If Ireland made it clear they only wanted the Catholic parts, would the British public have the political will to support such a war?

Also what if Ireland tries this while the British military is tied down in the Falklands?
There are no purely "Catholic parts" anymore than there are purely "Protestant" areas, so you still end up either displacing people or people ending up in areas they don't want to be in, also just where o you draw the line on this? Carve up Belfast?

As to Falklands era, DF slightly more modern but basically still the same capabilities, British Forces still far too modern/large/supported/capable.
 
There are no purely "Catholic parts" anymore than there are purely "Protestant" areas, so you still end up either displacing people or people ending up in areas they don't want to be in, also just where o you draw the line on this? Carve up Belfast?

As to Falklands era, DF slightly more modern but basically still the same capabilities, British Forces still far too modern/large/supported/capable.
Would it affect the Falklands conflict though?
 
I think I was a bit confused there but yes, no Shermans went to the Irish Army, for some dumb reason I was thinking of the Israeli Army instead where I know they had Sherman variants into the late 60s.

One thing that might be a complicating factor: the mobilization potential. I am not sure if Ireland could mobilize reserves for a short war or not. I don't think it matters in the end, but it could create a more serious war with the UK.
Yeah, outside of the couple from Sweden all our tanks have been British surplus.
Really it wouldn't make a huge difference, I mean take my Godfather, in the reserves and trained on the Lee Enfield and Bren but he and about a hundred others were actually the last of the coastal gunners in Cobh, he claims he was a good shot with a 6", but not really relevant in this case. Besides even then the Reserves wouldn't add much, and would make the logistical problems even worse.
 
Would it affect the Falklands conflict though?
Not likely, I mean forces already committed to the campaign are committed, really the UK would just have to pull some units from the UK or Germany for a couple of days to counter such a situation, though tbh, by the time we're both in the EEC, it's not credible that Ireland would suddenly decide to try and invade NI for "reasons".
 
There are no purely "Catholic parts" anymore than there are purely "Protestant" areas, so you still end up either displacing people or people ending up in areas they don't want to be in, also just where o you draw the line on this? Carve up Belfast?

As to Falklands era, DF slightly more modern but basically still the same capabilities, British Forces still far too modern/large/supported/capable.

From what I understand at the time in Northern Ireland there was pretty severe segregation with "Protestant Neighborhoods" and "Catholic Neighborhoods". Saying that actually trying to divide it up would be a fucking nightmare. You wouldn't get a lot of neat even lines.

If you actually tried to divide Northern Ireland at the time into "Catholic bits" (Going to the Republic of Ireland) and "Protestant Bits" (staying in the UK) you'd get something those towns in India/Burma that ended up being exclaves in their neighbor's country. And in many cases enclaves inside of those enclaves and something enclaves inside of that Enclave. Just by walking between a few villages (very close to each other) you'd be traveling over international borders multiple times.


It'd be like that but on crack. Completely destroy the economy of NI and unless there's a lot of international cooperation cause a near complete breakdown of infrastructure.
 
Not likely, I mean forces already committed to the campaign are committed, really the UK would just have to pull some units from the UK or Germany for a couple of days to counter such a situation, though tbh, by the time we're both in the EEC, it's not credible that Ireland would suddenly decide to try and invade NI for "reasons".
I've heard a pretty batshit insane scenario floated in an ASB TL on some other forum, forget when exactly, that Charles Haughey gets blackmailed massively for all of his corrupt deeds during the government formation process in early 1982 by an all knowing Tony Gregory, who is the decisive vote because in this scenario, the Workers Party gets 2 seats instead of 3 but won't support Fianna Fail, and the terms of the blackmail are an army raid on H Block to free Republican prisoners

It was crazy enough I thought it was hilarious, and the whole thing seemed more like an early Fianna Fail Screw of a TL more than anything else, but the military part ended up seeing a failed raid, an armored offensive by British units taken from the North German plain overtaking much of Ireland in a few days, a quick ceasefire being signed and the fall of the government after 2 months instead of 7
 
I've heard a pretty batshit insane scenario floated in an ASB TL on some other forum, forget when exactly, that Charles Haughey gets blackmailed massively for all of his corrupt deeds during the government formation process in early 1982 by an all knowing Tony Gregory, who is the decisive vote because in this scenario, the Workers Party gets 2 seats instead of 3 but won't support Fianna Fail, and the terms of the blackmail are an army raid on H Block to free Republican prisoners

It was crazy enough I thought it was hilarious, and the whole thing seemed more like an early Fianna Fail Screw of a TL more than anything else, but the military part ended up seeing a failed raid, an armored offensive by British units taken from the North German plain overtaking much of Ireland in a few days, a quick ceasefire being signed and the fall of the government after 2 months instead of 7
That's impressively Batshit, for so many reasons, I mean hell it forgets that while everyone remembers H Block, our own Portlaoise at the same time period was one of the most heavily fortified prisons in Europe to hold Republican prisoners, up to and including an Army detachment armed up to MANPAD level to stop any escape attempts. If anyone was willing to use that irt on Charlie (and plenty of it was known, himself the Godfather was in one of his many jobs over the years one of the go to drivers for the Irish Government, the stories he tells...)

But yeah, basically you have a under resourced Light Infantry Army going against a NATO standard power... There's no way it ends any other way. I mean hell even if you took the NATO standard 2% spending and applied it to today when Ireland has the largest population since the Famine and is effectively the richest it's ever been, even then a fully resourced military isn't going to win against a UK force, the scale of numbers is just too much.
 
unless ireland wants to be flattened by British bombs......no.
Even in the falklands war, the majority of the airforce was in Britain. More than enough to flatten the Irish.
 
General the Irish Army has invaded Ulster.
What Irish Army and how long before the R.U.C. arrests it?
Cute, but the RUC of the time had other jobs, you might remember what some of them got up to.
Like I said, by this stage of the Troubles the DF had gained a good degree of small unit experience, the RUC would have been outmatched.
 
unless ireland wants to be flattened by British bombs......no.
Even in the falklands war, the majority of the airforce was in Britain. More than enough to flatten the Irish.
Yeah, given the long list of actions during that period when the UK didn't react (Mountbatten, the murder of the British Ambassador, the burning of the British Embassy) and the UK knowing full well the limitations of the DF, "flattening" is a highly unlikely outcome. Most likely at best a show of force while NI was reinforced and that's the end of it.
 
That's impressively Batshit, for so many reasons, I mean hell it forgets that while everyone remembers H Block, our own Portlaoise at the same time period was one of the most heavily fortified prisons in Europe to hold Republican prisoners, up to and including an Army detachment armed up to MANPAD level to stop any escape attempts. If anyone was willing to use that irt on Charlie (and plenty of it was known, himself the Godfather was in one of his many jobs over the years one of the go to drivers for the Irish Government, the stories he tells...)
I kind of wonder, even if that TL was ASB, what kind of good PODs could come from a Haughey blackmail scenario. I think MI5 for example knew about his women on the side, and his financial dealings as you mentioned, not exactly a secret. The most obvious would be stuff in his last term when money was starting to pour into the country, through perhaps a Russia-type firesale of state assets (where you mark them down first and sell them to a very specific bidder in dodgy fashion)
 
I'm an American with little knowledge of the conflict, so take this with a grain of salt.

For the Irish Defense Force to cross into the north and not immediately be gunned down, it seems to me that you would need to have an absurdly conflict averse government in power in the UK, so much so that they basically advocate for appeasement. Which is probably possible, but would require some sort of UK political shenanigans, and even then the next government might immediately reverse that position.
 
If the border is crossed and things don't look so good, not quite up to shooting at each other, the UK army hasn't got, or not quite sure of orders. Send over a couple of flights of, even, Hunters at 0ft over Dublin. Cheaper than parking a couple of destroyers in the bay.
 
From what I understand at the time in Northern Ireland there was pretty severe segregation with "Protestant Neighborhoods" and "Catholic Neighborhoods". Saying that actually trying to divide it up would be a fucking nightmare. You wouldn't get a lot of neat even lines.

If you actually tried to divide Northern Ireland at the time into "Catholic bits" (Going to the Republic of Ireland) and "Protestant Bits" (staying in the UK) you'd get something those towns in India/Burma that ended up being exclaves in their neighbor's country. And in many cases enclaves inside of those enclaves and something enclaves inside of that Enclave. Just by walking between a few villages (very close to each other) you'd be traveling over international borders multiple times.


It'd be like that but on crack. Completely destroy the economy of NI and unless there's a lot of international cooperation cause a near complete breakdown of infrastructure.
Very much so. The reason why North Belfast was the murder capital of the North during the troubles was that it was a patchwork of Protestant and Catholic areas literally separated from each other by about 100 yards of tarmac. Then you have largely Protestant villages like Castlederg or Sion Mills with a Catholic hinterland, largely Catholic towns/villages like Downpatrick or Kircubbin with vice versa or Kilkeel which traditionally had a Protestant side of the main street and a Catholic side of the main street.
 
Of course, if the OP's desire is to see UK and Ireland locked in combat you can get that, you just need a more distant POD. Because the problem is, alone, Ireland can never fight the UK, Britain is just too big and strong. Even in 'weak' periods, Britain has always had a pretty sizable military. What you need is to set up a world where Ireland has allies.

What about a world where a Ireland-UK war means the USA or a strong Germany on Ireland's side?
 
There's a scenario that doesn't involve war with the UK. I don't exactly know how it might happen, but I vaguely remember someone in the UK proposing to just make Northern Ireland independent?

If that happens and things go to absolute crap in Northern Ireland, I could see Irish troops entering in, kind of as peacemakers.
 
There's a scenario that doesn't involve war with the UK. I don't exactly know how it might happen, but I vaguely remember someone in the UK proposing to just make Northern Ireland independent?

If that happens and things go to absolute crap in Northern Ireland, I could see Irish troops entering in, kind of as peacemakers.
One of the doomsday “plans“ that was floated in London during the worst of the Troubles was something like that, but it’s very hard to see how any Cabinet could get away with doing that.
 
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