AHC/WI: The People's Party/Populists as a major Farmer-Labor party?

[FightingBob24]

Ahh, the People's Party. While successful in the short time they existed, they never really expanded their base of support beyond their rural core, and were later swallowed up by the Democrats. What I wonder is what if the Populists managed to survive and gain the support of organized labor and become a sort of farmer-labor party?

In 1896 Eugene Debs, with his strong ties to labor, was considered for the nomination before his endorsement of Bryan. Some Populists like Mary Lease also believed in cooperation between the Populists and the labor movement, but Samuel Gompers opposed this, ending hope of cooperation with the AFL.

So my question is how could this be achieved (POD of around 1885)? Could Gompers be replaced (and with who?) and have the AFL become affiliated with the party in the early 1890s? Could the Democrats stay gold instead of turning to a Silverite? Would the Populists have a realistic shot at the presidency in 1900?

 

[DanMcCollum]

Ahh, the People's Party. While successful in the short time they existed, they never really expanded their base of support beyond their rural core, and were later swallowed up by the Democrats. What I wonder is what if the Populists managed to survive and gain the support of organized labor and become a sort of farmer-labor party?

In 1896 Eugene Debs, with his strong ties to labor, was considered for the nomination before his endorsement of Bryan. Some Populists like Mary Lease also believed in cooperation between the Populists and the labor movement, but Samuel Gompers opposed this, ending hope of cooperation with the AFL.

So my question is how could this be achieved (POD of around 1885)? Could Gompers be replaced (and with who?) and have the AFL become affiliated with the party in the early 1890s? Could the Democrats stay gold instead of turning to a Silverite? Would the Populists have a realistic shot at the presidency in 1900?

First: Love your name. Bob and Phil are both big heroes of mine

Now, onto your main question: One of the major issues that the Populists had in OTL was that anti-semitism and anti-Catholicism was fairly rife amongst the leaders of the party (and, for that matter, the rank-and-file) as well. This is often brushed over by stating that they had troubles reaching out to Labor, but the religious dimensions of it really are very important as well (seeing as a vast amount of the labor vote was, well, Catholic and Jewish). That having been said, the Populists actually did make some inroads into some labor bastions - the Populists in Milwaukee, in alliance with the proto-Socialists made some gains in the city common council at this time. So, with the right local leaders, there is a definite possibility of a Farm-Labor alliance forming in time. But it's going to take some time and a number of factors working just right.

As for Gompers: removing Gompers is going to cause some major ripples throughout Labor history. Gomper's preceived conservatism was one of the reasons that Debs and others would go on form the Wobblies as a radical alternative to the AFL (which would ideally be associated with the Socialist Party). But, at the same time, Gompers did a lot of work to make Labor semi-respectable and secure as well - hense his reluctance to support the preceived radical Populists who he associated with Socialists. Now, there was a Socialist faction within the AFL, and they were able to get their candidate elected AFL President in 1894 (John McBride) but he ended up eroding his populairty in a number of conflicts with affiliated labor chapters, and was replaced with Gompers (again). So he's a potential replacement, but I'm not sure if the AFL would declien under his leadership or not.

 

[FightingBob24]

First: Love your name. Bob and Phil are both big heroes of mine

Now, onto your main question: One of the major issues that the Populists had in OTL was that anti-semitism and anti-Catholicism was fairly rife amongst the leaders of the party (and, for that matter, the rank-and-file) as well. This is often brushed over by stating that they had troubles reaching out to Labor, but the religious dimensions of it really are very important as well (seeing as a vast amount of the labor vote was, well, Catholic and Jewish). That having been said, the Populists actually did make some inroads into some labor bastions - the Populists in Milwaukee, in alliance with the proto-Socialists made some gains in the city common council at this time. So, with the right local leaders, there is a definite possibility of a Farm-Labor alliance forming in time. But it's going to take some time and a number of factors working just right.

As for Gompers: removing Gompers is going to cause some major ripples throughout Labor history. Gomper's preceived conservatism was one of the reasons that Debs and others would go on form the Wobblies as a radical alternative to the AFL (which would ideally be associated with the Socialist Party). But, at the same time, Gompers did a lot of work to make Labor semi-respectable and secure as well - hense his reluctance to support the preceived radical Populists who he associated with Socialists. Now, there was a Socialist faction within the AFL, and they were able to get their candidate elected AFL President in 1894 (John McBride) but he ended up eroding his populairty in a number of conflicts with affiliated labor chapters, and was replaced with Gompers (again). So he's a potential replacement, but I'm not sure if the AFL would declien under his leadership or not.

Glad you like it, Bob's a hero of mine as well, loved him ever since high school🙂

That nativism would definitely be an issue, so having local leaders that do not exude hostility to everything immigrant workers stand for sounds like a good start! Any specific PODs that could lead to local Populist chapters refashioning themselves as more appealing to immigrant workers?

Interesting, I seem to have forgotten about McBride! I tend to associate the early AFL with Gompers running the show for about all of its early existence. You raise a good point about him though, he basically made the AFL what it was, so a McBride led AFL may encounter issues, unless he somehow doesn't erode his popularity, but I do not know much about him or those conflicts so I'm not sure how to get him to not do that.

Regardless thanks for the reply, this is actually my first thread😄 I've used this site for years but only recently made an account.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Glad you like it, Bob's a hero of mine as well, loved him ever since high school🙂

That nativism would definitely be an issue, so having local leaders that do not exude hostility to everything immigrant workers stand for sounds like a good start! Any specific PODs that could lead to local Populist chapters refashioning themselves as more appealing to immigrant workers?

Interesting, I seem to have forgotten about McBride! I tend to associate the early AFL with Gompers running the show for about all of its early existence. You raise a good point about him though, he basically made the AFL what it was, so a McBride led AFL may encounter issues, unless he somehow doesn't erode his popularity, but I do not know much about him or those conflicts so I'm not sure how to get him to not do that.

Regardless thanks for the reply, this is actually my first thread😄 I've used this site for years but only recently made an account.

Glad to have you onboard! Are you a fellow Wisconsinite by chance?

Sadly, I don't know a single POD that could work right off the top of my head, and would need to do some digging (I find labor history interesting, and it brushes up heavily against my own research topic for my program, but I'm not particularly well versed in it yet, sadly). Have you read Salvatore's biography of Debs yet? I did a few years ago, and it digs pretty heavily into the labor side of things as well as explores Debs' interactions with the Populists, Gompers and others. It might be a good place to start. YOu may also want to look into The Tolerant Populists: Kansas Populists and Nativism by Nugent.

And I'll do some digging on my end to see if I can come up with something as well. A timeline with a successful Populist Party has always fascinated me (I kind of envision a scenario where the US is a Three Party system but, in effect, most states are still two parties. You'd have the Populists v the Dems in the South, Populists v Republicans in the Upper Midwest, Reps v Dems in the North Earth, etc).

 

[FightingBob24]

Glad to have you onboard! Are you a fellow Wisconsinite by chance?

Sadly, I don't know a single POD that could work right off the top of my head, and would need to do some digging (I find labor history interesting, and it brushes up heavily against my own research topic for my program, but I'm not particularly well versed in it yet, sadly). Have you read Salvatore's biography of Debs yet? I did a few years ago, and it digs pretty heavily into the labor side of things as well as explores Debs' interactions with the Populists, Gompers and others. It might be a good place to start. YOu may also want to look into The Tolerant Populists: Kansas Populists and Nativism by Nugent.

And I'll do some digging on my end to see if I can come up with something as well. A timeline with a successful Populist Party has always fascinated me (I kind of envision a scenario where the US is a Three Party system but, in effect, most states are still two parties. You'd have the Populists v the Dems in the South, Populists v Republicans in the Upper Midwest, Reps v Dems in the North Earth, etc).

Milwaukee native my whole life!

I have not yet, but I will definitely check those out. Labor history is a very interesting topic I would like to be more versed in.

And sounds good! I was thinking the Democrats would be displaced due to the difficulties in making a three party system work with the US electoral system, but perhaps regionalism in a three party system could work, due the strength in the south the Democrats held. Perhaps this could push the US to adopt electoral reform more friendly to a multi-party system in the long run!

 

[DanMcCollum]

Milwaukee native my whole life!

I have not yet, but I will definitely check those out. Labor history is a very interesting topic I would like to be more versed in.

And sounds good! I was thinking the Democrats would be displaced due to the difficulties in making a three party system work with the US electoral system, but perhaps regionalism in a three party system could work, due the strength in the south the Democrats held. Perhaps this could push the US to adopt electoral reform more friendly to a multi-party system in the long run!

Grew up in a small Polish town outside of Wausau, myself. Love the Northwoods with all my heart