List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage

[CaptainShadow]

Eleanor marries in Aragon, like IOTL, her sister Constance (born in 1308, IOTL died in 1310) is Queen of England.

Eleanor of Castile is listed as queen......

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Eleanor of Castile is listed as queen......

Fixed, thanks!

 

[VVD0D95]

Based on the results of this poll

Robert I of Scotland (b.1274: d.1320) m Isabella of Mar (b.1274: d.1326)

Issue:

Marjorie Bruce (b.1296)

Robert II of Scotland (b.1298)

Isabella Bruce (b.1300)

Stillborn (b.1301:d.1301)

David Bruce, Earl of Annandale (b.1304)

Gartnait (b.1310)

 

[VVD0D95]

Another one tentatively associated with the above tree:

Robert II of Scotland (b.1298: d.1350) m Catherine of Valois (b.1303: d.1351)

Issue:

Robert III of Scotland (b.1319)

Isabella of Scotland (b.1321)

Stillborn son (b.1324: d.1324)

David of Scotland (b.1325: d.1327)

Catherine of Scotland (b.1327)

Alexander, Earl of Annandale (b.1329)

Stillborn daughter (b.1330: d.1330)

 

[HortenseMancini]

If Maximilian choose the name of his grandson no way that name will be Frederick. The most likely choices are Maximilian or Charles (followed by Ernest and Philip). Joanna would remain with her son (and will be the formal regent of his lands aka Burgundy) and is pretty unlikely who her mental health will be afflicted at this point.
Also Maximilian II/Charles V will NOT marry an infanta of Spain or Portugal but Anna of Bohemia and Hungary.

Ah, that’s a fair point about the name of Juana’s son. I guess we’ll go with Charles. And I also hadn’t thought about the regency in Burgundy. Juana is a young, foreign woman but she is the monarch’s mother and I also can’t see anyone giving control back to Maximilian so she’ll have to do. I do think her mental health with be affected though, considering that she was obsessed with Philip from pretty much the moment she met him and they’ve been married for nearly two years by the time of his death ITTL.

And I have to ask, who do you see Isabel of Portugal and Isabel of Castile marrying ITTL? I don’t think there are any kings available, since I imagine Mary Tudor the Elder would go to Denmark ITTL. Maybe Ferdinand of Calabria? The Duke of Milan?

 

[isabella]

Ah, that’s a fair point about the name of Juana’s son. I guess we’ll go with Charles. And I also hadn’t thought about the regency in Burgundy. Juana is a young, foreign woman but she is the monarch’s mother and I also can’t see anyone giving control back to Maximilian so she’ll have to do. I do think her mental health with be affected though, considering that she was obsessed with Philip from pretty much the moment she met him and they’ve been married for nearly two years by the time of his death ITTL.

And I have to ask, who do you see Isabel of Portugal and Isabel of Castile marrying ITTL? I don’t think there are any kings available, since I imagine Mary Tudor the Elder would go to Denmark ITTL. Maybe Ferdinand of Calabria? The Duke of Milan?

Juana do not need to have real power in Burgundy, but only being formally regent.
Considering who Juana in OTL was not mad but had other lesser troubles (mostly caused by unhappiness and pressures who ATL will not exist) is likely she will be called the Sad Duchess or something like that as she would be sad, melancholic, unhappy but nothing more...
Mary Tudor the Elder in Denmark is pretty likely. For the two Isabellas:

• Ferdinand, Duke of Calabria can work only if he get back his Kingdom of Naples
• Maximilian Sforza can work if he can get back and keep his Duchy (but Bona Sforza would be a better bride for him)
• the son of Louis XII and Anne of Brittany born in 1500 or 1501 if he lived
• Henry II of Navarre
• Sigismund I of Poland (for Isabella of Castile)
• the son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon (if he is born not later than 1508 would work for Isabella or Beatrice of Portugal)

 

[CaptainShadow]

Here's a family tree I'm thinking of for a Richard of Conisburgh TL I might end up writing someday:

Richard of Conisburgh, Duke of York (b. 1385 d.1452) m. Anne, Countess of March (b. 1388 d.1471)

A) Isabel of Cambridge (b. 1409 d. 1464) m. Henry Bourchier (b.1404 d. 1469)

B) Henry, Marquis of Cambridge, later Duke of York (b.1410 d. 1469) m. Mary, Countess of Bedford* (b.1412 d.1468)

C) Richard, Earl of Cork (b.1411 d. 1467) m. Cecily Neville (b.1413 d. 1483)

D) Anne of Cambridge, (b.1412 d. 1461) m. Thomas Clifford, 8th baron of Clifford (b.1413 d. 1465)

E) Stillborn son (b.1413 d. 1413)

F) Stillborn daughter (b. 1415 d. 1415)

G) Margaret of York (b. 1415 d. 1420)

H) Cardinal Edmund of York, Bishop of Bath (b. 1417 d. 1460)

I) Elizabeth of York (b.1420 d. 1499) m. Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland (b.1421 d. 1453)

J) Stillborn Daughter (b. 1423 d. 1423)

K) Arthur, Earl, later Duke of Kent (b. 1425 d.1502) m. Margaret, Countess of Somerset** (b.1427 d. 1479)

L) Edward, Bishop of London (b. 1425 d. 1483)

M) Mary of York (b. 1428 d. 1510) m. John De Vere, 12th earl of Oxford (b.1426 d. 1473)

N) Joan of York, Abbess of Whitby (b.1428 d. 1478)

* ATL daughter of John of Bedford and Margaret of Nevers.
** ATL daughter of Henry 2nd earl of Somerset and Margaret De Beauchamp, countess of Warwick. She ends up inheriting because the OTL Duke of Warwick is born female



Lemme know your thoughts guys!

Making a couple of changes, mainly making the girl's of _______ the place where their father had his highest title at the time. Also, Margaret doesn't kick the bucket in 1420.

Richard of Conisburgh, Duke of York (b. 1385 d.1452) m. Anne, Countess of March (b. 1388 d.1471)

A) Isabel of Conisburgh (b. 1409 d. 1464) m. Henry Bourchier, 1st Earl of Essex (b.1404 d. 1469)

B) Henry, Marquis of Cambridge, later Duke of York (b.1410 d. 1469) m. Mary, Countess of Bedford* (b.1412 d.1468)

C) Richard, Earl of Cork (b.1411 d. 1467) m. Cecily Neville (b.1413 d. 1483)

D) Anne of Kent, (b.1412 d. 1461) m. Thomas Clifford, 8th baron of Clifford, later 1st Earl of Clifford (b.1413 d. 1465)

E) Stillborn son (b.1413 d. 1413)

F) Stillborn daughter (b. 1415 d. 1415)

G) Margaret of Cambridge (b. 1415 d. 1460) m. Henry Holland, 3rd Duke of Exeter (b. 1418 d.1453)

H) Cardinal Edmund of York, Bishop of Bath (b. 1417 d. 1460)

I) Elizabeth of York (b.1420 d. 1499) m. Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland (b.1421 d. 1453)

J) Stillborn Daughter (b. 1423 d. 1423)

K) Arthur, Earl, later Duke of Kent (b. 1425 d.1502) m. Margaret, Countess of Somerset** (b.1427 d. 1479)

L) Edward, Bishop of London (b. 1425 d. 1483)

M) Mary of York (b. 1428 d. 1510) m. John De Vere, 1st Duke of Oxford (b.1426 d. 1473)

N) Joan of York, Abbess of Whitby (b.1428 d. 1478)

* ATL daughter of John of Bedford and Margaret of Nevers.
** ATL daughter of Henry 2nd earl of Somerset and Margaret De Beauchamp, countess of Warwick. She ends up inheriting because the OTL Duke of Warwick is born female.

_________________________________________________________________

Here's the Henry V family tree that I was thinking of for the same TL, with everyone semi-unrealistically the same age, to the surprise of no one who knows me:
Henry V of England (b.1386 d. 1440) m. Blanche of Navarre (b.1387 d.1443)*

A) John II of England (b.1422 d.1458) m. Yolande of Naples (b. 1424 d. 1489)**

B) Henry VI of England (b.1424 d. 1470) m. Margaret Stewart (b. 1424 d.1485)

C) Thomas I of England (b.1426 d. 1495) m. Jacqueline of Gloucester (b. 1427 d. 1488)***

*Her elder sister lives, and has surviving kids, so she doesn't become queen of Navarre.

** Rene of Anjou keeps his Neapolitan throne, largely with English support, and marries his eldest daughter to the english heir.
*** ATL daughter Humphrey of Gloucester and Jacqueline of Hainaut.

 

[HortenseMancini]

Considering who Juana in OTL was not mad but had other lesser troubles (mostly caused by unhappiness and pressures who ATL will not exist) is likely she will be called the Sad Duchess or something like that as she would be sad, melancholic, unhappy but nothing more...

Yes, she will definitely be the 'dame de deuil' ITTL.

Mary Tudor the Elder in Denmark is pretty likely. For the two Isabellas:

• Ferdinand, Duke of Calabria can work only if he get back his Kingdom of Naples
• Maximilian Sforza can work if he can get back and keep his Duchy (but Bona Sforza would be a better bride for him)
• the son of Louis XII and Anne of Brittany born in 1500 or 1501 if he lived
• Henry II of Navarre
• Sigismund I of Poland (for Isabella of Castile)
• the son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon (if he is born not later than 1508 would work for Isabella or Beatrice of Portugal)

Thank you so much for the recommendations!! I'll definitely figure something out with all these options...

 

[HortenseMancini]

Another tree...this one for my María y Miguel TL (@UnaiB you might like this!). It's kind of rough. Any input is greatly appreciated!

HOUSE OF TRASTÁMARA
Isabel I, Queen of Castile (b. 1451, d. 1506) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1453, d. 1516) in 1469, has issue

1) Isabel of Aragon and Castile, Princess of Asturias and Queen of Portugal (b. 1470, d. 1504) m. Afonso, Prince of Portugal (b. 1475, d. 1491) in 1490, had no issue (a); Manuel I, King of Portugal (b. 1469) in 1497, had issue​

1) Miguel da Paz, King of Spain (b. 1498) m. Maria, Queen of Spain (b. 1498) in 1512, had issue​

2) Fernando of Portugal, Duke of Viseu (b. 1502, d. 1540) m. Catalina of Spain (b. 1503) in 1525, had issue​

3) Isabel of Portugal, Holy Roman Empress (b. 1503) m. Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) in 1526, had issue​

4) Beatriz of Portugal, Duchess of Savoy (b. 1504) m. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b. 1486) in 1521, had issue​

2) Juan of Aragon and Castile, Prince of Asturias and Girona (b. 1478, d. 1506) m. Margaret of Austria (b. 1480) in 1497, had issue​

1) María, Queen of Spain (b. 1498) m. Miguel da Paz, King of Spain (b. 1498) in 1512, had issue​

2) Alfonso of Castile and Aragon (b. 1500, d. 1502)​

3) Isabel of Castile and Aragon, Holy Roman Empress (b. 1501, d. 1525) m. Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) in 1522, had issue​

4) Catalina of Castile and Aragon, Duchess of Viseu (b. 1503, d. 1537) m. Ferdinand of Portugal, Duke of Viseu (b. 1502) in 1525, had issue​

5) Blanca of Castile and Aragon, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1505) m. Louis II Jagiellon, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1506) in 1522, had issue​

6) Juan III “El póstumo”, King of Castile (b. and d. 1507)​

3) Juana of Aragon and Castile, Duchess of Burgundy (b. 1479, d. 1555) m. Philip of Austria, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1478, d. 1498) in 1496, had issue​

1) Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) m. Isabel of Castile and Aragon (b. 1501, d. 1525) in 1522, had issue (a); Isabel of Portugal (b. 1503, d. ?) in 1526, had issue (b)​

4) Maria of Aragon and Castile, Duchess of Savoy (twin of stillborn child; b. 1482) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, d. 1504) in 1500, had no issue​

5) Stillborn child (twin of Maria; b. and d. 1482)​

6) Catalina of Aragon and Castile, Queen of England (b. 1485) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486) in 1502, had no issue (a); Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491) in 1505, had issue (b)​

Issue TBD​

​

​

Somes notes on TTL:

• Our POD is necessarily October 1497. At this time ITTL, Juan, Prince of Asturias manages to recover from a severe illness. As IOTL, Margaret of Austria is newly pregnant at the time and her husband’s survival allows her to carry to term and give birth to a small but healthy baby girl, named María in honor of the Blessed Virgin, in May 1498.
• Isabel of Aragon survives giving birth to Miguel da Paz in August 1498 but her health is in rough shape afterwards; she does not conceive again until 1501 and dies in 1504 after delivering her fourth child and second daughter. The distraught Manuel of Portugal hesitantly remarries to Germaine of Foix in 1506, hoping to provide Portugal with another infante, but their marriage results in the birth of only one short lived son whose difficult delivery renders Germaine infertile.
• After less than a year of marriage, Philip of Austria, Duke of Burgundy suddenly dies in Brussels in April 1498 at age 19. Juana of Aragon, who had fallen deeply in love/lust with her husband, is bereft...and newly pregnant. Her father-in-law, Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian, commands her to remain in Brussels to wait out her pregnancy. Miraculously, she manages to carry it to term. Juana gives birth to a healthy son in November 1498 and Maximilian quickly takes custody of his new grandson, whom he names Frederick after his own father. Juana is then returned to Spain in early 1499. Her mental health is clearly much deteriorated by this point, and so a second marriage does not seem to be in the cards for her.
• In October 1506, Juan, Prince of Asturias finally (at least in light of his frequent ill health) dies of typhus at age 28. Queen Isabel la Católica is devastated by her son’s death, following so closely after the loss of her daughter Isabel in 1504, and dies in November 1506, a heartbroken mother. Through all of this, Margaret of Austria happens to be pregnant for a sixth and final time and she gives birth to a posthumous son, named Juan in honor of his late father, in March 1507. As the only son of the Prince of Asturias, the newborn succeeds as King Juan III of Castile from the moment of his birth. Unfortunately El póstumo, as young King Juan is known, was born prematurely and proves to be quite sickly. He dies in May 1507 at barely two months of age.
• Following the death of Juan el póstumo, Margaret of Austria sets aside her (pretty immense) grief and moves to have Infanta María established as Queen of Castile. Her claim, however, is stoutly contested by Manuel of Portugal, who claims the Castilian throne in the name of his son (and María’s cousin) Prince Miguel. Manuel and Margaret find themselves at loggerheads and a meeting in July 1507 under the olive tree at Veracruz, a traditional rendezvous point for the monarchs of the Iberian peninsula, goes nowhere. Margaret prepares to have her daughter crowned at Burgos while Manuel has his son crowned in absentia and begins planning an invasion of Castile.
• It takes the intervention of Ferdinand of Aragon to prevent war between his daughter-in-law and son-in-law. During the lifetime of Isabel of Aragon, an unofficial betrothal had existed between Infanta María and Prince Miguel. Ferdinand simply proposes, in fall 1507, to formalize this engagement, which would consolidate the claims of the daughter’s son and the son’s daughter. Manuel and Margaret grudgingly agree to this and Ferdinand, in an ultimate move to pacify the two sides, has Infanta María and Prince Miguel crowned Queen and King of Castile in a joint ceremony at the cathedral in Burgos in January 1508. Shortly after, their betrothal is ratified and they will marry in September 1512 once Prince Miguel, who is slightly younger than Infanta María, has turned 14.
• The future Frederick IV is initially quite hostile to the idea of marriage with Isabel of Castile. He had grown up expecting to marry her older sister María and he is much soured towards his Iberian relatives after María’s 1512 marriage to Miguel da Paz. However, his paternal aunt and paternal grandfather remain determined that Frederick will marry Isabel and the young girl is even brought to Mechelen in the Low Countries in 1514 so that the prospective couple can meet. Frederick admits that Isabel is beautiful and charming but it is only after the death of Emperor Maximilian in 1518 that he finally softens to his late grandfather’s wishes and agrees to the betrothal, though their union is not solemnized in person until 1522.

Updated family tree, including the issue of Catalina and Henry VIII.

HOUSE OF TRASTÁMARA
Isabel I, Queen of Castile (b. 1451) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1453) in 1469, has issue

1) Isabel of Aragon and Castile, Princess of Asturias and Queen of Portugal (b. 1470, d. 1504) m. Afonso, Prince of Portugal (b. 1475, d. 1491) in 1490, had no issue (a); Manuel I, King of Portugal (b. 1469) in 1497, had issue​

1) Miguel da Paz, King of Spain and Portugal (b. 1498) m. María, Queen of Spain (b. 1498) in 1512, had issue​

2) Fernando of Portugal, Duke of Viseu (b. 1502, d. 1540) m. Guiomar Coutinho, 5th Countess of Mariavla and 3rd Countess of Loulé (b. 1504) in 1524, had issue​

3) Isabel of Portugal, Princess of Wales (b. 1503, d. 1551) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1507) in 1522, had issue​

4) Beatriz of Portugal, Duchess of Savoy (b. 1504) m. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b. 1486) in 1521, had issue​

2) Juan of Aragon and Castile, Prince of Asturias and Girona (b. 1478, d. 1506) m. Margaret of Austria (b. 1480) in 1497, had issue​

1) María, Queen of Spain and Portugal (b. 1498) m. Miguel da Paz, King of Spain (b. 1498) in 1512, had issue​

2) Alfonso of Castile and Aragon (b. 1500, d. 1502)​

3) Isabel of Castile and Aragon, Queen of Poland and Grand Duchess of Lithuania (b. 1501, d. 1526) m. Sigismund I Jagiellon, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania (b. 1467) in 1517, had issue​

4) Catalina of Castile and Aragon, Queen of Navarre (b. 1503, d. ?) m. Henry II, King of Navarre (b. 1503) in 1522, had issue​

5) Blanca of Castile and Aragon, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1505) m. Louis II Jagiellon, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1506) in 1522, had issue​

6) Juan III “El póstumo”, King of Castile (b. and d. 1507)​

3) Juana of Aragon and Castile, Duchess of Burgundy (b. 1479, d. 1555) m. Philip of Austria, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1478, d. 1498) in 1496, had issue​

1) Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) m. Anna of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1503, d. 1526) in 1521, had issue (a); Margaret Tudor (b. 1511) in 1528, had issue (b)​

4) Maria of Aragon and Castile, Duchess of Savoy (twin of stillborn child; b. 1482) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, d. 1504) in 1500, had no issue​

5) Stillborn child (twin of Maria; b. and d. 1482)​

6) Catalina of Aragon and Castile, Queen of England (b. 1485) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486) in 1502, had no issue (a); Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491) in 1505, had issue (b) [1]​

1b) Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1507, d. 1534) m. Isabel of Portugal (b. 1503) in 1525, had issue​

2b) Elizabeth Tudor (b. and d. 1509)​

3b) Mary Tudor, Queen of Scots (b. 1510) m. James V, King of Scots (b. 1512) [2] in 1528, had issue​

4b) Margaret Tudor, Holy Roman Empress (b. 1511) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) in 1528, had issue​

5b) Katherine Tudor (b. 1513, d. 1518)​

6b) Edmund Tudor, Duke of York (b. 1516) m. Anne Bourchier, 7th Baroness Bourchier (b. 1517) in 1532, had issue​

7b) John Tudor, Duke of Somerset (b. 1518) m. Mary Howard (b. 1519) in 1536, had issue​

8b) Cecily Tudor, Duchess of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b. 1519) m. William the Rich, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b. 1514) in 1538, had issue​

9b) Henry Tudor, Cardinal and Archbishop of York (b. 1520)​

10b) Thomas Tudor, Duke of Exeter (b. 1522) [3] m. Anne Dormer (b. 1525) [4] in 1544, had issue​

11b) Eleanor Tudor (b. 1524, d. 1527)​

​

​

[1] Yes, Catherine and Henry have 11 children ITTL. Catherine spends far less time fasting and damaging her health in between her marriages ITTL and her very first pregnancy results in a healthy son, which helps take the pressure off of future pregnancies and allows her children to be born healthier.
[2] This is an unhappy marriage from the very beginning, with the plain and somber Mary failing to keep the attention of her sensuous and fun-loving younger husband.
[3] Exeter is an old Beaufort title so it is deemed appropriate enough for Henry and Catherine's fifth surviving son since Somerset, Bedford, and Richmond are already being used when Thomas is born. Henry Tudor the Younger is actually Duke of Bedford as a young boy and Henry Fitzroy, who is still born ITTL, is the earl of Richmond.
[4] Anne Dormer is an attendant of, first, Cecily Tudor and then Dowager Princess Isabel. She catches Thomas's attention and they marry clandestinely, causing a scandal which is only resolved with Henry VIII's death in 1546.

 

[isabella]

Updated family tree, including the issue of Catalina and Henry VIII.

HOUSE OF TRASTÁMARA
Isabel I, Queen of Castile (b. 1451) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1453) in 1469, has issue

1) Isabel of Aragon and Castile, Princess of Asturias and Queen of Portugal (b. 1470, d. 1498) m. Afonso, Prince of Portugal (b. 1475, d. 1491) in 1490, had no issue (a); Manuel I, King of Portugal (b. 1469) in 1497, had issue​

1) Miguel da Paz, King of Spain and Portugal (b. 1498) m. María, Queen of Spain (b. 1498) in 1512, had issue​

2) Fernando of Portugal, Duke of Viseu (b. 1502, d. 1540) m.​

3) Isabel of Portugal, Princess of Wales (b. 1503, d. 1551) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1507) in 1522, had issue​

4) Beatriz of Portugal, Duchess of Savoy (b. 1504) m. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b. 1486) in 1521, had issue​

2) Juan of Aragon and Castile, Prince of Asturias and Girona (b. 1478, d. 1506) m. Margaret of Austria (b. 1480) in 1497, had issue​

1) María, Queen of Spain and Portugal (b. 1498) m. Miguel da Paz, King of Spain (b. 1498) in 1512, had issue​

2) Fernando of Castile and Aragon (b. 1500, d. 1502)​

3) Isabel of Castile and Aragon, Queen of Poland and Grand Duchess of Lithuania (b. 1501, d. 1526) m. Sigismund I Jagiellon, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania (b. 1467) in 1517, had issue​

4) Catalina of Castile and Aragon, Queen of Navarre (b. 1503, d. ?) m. Henry II, King of Navarre (b. 1503) in 1522, had issue​

5) Blanca of Castile and Aragon, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1505) m. Louis II Jagiellon, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1506) in 1522, had issue​

6) Juan III “El póstumo”, King of Castile (b. and d. 1507)​

3) Juana of Aragon and Castile, Duchess of Burgundy (b. 1479, d. 1555) m. Philip of Austria, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1478, d. 1498) in 1496, had issue​

1) Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) m. Anna of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1503, d. 1526) in 1521, had issue (a); Margaret Tudor (b. 1511) in 1528, had issue (b)​

4) Maria of Aragon and Castile, Duchess of Savoy (twin of stillborn child; b. 1482) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, d. 1504) in 1500, had no issue​

5) Stillborn child (twin of Maria; b. and d. 1482)​

6) Catalina of Aragon and Castile, Queen of England (b. 1485) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486) in 1502, had no issue (a); Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491) in 1505, had issue (b) [1]​

1b) Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1507, d. 1534) m. Isabel of Portugal (b. 1503) in 1525, had issue​

2b) Elizabeth Tudor (b. and d. 1509)​

3b) Mary Tudor, Queen of Scots (b. 1510) m. James V, King of Scots (b. 1512) [2] in 1528, had issue​

4b) Margaret Tudor, Holy Roman Empress (b. 1511) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) in 1528, had issue​

5b) Katherine Tudor (b. 1513, d. 1518)​

6b) Edmund Tudor, Duke of York (b. 1516) m. Anne Bourchier, 7th Baroness Bourchier (b. 1517) in 1532, had issue​

7b) John Tudor, Duke of Somerset (b. 1518) m. Mary Howard (b. 1519) in 1536, had issue​

8b) Cecily Tudor, Duchess of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b. 1519) m. William the Rich, Duke of Jülich-Cleves-Berg (b. 1514) in 1538, had issue​

9b) Henry Tudor, Cardinal and Archbishop of York (b. 1520)​

10b) Thomas Tudor, Duke of Exeter (b. 1522) [3] m. Anne Dormer (b. 1525) [4] in 1544, had issue​

11b) Eleanor Tudor (b. 1524, d. 1527)​

​

​

[1] Yes, Catherine and Henry have 11 children ITTL. Catherine spends far less time fasting and damaging her health in between her marriages ITTL and her very first pregnancy results in a healthy son, which helps take the pressure off of future pregnancies and allows her children to be born healthier.
[2] This is an unhappy marriage from the very beginning, with the plain and somber Mary failing to keep the attention of her sensuous and fun-loving younger husband.
[3] Exeter is an old Beaufort title so it is deemed appropriate enough for Henry and Catherine's fifth surviving son since Somerset, Bedford, and Richmond are already being used when Thomas is born. Henry Tudor the Younger is actually Duke of Bedford as a young boy and Henry Fitzroy, who is still born ITTL, is the earl of Richmond.
[4] Anne Dormer is an attendant of, first, Cecily Tudor and then Dowager Princess Isabel. She catches Thomas's attention and they marry clandestinely, causing a scandal which is only resolved with Henry VIII's death in 1546.

That is prefect. Only two things: is unlikely who Henry VIII will give Richmond (his own grandfather‘s title) to a bastard, when he has legitimate sons and we still have Pembroke for another son. I think more likely seeing an Earldom of Exeter for Fitzroy (that title was given to a Beaufort but was created for one of the half-brothers of Richard II, and was restored to his heirs after that Beaufort) if he get an Earldom of his own, but titles like Richmond and Pembroke, will be reserved to the main line

 

[Sarthak]

POD - Tang Emperor accepts the Nepalese offer of marrying Crown Princess Bhrikuti to Imperial Prince Li Chengqian with the Prince being King Consort.

Lichavvi Dynasty
-----
1. Maharaja Amshuverma Lichavvi (573 - 626 AD) m. Bhoga Devi. (events: Nepal-Tang Alliance)

2. Maharani Bhrikuti Lichavvi (616 AD - 671 AD) m. Li Chengqian. (events: Great Himalayan War (Nepal + Tang vs Tibet))​

a. Shivadeva Lichavvi-Li. (died infant) (637 AD - 638 AD)​

b. Manadeva Lichavvi-Li (640 AD - 702 AD)​

c. Ying Yue Lichavvi-Li (642 - 698 AD) m. King Rorang Lo-Manthang of Mustang.​

Lichavvi-Li Dynasty

1. Maharajah Mandeva III Lichavvi-Li (640 AD - 702 AD) m. Queen Choegyal of Tibet. (events: Conquest of Sikkim)

a. stillborn child. (664 AD)​

b. Manadeva Lichavvi-Li (666 AD - 669 AD)​

c. Amshuverma Lichavvi-Li (668 AD - 720 AD)​

d. stillborn child (673 AD)​

2. Maharajah Amshuverma II Lichavvi-Li (668 AD - 720 AD) m. Queen Sita Sen of Garhwal (events: Second Great Himalayan War)

a. Bo Lichavvi-Li (692 AD - 748 AD) ​

b. Yu Yan Lichavvi-Li (696 AD - 753 AD) m. King Manthala Lo-Manthang of Mustang.​

3. Maharajah Bo Lichavvi-Li (692 AD - 748 AD) m. Queen Li Ling of Tang. (events: Third Great Himalayan War)

a. Mingmei Lichavvi-Li (626 AD - 677 AD) m. King Ramverma of Jajarkot.​

b. Shivadeva Lichavvi-Li (729 AD - 781 AD) ​

c. stillborn child.​

4. Maharajah Shivadeva III Lichavvi-Li (729 AD - 781 AD) m. Queen Amrita Malla of Kasthamandap. (events: War of Bhutanese Conquest)

a. Manadeva Lichavvi-Li (753 AD - 799 AD) ​

b. Shivadeva Lichavvi-Li (756 AD - 804 AD) m. Queen Amrata of Bhadgoan.​

c. Amrata Lichavvi-Li (760 AD - 809 AD) m. King Gorukha Sen of Tanahun.​

5. Maharajah Manadeva IV Lichavvi-Li (753 AD - 799 AD) m. Queen Leki of Mustang. (events: Invasion of Garhwal)

a. Shunami Lichavvi-Li (781 AD - 841 AD) m. King Rorang Simroun of Simrougarh.​

b. Ai Lichavvi-Li (783 AD - 846 AD) m. King Amargupta of Magadha.​

c. Amshuverma Lichavvi-Li (785 AD - 850 AD) ​

6. Maharajah Amshuverma III Lichavvi-Li (785 AD - 850 AD) m. Queen Li Qui of China. (events: Age of Culture and Prosperity)

a. Manadeva Lichavvi-Li (805 AD - 809 AD)​

b. Aiko Lichavvi-Li (807 AD - 876 AD) m. Maharajah Shivadeva IV Lichavvi-Li of Nepala.​

c. Shivadeva Lichavvi-Li (809 AD - 878 AD) ​

7. Maharajah Shivadeva IV Lichavvi-Li (809 AD - 878 AD) m. Aiko Lichavvi-Li (sister marriage) (events: Brother-Sister Marriage Scandal, Conquest of Kangra)

a. Manadeva Lichavvi-Li (830 AD - 834 AD)​

b. Shivadeva Lichavvi-Li (832 AD - 839 AD)​

c. Jayadeva Lichavvi-Li (833 AD - 840 AD)​

d. Bo Lichavvi-Li (836 AD - 896 AD) ​

e. Amrata Lichavvi-Li (840 AD - 902 AD) m. Maharajah Sukaphaa of Assam.​

8. Maharajah Bo II Lichavvi-Li (836 AD - 896 AD) m. Queen Meiling of Yunnan. (events: Conquest of Kashmir)

a. Amrita Lichavvi-Li (857 AD - 888 AD) m. King Rohale Sen of Garhwal​

b. Amshuverma Lichavvi-Li (861 AD - 920 AD) ​

​

​

---------

Would make quite an interesting ATL if the offer was accepted, of course I'm too lazy to write it......

 

[isabella]

Work in progress as always... French wank (see who I can do them, if I want?) @Jan Olbracht @Kellan Sullivan @curlyhairedhippie @The_Most_Happy @FalconHonour @Awkwardvulture @The Professor enjoy it because is unlikely I will do again something like that
A Burgundian Queen for France

Louis XI, King of France (1423-1483) married a) Margaret of Scotland (1424-1445) in 1436, b) Charlotte of Savoy (1441-1472) in 1451 c) Mary, Duchess of Burgundy (1457-1482) in 1473

1. b) Louis (1458 – 1460)
2. b) Joachim (1459)
3. b) Louise (1460)
4. b) Anne (b. 1461) married a) Nicholas of Anjou, Duke of Lorraine (1448-1476) in 1472 b) Pierre II, Duke of Bourbon (1438-1503) in 1477
   1. a) Isabelle II, Duchess of Lorraine (b. 1476) married Philip III, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1475)
   2. b) Charles III, Duke of Bourbon (b. 1488) married Germaine of Foix (b. 1488)
   3. c) Suzanne of Bourbon (b. 1491) married Charles IV, Duke d’Alençon (b. 1489)
5. b) Joan (b. 1464) married Louis II, Duke d’Orleans (b. 1462) in 1476 annulled in 1487 without issues
6. b) Louis (1466)
7. b) Charles VIII, King of France (1470-1498) married Philippa of Guelders (b. 1467)
8. b) Francis, Duke of Berry (1472-1473)
9. c) Philip II, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1475) married Isabelle II, Duchess of Lorraine (b. 1476)
   1. Louis XII, King of France (b. 1492) married Anne Marie d’Orleans, Duchess of Brittany (b. 1498)
   2. other issues
10. c) Madeleine (b. 1478) married ?
11. c) John, Duke of Berry (b. 1480) married Charlotte of Naples (b. 1480)
12. c) Eleanor (b. 1482) married?

 

[isabella]

I need some suggestion for the missing matches...

 

[CaptainShadow]

Suzanne of Bourbon (b. 1491) married ?

Francis of Angouleme? (I don't know much about internal French politics)

Charles VIII, King of France (1470-1498) married ?

Elizabeth of York? Or Cecily?

 

[isabella]

Francis of Angouleme? (I don't know much about internal French politics)

Elizabeth of York? Or Cecily?

The York girls would not work (as I would like no butterfly for either England or Navarre right now) and Francis of Angouleme will likely never be born...
I guess Suzanne can marry Alençon. Marguerite (ATL step-daughter of Berry) will marry Gaston of Foix, and I guess Germaine can marry Charles III of Bourbon

 

[CaptainShadow]

(as I would like no butterfly for either England or Navarre right now)

Rage quits cuz Tudor

 

[isabella]

Rage quits cuz Tudor

Well, if I can keep the Yorks in power usually I do it, but now would be only a big headache (also planning things with a different Navarre)

 

[kasumigenx]

Louis XII m. Joanna of France div. 1499(a) Anne of Brittany d. 1514(b) Catherine of Navarre(c)

1b. Claude of France b. 1499 m. Henry II of Navarre

2b. Renee of France b. 1510 m. Ercole of Este

3b. Charles IX of France b. 1513 m. Mary Tudor the Younger

4c. Henry, Duke of Orleans b. 1515

5c. Louise of France b. 1518



Claude of France m. Henry II of Navarre(a)

1a. Henry III of Navarre February 28, 1519

2a. Madeleine of Navarre August 10, 1520

3a. Charles of Navarre b. January 22, 1522

4a. Margaret of Navarre b. June 5, 1523

5a. Louise of Navarre b. August 19, 1524

 

[kasumigenx]

Eleanor of Aquitaine m. Louis VII(a)

1a. Marie of France b. 1145 m. Berenguer Ramon II of Provence

1a1a. Ramon Berenguer III of Provence and Melguil

2a. Philippe II of France b. 1146 m. Adele of Champagne

2a1a. Alice of France b. 1163 m. Alfonso VIII of Castile

2a2a. Louis VIII b. 1165 m. Isabella of Hainault

2a3a. Alienor of France b. 1170 m. Alexios II Commenos

3a. Alix of France b. 1150 m. Bela III of Hungary(a)

4a. Guilhem X of Aquitaine b. 1152 m. Azalais of Toulouse(a)
4a1a. Guilhem XI of Aquitaine b. 1176

 

[kasumigenx]

Henry II of England m. Constance of France(a)

1a. William b. 1153

2a. Henry b. 1155

3a. Matilda b. 1156

4a. Richard b. 1157

5a. Geoffrey b. 1158

6a. Constance b. 1162

7a. Alice b. 1165

8a. John b. 1166