Rearm the ANZACs for the Pacific War.

I grew up in Mackay on the Coast of Queensland and we used to swim in the creeks. By the time i was 18 they had stopped shooting Crocs and the Pioneer river was off limits again. When i was in my mid 30's i had a holiday in a resort on the beach i used to walk to as i grew up. A 3-4 metre Croc was sunnying itself just above the high tide line. It is kinda scary to be 30 metres from a croc that can outrun you.

Now Drop Bears are scary but generally i tell tourists to rub Eucalyptus oil in their Hair to make you smell like a Koala. That makes them think your not going to taste so good.
 
I grew up in Mackay on the Coast of Queensland ......

Now Drop Bears are scary but generally i tell tourists to rub Eucalyptus oil in their Hair to make you smell like a Koala. That makes them think your not going to taste so good.

Drop bears!!

I rather wrestle a white pointer or a 6 meter salty (croc), than a drop bear!
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When I went off to Kangaroo'82 there was a most amusing RO (Routine Order) issued by the Exercise authorities about the dangers of Drop Bears. Apparently it was why Indigenous Australians were routinely seen, standing on one leg, leaning on a spear in that rather classic pose that they depicted in. It stopped the Drop Bears from landing on top of them...
 
When I went off to Kangaroo'82 there was a most amusing RO (Routine Order) issued by the Exercise authorities about the dangers of Drop Bears. Apparently it was why Indigenous Australians were routinely seen, standing on one leg, leaning on a spear in that rather classic pose that they depicted in. It stopped the Drop Bears from landing on top of them...


Really? In 1982? Surprised anyone talked of Drop Bears that long ago. IIRC, they became a feature of popular culture in the last 20 years.
 
When I went off to Kangaroo'82 there was a most amusing RO (Routine Order) issued by the Exercise authorities about the dangers of Drop Bears. Apparently it was why Indigenous Australians were routinely seen, standing on one leg, leaning on a spear in that rather classic pose that they depicted in. It stopped the Drop Bears from landing on top of them...

Apparently there is a patch of scrub up near Townsville that the Forces boys say hides some especially aggressive cassowaries. Makes training interesting.
 
So what can we do on the cheap within Middle East / Singapore deployment, to pay the insurance premium?


Restructure to a cadre form to support planned maximum voluntary enlistment.
Exercise on paper.
Exercise around the People’s Republic it Broken Hill (UAP will enjoy this, ALP less so).
Exercise in FNQ.

Anyone got ideas around the Equivalent for the Navy? I don’t think the RAAF is going to be able to work out long range naval patrol so they’re just insurance premium until the early 40s.

you can still get a lot of learning out of cheap exercises.
 
So what can we do on the cheap within Middle East / Singapore deployment, to pay the insurance premium?


Restructure to a cadre form to support planned maximum voluntary enlistment.
Exercise on paper.
Exercise around the People’s Republic it Broken Hill (UAP will enjoy this, ALP less so).
Exercise in FNQ.

Anyone got ideas around the Equivalent for the Navy? I don’t think the RAAF is going to be able to work out long range naval patrol so they’re just insurance premium until the early 40s.

you can still get a lot of learning out of cheap exercises.
The whole of Australia’s defence was based on Imperial Defence, and the Army for only home defence.

No one imagines another AIF, after what happen to the 1AIF. With a population of 5 million odd, 2.5 million males, 0.3 million volunteered ! 1:8.3 males

60,000 odd died, 1:5 enlisted. 1:42 Australian males.

Conscription (australia)

Conscription (compulsory military service for young men) has been a contentious issue throughout Australian history. The Defence Act 1903 was one of the first pieces of legislation passed by the new Commonwealth Government. While the Act gave the government the power to conscript citizens for the purpose of home defence, legislation did not allow soldiers to be conscripted for overseas service.

The Universal Service Scheme was the first system of compulsory military service in Australia. The legislation for compulsory military training was introduced in 1909 by Prime Minister Alfred Deakin, and was passed into law in 1911. This scheme was abolished by the Labor Government after its election in October 1929.

Compulsory military service for duty within Australia was revived in 1939, shortly after the outbreak of the Second World War. There was to be no conscription for service overseas, but instead, in a bill passed in February 1943 by the Curtin Labor Government, "Australia" was defined in such a way as to include New Guinea and the adjacent islands. This obliged soldiers in the Citizen Military Force (CMF) to serve in this region, known as the South–West Pacific Area.

 
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Apparently there is a patch of scrub up near Townsville that the Forces boys say hides some especially aggressive cassowaries. Makes training interesting.

Kangaroo exercises were usually held at Tin Can Bay, a bit further south. Around Tully IIRC. I flew in anyway. It was a bit of a rough airstrip with a stonking great hill on the approach. Made an interesting sideslip to get on the path.
 
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The whole of Australia’s defence was based on Imperial Defence, and the Army for only home defence.

No one imagines another AIF, after what happen to the 1AIF. With a population of 5 million odd, 2.5 million males, 0.3 million volunteered ! 1:8.3 males

60,000 odd died, 1:5 enlisted. 1:42 Australian males.

Conscription (australia)

Conscription (compulsory military service for young men) has been a contentious issue throughout Australian history. The Defence Act 1903 was one of the first pieces of legislation passed by the new Commonwealth Government. While the Act gave the government the power to conscript citizens for the purpose of home defence, legislation did not allow soldiers to be conscripted for overseas service.

The Universal Service Scheme was the first system of compulsory military service in Australia. The legislation for compulsory military training was introduced in 1909 by Prime Minister Alfred Deakin, and was passed into law in 1911. This scheme was abolished by the Labor Government after its election in October 1929.

Compulsory military service for duty within Australia was revived in 1939, shortly after the outbreak of the Second World War. There was to be no conscription for service overseas, but instead, in a bill passed in February 1943 by the Curtin Labor Government, "Australia" was defined in such a way as to include New Guinea and the adjacent islands. This obliged soldiers in the Citizen Military Force (CMF) to serve in this region, known as the South–West Pacific Area.

And to me conscription for local service is the way to get around it. Define PNG and the Solomons as local service in the 30s. Then build low tech hard nut garrison forces that can go all Japanese and make islands like Truk not worth the effort. Yeah, sure they will get overwhelmed, but amphibious invasion is hard so they should give a good account of themselves and hopefully act as a deterrent. You still have to play Singapore as the main game but that is for regulars. Who would be silly enough to invade PNG?
 
And to me conscription for local service is the way to get around it. Define PNG and the Solomons as local service in the 30s. Then build low tech hard nut garrison forces that can go all Japanese and make islands like Truk not worth the effort. Yeah, sure they will get overwhelmed, but amphibious invasion is hard so they should give a good account of themselves and hopefully act as a deterrent. You still have to play Singapore as the main game but that is for regulars. Who would be silly enough to invade PNG?
The point that lots of posters don’t get is that until after WWII, Australia didn’t have a regular Army beyond a few permanent Garrison Artillery units. The compulsory military training (or conscription if you like) was only for the Militia (or Reserve) forces that would be called upon for volunteers to form another Expeditionary Force for overseas service. This was a very strong inheritance from the English tradition in the aftermath of the English Civil War and Restoration in the 17th Century.

Once the Scullin (Labor) Government abolished the compulsory training scheme in 1929, the stuffing was knocked out of Militia units and it was only once rearmament began in earnest in the late 1930s (along with improved conditions of service) that Militia numbers began to rise from its nadir. This would mean that a better economic response to the various crises from the Bruce (Coalition) Government might have seen them back in power, along with maintaining compulsory military training until Japan starts its expansionist drive in China, which might see it survive the Depression and ready to support re-armament. I’m not sure though whether a government of any stripe would make Militiamen available to serve outside the mainland in the 1930s, as the conscription debates cast a long shadow over society and politics.
 
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The point that lots of posters don’t get is that until after WWII, Australia didn’t have a regular Army beyond a few permanent Garrison Artillery units.

I don't see any evidence that people posting in this thread don't understand that.

In terms of conscription, if it could have been maintained / reintroduced with a clear caveat that service outside of Australia would be voluntary with an opt-out approach, then that could pave the way for having a much stronger army going into the war.

It wouldn't necessarily be the case that the army would need new or different armaments, just more of what they had sooner so that an extra two or more divisions could be ready for deployment by the beginning of 1942 at the latest.
 
And to me conscription for local service is the way to get around it. Define PNG and the Solomons as local service in the 30s. Then build low tech hard nut garrison forces that can go all Japanese and make islands like Truk not worth the effort. Yeah, sure they will get overwhelmed, but amphibious invasion is hard so they should give a good account of themselves and hopefully act as a deterrent. You still have to play Singapore as the main game but that is for regulars. Who would be silly enough to invade PNG?
PNG was a part of Australia (a territory).

The major issue is there is no infrastructure on the north coast, no way to supply or evac them.

Historically all the Garrisons deployed forward were captured, tortured and killed by the Japanese.
 
In terms of conscription, if it could have been maintained / reintroduced with a clear caveat that service outside of Australia would be voluntary with an opt-out approach, then that could pave the way for having a much stronger army going into the war.

The was effectively that already, the Militia (Army Reserve).

When the war started huge numbers volunteered and gutted the Reserve. All that was left was youth under 21 that couldn’t join the AIF or service overseas.

The 39th inf bn, was sent to PNG and did a text book delaying withdraw.

The 39th had it’s CO and 3 of 4 rifle OCs (coy commanders) replaced by 2AIF experienced soldiers.

The 55th was demolished. 18 YO sent off with no prep.

Battalions received their BREN guns on the track. The first text firing was on Japanese.
 
The was effectively that already, the Militia (Army Reserve).

When the war started huge numbers volunteered and gutted the Reserve. All that was left was youth under 21 that couldn’t join the AIF or service overseas.

The 39th inf bn, was sent to PNG and did a text book delaying withdraw.

The 39th had it’s CO and 3 of 4 rifle OCs (coy commanders) replaced by 2AIF experienced soldiers.

The 55th was demolished. 18 YO sent off with no prep.

Battalions received their BREN guns on the track. The first text firing was on Japanese.

Yes, know all that. What I'm suggesting would have avoided the militia being gutted to form the 2nd AIF, and would have provided a stronger army at home when Japan enters the war.

In the context of the OP, let's say you had conscription of six months' full-time service for men turning 21 for several years before the war broke out. Conscripts would be assigned to units after that initial service and required to attend camps for exercises for one month a year for, say, five or six years. As time goes on, you'd stand up more battalions, brigades, divisions, and you would need to continually acquire more arms and equipment. In December '37 (to pick a random-ish year), Australia had a male population of 3.47 million. You'd have at least 50,000 men turning 21 each year. Maybe as many as half would be given exemptions. But that's still 25,000 a year that you would be training. The war would likely begin before you reach your peak strength, but you'd be in a much better position than historically. From September '39, you call out your very different militia and continue to grow its strength in training manpower, arms and equipment. When you commit forces for overseas service conscripts would have the right to opt-out. Few would. Those who did would simply be reassigned to forces remaining in Australia.

Based on the above, I think it would be very fair to expect that Australia could have sent its historical corps of three divisions to North Africa / the Middle East, and retained another three at home. Thus, when Japan begins its offensive, Australia would not be left with poorly trained and equipped militia and a panicked recall of the 2nd AIF. Though it would likely still want to bring home at least most of what forces it had overseas.
 
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