It also has its similiarities such as the nuking of an American city and story elements. For example, the Black Communist Rebellion is basically the Black Liberation Front from Wolfenstein, both which are equivalent to the Black Panther Party, the Black Hebrew Israelites, and the Nation of Islam led by Louis Farrakhan.
The Man In The High Castle Season 4: What happens after Season 4?
- Thread starter Gillan1220
- Start date
Ficboy
Banned
Any other similarities? I remember watching the first trailer of The Man in the High Castle and it looked pretty impressive.
It also shows how American culture is mixed with Nazi society. John Smith is also reference in Wolftenstein: The New Colossus when B.J. disguises himself as a fireman, the Nazi officer calls him John Smith based on his fake papers.
The ending credits of The New Colossus implied a Second American Revolution. The fact General Witchcroft wanted to declare independence from the Reich and cancelled the SAC strike into BCR territory implied a similar uprising would occur.
Now what I wish is someone would write a fanfiction of what happens next.
The American Reich reunifies the North American continent and becomes a third pole of power. I think any idea of the American Reich returning to the old United States is nonsense; the entire leadership class is complicit in genocide, they're not going to put themselves at the mercy of an electorate.
My headcanon on the alternate timeline visitors is they're tourists to just watch another shitshow.
My headcanon on the alternate timeline visitors is they're tourists to just watch another shitshow.
Ficboy
Banned
Well the alternate timeline visitors of this rather ASB scenario are certainly going to lead to the downfall of Japan and the remnants of Nazi Germany. They already have the technology and knowledge from their world after all.The American Reich reunifies the North American continent and becomes a third pole of power. I think any idea of the American Reich returning to the old United States is nonsense; the entire leadership class is complicit in genocide, they're not going to put themselves at the mercy of an electorate.
My headcanon on the alternate timeline visitors is they're tourists to just watch another shitshow.
Maybe, but few people go to the zoo to free all the animals.
To specify on my headcanon, I interpret the greater multiverse community having an absolutely nihilistic outlook on everything. Since everyone has infinite copies somewhere else, the survival of any one copy is ultimately irrelevant. There's no reason to help anyone out because they're all irrelevant specks of dust in an infinite sea.My headcanon on the alternate timeline visitors is they're tourists to just watch another shitshow.
I think it would have been a lot better if instead of random civilians coming through the portal in large numbers it was armed troops with say armored vehicles. If you want to maintain the same ambiguous note you could have it not be clear what power/world the troops are coming from. Say have the troops not be shown clearly and be shown more as silhouettes.
Seems like pretty much the only way the US reforming/ the resistance winning seems plausible is if they're getting heavy proxy support from something like the OTL US. Ya know provide the resistance the arms, money, manpower, and training that they'd actually need while providing an example of a US that works.
That was something I was pretty disappointed with in the show. They explore the themes of a Cold War between the Nazi's and Japanese and the resistance but don't really show much proxy war support until the 4th season with "China" providing that support to the Black Communist Rebellion. The Nazi's talk about that alt US (that's similar to the OTL US) inevitably winning in Vietnam with the implicit parallel that the Resistance is like the VC and will win despite being massively outgunned. But the entire reason the NVA/VC were able to fight so well for so long was the massive support they were getting from the Warsaw pact (and the PRC until the Sino Soviet split). Same deal with the Mujaheddin in the Soviet/Afghan war. For a insurgent group to actually win in something like the US/Vietnamese war or the Soviet/Afghan war the resistance group needs more then popular support or moral riteoughnous. They need actual support (Arms, muinitions, money, food, medicine, training). It would have been interesting to see the Nazis and Japanese each supplying some of the resistance movements in their opponents territory (the Japanese supplying the Resistance in the Greater Nazi Reich and the Nazi's supplying the anti Japanese resistance in the Japanese Pacific States). Perhaps have the Neutral zone be filled with competing Japanese and Nazi supported paramilitary groups battling for territory and power.
I did propose before Season 3 a fan idea where JFK and Kruschev are aware of the Axis victory world and are supplying the resistance factions on that side. I also made a thread back then comparing 1962 OTL USA and USSR vs 1962 ATL Germany and Japan back then when Season 3 was coming. I hoped for an inter-parallel war that would occur but sadly it never came.
That's because the whole season was rushed. So much wasted potential such as the part where Himmler almost got assassinated and how the American resistance would step up their game after Jahr Null. That would have been interesting to see what power struggle would have erupted amongs the Nazis. We were robbed of a great battle between the Japanese and the Nazis. They were at an uneasy peace and even though Heusmann was arrested after his coup was exposed, Himmler and the Nazi High Command still had plans to attack Japan. Unforgivably, we never saw a the grand showdown between the Resistance-BCR alliance vs Nazi America.
Last edited:
Similarities between Wolfenstein and The Man in the High Caslte
- Axis victory
- United States and rest of the world is occupied by the Axis
- Black nationalist groups (Black Liberation Front and the Black Communist Rebellion)
- Refers to The New Colossus poem
- Statue of Liberty is destroyed
- One American city is nuked. (In TMITHC it's D.C. while in Wolftenstein it's New York)
- Axis victory
- United States and rest of the world is occupied by the Axis
- Black nationalist groups (Black Liberation Front and the Black Communist Rebellion)
- Refers to The New Colossus poem
- Statue of Liberty is destroyed
- One American city is nuked. (In TMITHC it's D.C. while in Wolftenstein it's New York)
Truthfully the ending of S4 should've been Smith and Goertzmann partitioning the Reich, and if I could I'd retroactively make the BCR unpersons for how pointless and OP they were (Japan retreating from the west coast because of a few bombings, really?). John was on a trajectory to reject Nazism (killing his son's doctor, crying after meeting his Jewish comrade who he saw get hauled off to the camps, his displeasure with the "blood and soil" riots in New York, etc.), but instead, the writers made him do a complete 180 in the final episode.
But using what we actually got, here's what I think would happen. Whitcroft would easily get overthrown within hours of calling off the attack on the west coast. Nazism was firmly ingrained in a generation of Americans by this point, and Whitcroft did not have the amount of political strength that Smith had. Some American SS official would take his post and order the full-scale invasion of the former Pacific States. The infighting between the BCR and other resistance groups, along with the Yakuza sabotaging their efforts to resist the Nazis, lead to the conquest taking only a matter of weeks. The entirety of North America is under the American Reich and an ethnic cleansing of the west coast begins, leaving only "Aryans" and "honorary Aryans" as the inhabitants.
But using what we actually got, here's what I think would happen. Whitcroft would easily get overthrown within hours of calling off the attack on the west coast. Nazism was firmly ingrained in a generation of Americans by this point, and Whitcroft did not have the amount of political strength that Smith had. Some American SS official would take his post and order the full-scale invasion of the former Pacific States. The infighting between the BCR and other resistance groups, along with the Yakuza sabotaging their efforts to resist the Nazis, lead to the conquest taking only a matter of weeks. The entirety of North America is under the American Reich and an ethnic cleansing of the west coast begins, leaving only "Aryans" and "honorary Aryans" as the inhabitants.
Here are some OTL Allohistorical Allusions/analogies
- Reich-Japan Crisis = Cuban Missile Crisis (it occurs in parallel thus confirming that Season 1-2 takes place in October 1962)
- Japan testing a nuclear bomb in Monument Valley = The Alamogordo test
- The American Resistance's war of attrition against the Germans and the Japanese = The Vietnam War
- Juliana Crain crossing from JPS territory into Reich Embassy territory = East Germans crossing into West Germany
- Lebensborn Germans partying and smoking LSD = 1960s counterculture/hippie movement
- Jahr Null and the destruction of American monuments such as the Liberty Bell and Statue of Liberty = Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot's Year Zero. The Statue of Liberty destructions mirrors the Chinese Communist Party's crackdown on the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests by tearing the Goddess of Democracy Statue as well as the Taliban destroying the Buddhas of Bamiyan in March 2001
- Hitler Youth rioting in the streets with torches = Unite the Right Rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, August 2017
- Emperor's Withdrawal Speech = Takes some lines from the Emperor's OTL surrender speech "The war isn't going in our favor"
- Japanese chaotic withdrawal from the Pacific States = Fall of Saigon
- Black Communist Rebellion = Heavily influenced by the Black Panther Party with some elements of the Black Hebrew Israelites and the Nation of Islam by Louis Farrakhan as well as the Black Liberation Front from Wolfenstein
- Proposed African-American ethnostate on the West Coast = Republic of New Afrika
- Hoover and the ARBI spying on Reich citizens = In OTL, Hoover did propose to spy on Americans to look for communist sympathizers. Specifically, what the ABRI and the SS do is no different from what the NKVD then KGB, the Stassi, and the Ministry of State Security (MSS) of the PRC do to its citizens.
- The Reich divided between the Americas and Europe = Just like Rome all over again
- Bill Witchcroft proposing to break-off from the Reich = Taiwan declaring independence from the People's Republic of China
- Nazi American invasion of the West Coast = Resembles the Korean War, Vietnam War, and the Taiwanese situation in terms of reunification
- Reich-Japan Crisis = Cuban Missile Crisis (it occurs in parallel thus confirming that Season 1-2 takes place in October 1962)
- Japan testing a nuclear bomb in Monument Valley = The Alamogordo test
- The American Resistance's war of attrition against the Germans and the Japanese = The Vietnam War
- Juliana Crain crossing from JPS territory into Reich Embassy territory = East Germans crossing into West Germany
- Lebensborn Germans partying and smoking LSD = 1960s counterculture/hippie movement
- Jahr Null and the destruction of American monuments such as the Liberty Bell and Statue of Liberty = Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot's Year Zero. The Statue of Liberty destructions mirrors the Chinese Communist Party's crackdown on the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests by tearing the Goddess of Democracy Statue as well as the Taliban destroying the Buddhas of Bamiyan in March 2001
- Hitler Youth rioting in the streets with torches = Unite the Right Rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, August 2017
- Emperor's Withdrawal Speech = Takes some lines from the Emperor's OTL surrender speech "The war isn't going in our favor"
- Japanese chaotic withdrawal from the Pacific States = Fall of Saigon
- Black Communist Rebellion = Heavily influenced by the Black Panther Party with some elements of the Black Hebrew Israelites and the Nation of Islam by Louis Farrakhan as well as the Black Liberation Front from Wolfenstein
- Proposed African-American ethnostate on the West Coast = Republic of New Afrika
- Hoover and the ARBI spying on Reich citizens = In OTL, Hoover did propose to spy on Americans to look for communist sympathizers. Specifically, what the ABRI and the SS do is no different from what the NKVD then KGB, the Stassi, and the Ministry of State Security (MSS) of the PRC do to its citizens.
- The Reich divided between the Americas and Europe = Just like Rome all over again
- Bill Witchcroft proposing to break-off from the Reich = Taiwan declaring independence from the People's Republic of China
- Nazi American invasion of the West Coast = Resembles the Korean War, Vietnam War, and the Taiwanese situation in terms of reunification
Last edited:
Notice how this highway patrolman becomes complacent with Nazi atrocities such as burning the crippled, disabled, and the sick. Heartbreaking to know he claims he fought in the Second World War on the American side and now has fully accepted Nazi ideology.
Then you'd see the same in this heartbreaking scene set in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey in February 1946. How these American servicement who fought for the Stars and Stripes suddenly embrace Nazism to survive, only to turn a blind eye on the crimes the Reich committed...
So this proves just how hard it is to revive the United States of America.
Then you'd see the same in this heartbreaking scene set in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey in February 1946. How these American servicement who fought for the Stars and Stripes suddenly embrace Nazism to survive, only to turn a blind eye on the crimes the Reich committed...
So this proves just how hard it is to revive the United States of America.
It was surreal to see them all turn their backs on their fellow Americans so fast. Granted, 1940's America was a pretty racist place, but it was still very strange to watch. Especially with the combination of American uniforms and Nazi armbands.
I could understand Smith's part since he had a child to raise and living in the Neutral Zone is easier said than done.
I would have liked to see some exploration of the conflict (of values if not necessarily widespread violence) between the Jahr Null generation and the older people who remember the USA (both resistance sympathisers and senior people in the American Reich. Something like the activities of the Red Guards in China might have been interesting.