't have Anne of Denmark's hangups about her eldest daughter marrying Gustaf Vasa. Christian the Younger of Brunswick was also interested in OTL Elizabeth Stuart IIRC. A double Palatinate match seems a bit of a waste to me.
 
Two of the matches you made for Arbella's kids seem implausible (IMO). A second marriage to a princess of Pfalz-Birkenfeld-Bischweiler is crazy low for the king of England. If he has heirs, she makes no sense (a love match seems unlikely since where would they have met?). She makes even LESS sense if his first marriage was childless. Her family is neither wealthy nor powerful nor even especially well-connected to potentially useful allies such as the Netherlands or Denmark or France/Spain/Austria.

As for a Danish match for Margaret, until 1647, Frederik III's older brother is heir to Denmark. No way anyone will marry his daughter to a SECOND son if there's a first born available. Which means either Margaret waits until the 1640s to get married (unlikely IMO), or she marries elsewhere. Arbella likely wouldn't have Anne of Denmark's hangups about her eldest daughter marrying Gustaf Vasa. Christian the Younger of Brunswick was also interested in OTL Elizabeth Stuart IIRC. A double Palatinate match seems a bit of a waste to me.
He has heirs by his first marriage so the second one could possibly be a love match, for instance, she visits England shortly before or after her great aunt (and predecessor's) death. Well, in regards to the Danish match I mentioned in the original post that Frederik III's older brother dies in infancy... As for the matches in general, I was thinking that German and other matches would be more likely than French or Spanish ones, as by Arbella marrying a Wettin, England becomes much more Protestant and German orientated.
 
He has heirs by his first marriage so the second one could possibly be a love match, for instance, she visits England shortly before or after her great aunt (and predecessor's) death.
Hazards of travel in those days made it unlikely. And the previous queen being her great-aunt makes it iffy. That was one of the biggest problems with Henry VIII marrying Kristina of Denmark: Kristina being Katherine of Aragon's great-niece. Ordinarily, the pope would'vr granted the dispensation, but Henry had denied that the pope had this right, so what to do about it? There were even jokes made at the imperial court at the time that "the king has put away the aunt to marry the little niece".
As for the matches in general, I was thinking that German and other matches would be more likely than French or Spanish ones, as by Arbella marrying a Wettin, England becomes much more Protestant and German orientated.
Why? She married a younger son from Saxony. By the time of their marriage Christian I's had his kids already, so there's nothing really for Fritz to inherit. So he comes to England essentially unfettered. England is no more bound to follow Saxon lead under him than she was to follow a Spanish lead under Mary I or follow Denmark under Queen Anne. Saxony's relations with England are ENTIRELY dependent on the queen's relationship with her husband. Will England make Protestant matches? Probably, but I find it difficult to believe that no matter how Protestant they go, they'll ignore France/Spain/Austria. Hell, George I's daughter was a serious contender to marry Louis XV (and that was AFTER the Act of Settlement), and the ONLY reason the marriage didn't go through was because the ministry pointed out to George I that it would look odd if a king "who owed his throne only to his virtue of being a Protestant were fo marry his eldest granddaughter to the Catholic king of France".
 
Revised issue of Margaret of Austria from my Margareta domina TL.


Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Burgundy (b. January 1480, r. from 1496) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, r. from 1504) in 1497, had issue

1) Mary (b. September 1498) m. John III, King of Castile, Aragon, and Portugal (b. 1498)​
2) Philip V, Duke of Burgundy (b. April 1500) m. Katherine Tudor (b. 1503)​
3) Margaret (b. February 1502) m. Christian II, King of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway (b. 1481)​
4) Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. August 1503) m. Elisabeth Jagiellonica (b. 1505)​
5) Philiberta (b. October 1505) m. Stephen VI Jagiellon, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1504)​
6) Bianca (b. March 1507) m. Massimiliano II Sforza, Duke of Milan (b. 1512)​
Note:
Stephen and Elisabeth Jagiellon are the children of Vladislaus II and Maria of Aragon.
Beatriz and John are the children of Manuel I and Juana of Castile.
Massimiliano is the son of Francesco II Sforza and Bona Sforza.
 
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Revised issue of Margaret of Austria from my Margareta domina TL.


Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Burgundy (b. January 1480, r. from 1496) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, r. from 1504) in 1497, had issue

1) Mary (b. September 1498) m. John III, King of Castile, Aragon, and Portugal (b. 1502)​
2) Philip V, Duke of Burgundy (b. April 1500) m. Mary Tudor (b. 1503, d. 1524) (a); Beatriz of Portugal (b. 1504) (b)​
3) Margaret (b. February 1502) m. Sigismund I Jagiellon, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania (b. 1467) in 1517, had issue​
4) Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. August 1503) m. Elisabeth Jagiellonica (b. 1505)​
5) Philiberta (b. October 1505) m. Stephen VI Jagiellon, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1504)​
6) Bianca (b. March 1507) m. Massimiliano II Sforza, Duke of Milan (b. 1512)​
Note:
Stephen and Elisabeth Jagiellon are the children of Vladislaus II and María of Aragón.
Beatriz and John are the children of Manuel I and Juana of Castile.
Massimiliano is the son of Francesco II Sforza and Bona Sforza.
I am also considering having Margaret marry Christian II of Denmark because I don't have a bride for him ITTL.
I am loving it. For Christian there is no Tudor bride available?
And I am absolutely loving it
 
I am loving it. For Christian there is no Tudor bride available?
No, as Arthur Tudor survives longer ITTL so Elizabeth of York and Henry VII never try for another child in 1502/1503. Though Elizabeth was probably pregnant before Arthur's death, so maybe I could change that...
 
No, as Arthur Tudor survives longer ITTL so Elizabeth of York and Henry VII never try for another child in 1502/1503. Though Elizabeth was probably pregnant before Arthur's death, so maybe I could change that...
You have Mary Tudor as born in 1503 here, so she is either Arthur’s daughter (and her aunt is free) or the birthdate is wrong... Also with your POD
 
You have Mary Tudor as born in 1503 here, so she is either Arthur’s daughter (and her aunt is free) or the birthdate is wrong... Also with your POD
Oh oh, I was confused...I had thought about Mary the Elder dying in childhood (she was apparently a sickly child) while Henry and Elizabeth had a surviving daughter in 1503. But I decided against it.
 
Mary of Savoy has a son with Filippo Maria Visconti

Mary of Savoy (1411-1469) m. Filippo Maria (1392-1447) Duke of Milan

1) Galeazzo Maria (1430-1489) Duke of Milan 1447, m. a) Margaret of Savoy (1439-1464) b) Eleanor of Naples (1450-1493)

1a) Gian Galeazzo (1457-1460)​
2a) Mary (1458-1512) m. Ercole d'Este (1431-1505) Duke of Ferrara​
3a) Margaret (1461)​
4a) Anna (1464-1471)​
5b) Philip (1469-1531) Duke of Milan 1489, m. Elisabetta Gonzaga (1471-1526)​
6b) Isabella (1472)​
7b) Eleanor (1474-1538) m. Philibert I (1465-1505) Duke of Savoy​
 
MIRACLE OF THE HOUSE OF HABSBURG

Built this tree based on various previous discussions about Baltasar Carlos or Ferdinand IV, King of the Romans, surviving or Klaudia Felizitas having a brother:

Ferdinand III, Holy Roman Emperor [1637-1657], King of Hungary & Bohemia [1637-1646] (1608-1657) 1m: Maria Anna of Spain (1606-1646); 2m: 1648 Maria Leopoldine of Austria (1632-1649); 3m: 1651 Eleonora Gonzaga (1630-1686)

[1m.] Ferdinand IV, Holy Roman Emperor [1657-1700], King of Hungary & Bohemia [1646-1669] (1633-1700) m: 1654 Anna Sophie of Hesse-Darmstadt [1] (1638-1683)​
Ferdinand V Bonaventure Philipp Albrecht, Holy Roman Emperor [1700-1712], King of Hungary & Bohemia [1669-1712] (1655-1716) m:​
Maria Anna Leopoldine (b.1656)​
Eleonore Maria Theresia (b.1658)​
Stillborn Son (1660)​
Maria Antonia Klementine (b.1663)​
Maria Theresia Ferdinande (1664-1664)​
Karl Thomas Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria (b.1666)​
Stillborn Child (1667)​
Maria Elisabeth Karoline (1670-1671)​
Joseph Anton Ignaz, Archduke of Austria (b.1672)​
[1m.] Maria Anna (1634-1696) m: 1648 Carlos II, King of Spain (1629-1709)​
[1m.] Philipp August (1637-1639)​
[1m.] Maximilian Thomas (1638-1639)​
[1m.] Leopold, Cardinal [1655-], Archbishop-Elector of Trier [1652-1705[2]], Bishop of Olmütz [1655-1705], Bishop of Breslau [1662-1705] Grand Master of the Teutonic Order [1662-1705] (1640-1705)​
[1m.] Maria (1646)​
[2m.] Karl Joseph, Archduke of Austria[3] (1649-1708) m: 1673 Klaudia Felizitas of Tyrol (1653-1716)​
Karl Ferdinand Joseph (1674-1675)​
Franz Anton, Archduke of Austria (1677-1713)​
Maria Anna Barbara (1678-1679)​
Maria Leopoldine Felizitas (1679-1740)​
[3m.] Theresia Maria Josepha (1652-1653)​
[3m.] Eleonore Maria Josepha (1653-1697) 1m: 1670 Michal Wisniowiecki, King of Poland (1640-1673); 2m: 1678 Charles V, Duke of Lorraine (1643-1690)[7]​
Issue as OTL​
[3m.] Maria Anna Josepha (1654-1696) m: 1674 Karl Emil, Elector of Brandenburg (1655-1724)​
Karl (1676-1680)​
Luise Eleonore (1678-1719)​
Anna Maria (1680-1718)​
Henriëtte Dorothea (1682-1687)​
Friedrich IV Ferdinand, Elector of Brandenburg (1684-1740)​
Leopold Wilhelm (1687-1753)​
Elisabeth Amalie (1688-1739)​
[3m.] Ferdinand Joseph Alois (1657-1658)​


Felipe IV, King of Spain [1621-1665] (1605-1665) 1m: 1615 Élisabeth de France (1601-1644)

Maria Margarita (1621-1621)​
Margarita Maria Catalina (1623-1623)​
Maria Eugenia (1625-1627)​
Stillborn Daughter (1626)​
Isabel Maria Teresa (1627-1627)​
Baltasar Carlos II, King of Spain, Naples, Sicily, Sardinia [1665-1709] (1629-1709[4]) m: 1648 Maria Anna of Austria (1634-1696)​
Maria Isabel (1652-1675) m: [7]​
Felipe Fernando (1654-1658)​
Fernando Miguel (1656-1656)​
Maria Antonia Leonor (b.1659) m: [7]​
Carlos III Antonio, King of Spain, Naples, Sicily & Sardinia [from 1709] (b.1661) m: 1674 Maria Beatrice d'Este (b.1658)[6]​
Stillborn Son (1664)​
Felipe Pedro, Infante of Spain (b.1667)​
Francisco Fernando (1634)​
Maria Antonia Dominica (1636-1636)​
Maria Teresa (1638-1683) m: 1660 Louis XIV, King of France (1638-1715)[5]​
Issue as OTL​



[1] a match gleaned from one of the aforementioned previous discussions. That one of the daughters of the Landgrave of Hesse-Darmstadt was the likeliest candidate (especially since Ferdinand III had promised to avoid getting the empire involved in the Spanish entanglements) for Ferdinand IV. Anna Sophie had a “moment of weakness” shortly after her sister married the Count of Neuberg, and her election as abbess of Quedlinburg was regarded as suspect for this reason. Here, the moment of weakness is long enough to make her convert to Catholicism and marry Ferdinand IV. Although she later isn't what one can call a very...convinced Catholic.

[2] basing this off something I think @Valena said once that had Ferdinand IV had survived, Leopold would have been shuffled into one of the archbishop-electorates

[3] things in Tyrol go as OTL. Another discussion between @Valena and @VVD0D95 that in the event of Karl Joseph surviving or Klaudia Felizitas having a brother, he would’ve been married to Margarita Teresa of Spain and Leopold I would’ve married to Klaudia Felizitas with the Tyrol as a dowry.

[4] here is our primary POD. Baltasar Carlos survives (or better yet, never catches the disease that killed him OTL. Felipe IV seems unlikely to remarry here, so he doesn't.

[5] Maria Teresa is admittedly less of a catch with Baltasar Carlos surviving. However, since there already is an Austro-Spanish match, and Felipe IV was already decided on a French match back in the 1640s. Until the Restoration happens, she’s the best match that Louis XIV can get.

[6] this marriage is probably the most ASB one here, but, if her brother seemingly has poor health, she's a potential heiress of sorts (especially if Rinaldo d'Este were to follow his half-brothers to an early grave. And even if he didn't, a Farnese mother might've still helped Rinaldo (provided him with allies), a Barberini mother is pretty much useless for anything except influence in the papal states.

[7] other: these matches were mostly because I either couldn't think of alternatives (although James II of England did occur to me for Eleonora Maria Josepha, neither she nor her sister, Maria Anna were considered OTL, although Klaudia Felizitas was) or wasn't sure who'd be up for consideration.

@Vitruvius @Benevolence @isabella @Jan Olbracht
 
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Sigismund Jagiellon predeceased his brother Alexander, Vladislaus of Bohemia and Hungary succeedes Alexander in Poland and Lithuania, being only living adult male Jagiellon, and thus he sits on 4 thrones.

Vladislaus II/IV (1456-1518)* King of Bohemia 1471, King of Hungary 1490, Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1506, m. a) Barbara of Brandenburg (annuled) b) Beatrice of Naples (annuled) c) Anne of Foix (1484-1535)

1c) Louis II (1503-1571) King of Bohemia and Hungary 1518, m. Mary of Austria (1505-1558)

2c) Vladislaus V (1505-1557) Grand Duke of Lithuania, King of Poland 1518, m. Anna of Brandenburg (1507-1567)

3c) Anna (1507-1536) m. Ferdinand I (1503-1564) Holy Roman Emperor

*As Anne of Foix survives ITTL, Vladislaus, who was depressed after her death, lives a bit longer.
 
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VVD0D95

Banned
Something I've been pondering

Charles II of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1630: d.1686) m Catherine of Braganza (b.1638: d.1705)

Issue:

Stillborn son (b.1663: d.1663)

Elizabeth, Princess Royal (b.1666) m Frederick, Crown Prince of Denmark (b.1671) in 1685

Charles III of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1666) m Maria Anna of Neuburg (b.1667) in 1684

---------
Charles III of England, Scotland and Ireland (b.1666: d.1723) m Maria Anna of Neuburg (b.1667: d.1740)

Issue:

Catherine, Princess Royal (b.1684)

Charles, Prince of Wales (b.1685: d.1692)

Robert I of England and IV of Scotland (b.1687)

Mary of England (b.1689)

stillborn son (b.1691: d.1691)

Anne of Holyrood (b.1694)

James, Duke of Gloucester and Kintyre (b.1696)

Stillborn daughter (b.1699: d.1699)

Henry, Duke of Clarence and Ross (b.1702)

@Kellan Sullivan @isabella @curlyhairedhippie @The Professor @Jonathan @Valena @Emperor Constantine
 
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