He may reffer to wife's ancestor to emphasize that his son has Jagiellon blood (distant, but if Wiśniowiecki's descent from Gediminas was taken into consideration...)
List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage
- Thread starter Jonathan
- Start date
Well, Kazimierz works also in this case, because Kazimierz IV is an ancestor of his wife, and Władysław "rex bene" didn't sat Polish throne even for a minute.
Alright...I'm a little nervous on this one, as I don't know how we feel about a Plantagenet Holy Roman Emperor. But anyways, this is a little (well, as little as you can get when dealing with Edward I's 16 children) tree for a world where Henry of England and Alphonse, earl of Chester both survive to adulthood.
Edward I, King of England (b. 1239, d. 1306) m. Eleanor of Castile (b. 1241, d. 1304) in 1254, had issue
Edward I, King of England (b. 1239, d. 1306) m. Eleanor of Castile (b. 1241, d. 1304) in 1254, had issue
1) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1255)
2) Katherine of England (b. 1261, d. 1264)
3) Joanna of England (b. and d. 1265)
4) John of England (b. 1266, d. 1271)
5) Henry IV, King of England (b. 1268, d. ?) m. Isabel of Aragon (b. 1271, d. ?) in 1287, had issue
6) Eleanor of England, Countess of Poitiers (b. 1269, d. ?) m. Philippe of France, Count of Poitiers (b. 1268, d. 1314) in 1284, had issue
7) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1271)
8) Joan of Acre, Queen of Portugal (b. 1272, d. ?) m. Dinis I, King of Portugal (b. 1261, d. 1325) in 1285, had issue
9) Alphonso I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1273, d. ?) m. Joan I, Queen of Navarre (b. 1273, d. ?) in 1282, had issue
10) Margaret of England, Duchess of Brabant (b. 1275, d. 1333) m. John II, Duke of Brabant in 1290, had issue
11) Berengaria (b. 1276, d. 1278)
12) Stillborn daughter (b. and d. 1278)
13) Mary of Woodstock (b. 1279, d. 1332) a nun
14) Stillborn son (b. and d. 1281)
15) Elizabeth of Rhuddlan, Countess of Hereford and Essex (7 August 1282 – 5 May 1316) m. John I, Count of Holland in 1297, had no issue (a); m. Humphrey de Bohun, 4th Earl of Hereford and 3rd Earl of Essex in 1302, had issue (b)
16) Edward of Caernarfon, earl of Lincoln (25 April 1284 – 21 September 1327) m. Alice de Lacey, 4th Countess of Lincoln and 5th Countess of Salisbury (b. 1281, d. ?) in 1300, had issue
If HRE was your main reason for creating this TL, I'd suggest foing with Henry III's brother, Richard of Cornwall, who was King of Germans IOTL......
Surprisingly plausible, Alphonso would in a way inherit the candidacy for the HRE from both his maternal uncle Alfonso X and from his paternal great uncle Richard of Cornwall. Young Henry surviving would shake up all OTL marriage plans too.
Ooo I would love to see a successful Richard of Cornwall TL...he seems to have been better suited for leadership than his brother. But anyways, actually, the HRE was not my main reason. I saw a post on here about how Henry of England was apparently betrothed to Joan of Navarre. Someone suggested a TL with a surviving Henry and Alphonse, who married Joan instead of his brother and started his own Plantagenet line in Navarre. I ran with it and the HRE thing kind of fell into my lap. I thought ‘Edward I would like having a son on the imperial throne and he probably has the clout to do it’.
I would as well tbh
The only Henry I've seen here was my own, but ig it was an older post?
Ok man
Here's a family tree I'm thinking of for a Richard of Conisburgh TL I might end up writing someday:
Richard of Conisburgh, Duke of York (b. 1385 d.1452) m. Anne, Countess of March (b. 1388 d.1471)
A) Isabel of Cambridge (b. 1409 d. 1464) m. Henry Bourchier (b.1404 d. 1469)
B) Henry, Marquis of Cambridge, later Duke of York (b.1410 d. 1469) m. Mary, Countess of Bedford* (b.1412 d.1468)
C) Richard, Earl of Cork (b.1411 d. 1467) m. Cecily Neville (b.1413 d. 1483)
D) Anne of Cambridge, (b.1412 d. 1461) m. Thomas Clifford, 8th baron of Clifford (b.1413 d. 1465)
E) Stillborn son (b.1413 d. 1413)
F) Stillborn daughter (b. 1415 d. 1415)
G) Margaret of York (b. 1415 d. 1420)
H) Cardinal Edmund of York, Bishop of Bath (b. 1417 d. 1460)
I) Elizabeth of York (b.1420 d. 1499) m. Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland (b.1421 d. 1453)
J) Stillborn Daughter (b. 1423 d. 1423)
K) Arthur, Earl, later Duke of Kent (b. 1425 d.1502) m. Margaret, Countess of Somerset** (b.1427 d. 1479)
L) Edward, Bishop of London (b. 1425 d. 1483)
M) Mary of York (b. 1428 d. 1510) m. John De Vere, 12th earl of Oxford (b.1426 d. 1473)
N) Joan of York, Abbess of Whitby (b.1428 d. 1478)
* ATL daughter of John of Bedford and Margaret of Nevers.
** ATL daughter of Henry 2nd earl of Somerset and Margaret De Beauchamp, countess of Warwick. She ends up inheriting because the OTL Duke of Warwick is born female
Lemme know your thoughts guys!
Richard of Conisburgh, Duke of York (b. 1385 d.1452) m. Anne, Countess of March (b. 1388 d.1471)
A) Isabel of Cambridge (b. 1409 d. 1464) m. Henry Bourchier (b.1404 d. 1469)
B) Henry, Marquis of Cambridge, later Duke of York (b.1410 d. 1469) m. Mary, Countess of Bedford* (b.1412 d.1468)
C) Richard, Earl of Cork (b.1411 d. 1467) m. Cecily Neville (b.1413 d. 1483)
D) Anne of Cambridge, (b.1412 d. 1461) m. Thomas Clifford, 8th baron of Clifford (b.1413 d. 1465)
E) Stillborn son (b.1413 d. 1413)
F) Stillborn daughter (b. 1415 d. 1415)
G) Margaret of York (b. 1415 d. 1420)
H) Cardinal Edmund of York, Bishop of Bath (b. 1417 d. 1460)
I) Elizabeth of York (b.1420 d. 1499) m. Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland (b.1421 d. 1453)
J) Stillborn Daughter (b. 1423 d. 1423)
K) Arthur, Earl, later Duke of Kent (b. 1425 d.1502) m. Margaret, Countess of Somerset** (b.1427 d. 1479)
L) Edward, Bishop of London (b. 1425 d. 1483)
M) Mary of York (b. 1428 d. 1510) m. John De Vere, 12th earl of Oxford (b.1426 d. 1473)
N) Joan of York, Abbess of Whitby (b.1428 d. 1478)
* ATL daughter of John of Bedford and Margaret of Nevers.
** ATL daughter of Henry 2nd earl of Somerset and Margaret De Beauchamp, countess of Warwick. She ends up inheriting because the OTL Duke of Warwick is born female
Lemme know your thoughts guys!
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She was born in 1393, I'm talking about the daughter of John the Fearless here.
Philip of Austria repeats Emperor Henry VI's matrimonial mistakes.
Mary of Burgundy b. 1457-1497 m. Maximilian I (a)[1]
1a. Margaret b. 1476 b. Charles VI m. Frederick of Saxony(a)
2a. Philip II, Holy Roman Emperor b. 1478 m. Isabella II of Castile and Aragon
2a1a. Ferdinand III of Spain, Holy Roman Emperor b. 1498 m. Madeleine of Navarre/Anne of France(a) Mary Tudor(b)
3a. Eleanor b. 1480 m. Juan, Prince of Asturias(a) Philibert II of Savoy(b)
4a. Francis I, Duke of Burgundy b. 1481 m. Margaret of Brandenburg(a)
4a2a.Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor b. 1503 m. Anne of Bohemia and Hungary
5a. Catherine of Austria b. 1486 m. Christian II of Denmark
Isabella I of Castile m. Ferdinand II of Aragon(a)
1a. Isabella of Castile and Aragon b. 1470 d. 1520 m. Alfonso of Portugal(a) Emperor Philip II(b)
2a. Juan, Prince of Asturias b. 1478 d. 1497 m. Eleanor of Austria(a)
3a. Juana of Aragon b. 1479 m. Manuel I(a)
3a1a. Maria of Portugal b. 1496 m. Charles IX(Charles Orlando) of France
3a2a. John II of Portugal b. 1498
4a. Maria of Aragon b. 1482 m. Charles VIII[1]
4a. Catherine of Aragon b. 1485 m. Arthur, Prince of Wales(a) Henry VIII(b)
1. Charles the Bold dies prior to his ascenscion as the Duke of Burgundy so an earlier marriage of Mary of Burgundy and Maximilian happens here.
2.Anne of Brittany dies in 1499
Mary of Burgundy b. 1457-1497 m. Maximilian I (a)[1]
1a. Margaret b. 1476 b. Charles VI m. Frederick of Saxony(a)
2a. Philip II, Holy Roman Emperor b. 1478 m. Isabella II of Castile and Aragon
2a1a. Ferdinand III of Spain, Holy Roman Emperor b. 1498 m. Madeleine of Navarre/Anne of France(a) Mary Tudor(b)
3a. Eleanor b. 1480 m. Juan, Prince of Asturias(a) Philibert II of Savoy(b)
4a. Francis I, Duke of Burgundy b. 1481 m. Margaret of Brandenburg(a)
4a2a.Maximilian II, Holy Roman Emperor b. 1503 m. Anne of Bohemia and Hungary
5a. Catherine of Austria b. 1486 m. Christian II of Denmark
Isabella I of Castile m. Ferdinand II of Aragon(a)
1a. Isabella of Castile and Aragon b. 1470 d. 1520 m. Alfonso of Portugal(a) Emperor Philip II(b)
2a. Juan, Prince of Asturias b. 1478 d. 1497 m. Eleanor of Austria(a)
3a. Juana of Aragon b. 1479 m. Manuel I(a)
3a1a. Maria of Portugal b. 1496 m. Charles IX(Charles Orlando) of France
3a2a. John II of Portugal b. 1498
4a. Maria of Aragon b. 1482 m. Charles VIII[1]
4a. Catherine of Aragon b. 1485 m. Arthur, Prince of Wales(a) Henry VIII(b)
1. Charles the Bold dies prior to his ascenscion as the Duke of Burgundy so an earlier marriage of Mary of Burgundy and Maximilian happens here.
2.Anne of Brittany dies in 1499
POD: John, the eldest son of Edward I, survives to adulthood and succeeds his father.
John II, King of England (b. 1266) m. Sancha of Portugal (b. 1264) in 1280, had issue
[1] The marriage of Eleanor and Edmund is a love match and occurs without the consent of her father and grandfather. The couple are separated and Edward I attempts to have the marriage annulled, but is unsuccessful before his death in 1306. After his death, Eleanor and Edmund are finally allowed to live together as husband and wife.
[2] Son of Ferdinand de la Cerda, IOTL he and his father were dispossessed of the Castilian throne. Alfonso is a French ally but his match with Margaret is arranged under the advice of Margaret's grandmother Eleanor of Castile, who dies in 1304 ITTL.
John II, King of England (b. 1266) m. Sancha of Portugal (b. 1264) in 1280, had issue
1) Beatrice of England (b. 1281, d. 1282)
2) Eleanor of England, Countess of Arundel (b. 1286) m. Edmund FitzAlan, earl of Arundel (b. 1285) [1] in 1302, had issue
3) Margaret of England, Queen of Castile (b. 1289) m. Alfonso XI of Castile (b. 1289) [2] in 1306, had issue
4) Edward of England (b. and d. 1291)
5) Alphonse of England (b. 1292, d. 1295)
6) Henry IV, King of England (b. 1296) m. Isabelle of France (b. 1295) in 1312, had issue
7) John, earl of Cornwall (b. 1299) m. Marie of Brittany (b. 1302) in 1319, had issue
8) Thomas, Bishop of Winchester (b. 1303)
[1] The marriage of Eleanor and Edmund is a love match and occurs without the consent of her father and grandfather. The couple are separated and Edward I attempts to have the marriage annulled, but is unsuccessful before his death in 1306. After his death, Eleanor and Edmund are finally allowed to live together as husband and wife.
[2] Son of Ferdinand de la Cerda, IOTL he and his father were dispossessed of the Castilian throne. Alfonso is a French ally but his match with Margaret is arranged under the advice of Margaret's grandmother Eleanor of Castile, who dies in 1304 ITTL.
Another tree...this one for my María y Miguel TL (@UnaiB you might like this!). It's kind of rough. Any input is greatly appreciated!
HOUSE OF TRASTÁMARA
Isabel I, Queen of Castile (b. 1451, d. 1506) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1453, d. 1516) in 1469, has issue
HOUSE OF TRASTÁMARA
Isabel I, Queen of Castile (b. 1451, d. 1506) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1453, d. 1516) in 1469, has issue
1) Isabel of Aragon and Castile, Princess of Asturias and Queen of Portugal (b. 1470, d. 1504) m. Afonso, Prince of Portugal (b. 1475, d. 1491) in 1490, had no issue (a); Manuel I, King of Portugal (b. 1469) in 1497, had issue
1) Miguel da Paz, King of Spain (b. 1498) m. Maria, Queen of Spain (b. 1498) in 1512, had issue
2) Fernando of Portugal, Duke of Viseu (b. 1502, d. 1540) m. Catalina of Spain (b. 1503) in 1525, had issue
3) Isabel of Portugal, Holy Roman Empress (b. 1503) m. Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) in 1526, had issue
4) Beatriz of Portugal, Duchess of Savoy (b. 1504) m. Charles III, Duke of Savoy (b. 1486) in 1521, had issue
2) Juan of Aragon and Castile, Prince of Asturias and Girona (b. 1478, d. 1506) m. Margaret of Austria (b. 1480) in 1497, had issue
1) María, Queen of Spain (b. 1498) m. Miguel da Paz, King of Spain (b. 1498) in 1512, had issue
2) Fernando of Castile and Aragon (b. 1500, d. 1502)
3) Isabel of Castile and Aragon, Holy Roman Empress (b. 1501, d. 1525) m. Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) in 1522, had issue
4) Catalina of Castile and Aragon, Duchess of Viseu (b. 1503, d. 1537) m. Ferdinand of Portugal, Duke of Viseu (b. 1502) in 1525, had issue
5) Blanca of Castile and Aragon, Queen of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1505) m. Louis II Jagiellon, King of Hungary and Bohemia (b. 1506) in 1522, had issue
6) Juan III “El póstumo”, King of Castile (b. and d. 1507)
3) Juana of Aragon and Castile, Duchess of Burgundy (b. 1479, d. 1555) m. Philip of Austria, Duke of Burgundy (b. 1478, d. 1498) in 1496, had issue
1) Frederick IV, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1498) m. Isabel of Castile and Aragon (b. 1501, d. 1525) in 1522, had issue (a); Isabel of Portugal (b. 1503, d. ?) in 1526, had issue (b)
4) Maria of Aragon and Castile, Duchess of Savoy (twin of stillborn child; b. 1482) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, d. 1504) in 1500, had no issue
5) Stillborn child (twin of Maria; b. and d. 1482)
6) Catalina of Aragon and Castile, Queen of England (b. 1485) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486) in 1502, had no issue (a); Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491) in 1505, had issue (b)
Issue TBD
Somes notes on TTL:- Our POD is necessarily October 1497. At this time ITTL, Juan, Prince of Asturias manages to recover from a severe illness. As IOTL, Margaret of Austria is newly pregnant at the time and her husband’s survival allows her to carry to term and give birth to a small but healthy baby girl, named María in honor of the Blessed Virgin, in May 1498.
- Isabel of Aragon survives giving birth to Miguel da Paz in August 1498 but her health is in rough shape afterwards; she does not conceive again until 1501 and dies in 1504 after delivering her fourth child and second daughter. The distraught Manuel of Portugal hesitantly remarries to Germaine of Foix in 1506, hoping to provide Portugal with another infante, but their marriage results in the birth of only one short lived son whose difficult delivery renders Germaine infertile.
- After less than a year of marriage, Philip of Austria, Duke of Burgundy suddenly dies in Brussels in April 1498 at age 19. Juana of Aragon, who had fallen deeply in love/lust with her husband, is bereft...and newly pregnant. Her father-in-law, Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian, commands her to remain in Brussels to wait out her pregnancy. Miraculously, she manages to carry it to term. Juana gives birth to a healthy son in November 1498 and Maximilian quickly takes custody of his new grandson, whom he names Frederick after his own father. Juana is then returned to Spain in early 1499. Her mental health is clearly much deteriorated by this point, and so a second marriage does not seem to be in the cards for her.
- In October 1506, Juan, Prince of Asturias finally (at least in light of his frequent ill health) dies of typhus at age 28. Queen Isabel la Católica is devastated by her son’s death, following so closely after the loss of her daughter Isabel in 1504, and dies in November 1506, a heartbroken mother. Through all of this, Margaret of Austria happens to be pregnant for a sixth and final time and she gives birth to a posthumous son, named Juan in honor of his late father, in March 1507. As the only son of the Prince of Asturias, the newborn succeeds as King Juan III of Castile from the moment of his birth. Unfortunately El póstumo, as young King Juan is known, was born prematurely and proves to be quite sickly. He dies in May 1507 at barely two months of age.
- Following the death of Juan el póstumo, Margaret of Austria sets aside her (pretty immense) grief and moves to have Infanta María established as Queen of Castile. Her claim, however, is stoutly contested by Manuel of Portugal, who claims the Castilian throne in the name of his son (and María’s cousin) Prince Miguel. Manuel and Margaret find themselves at loggerheads and a meeting in July 1507 under the olive tree at Veracruz, a traditional rendezvous point for the monarchs of the Iberian peninsula, goes nowhere. Margaret prepares to have her daughter crowned at Burgos while Manuel has his son crowned in absentia and begins planning an invasion of Castile.
- It takes the intervention of Ferdinand of Aragon to prevent war between his daughter-in-law and son-in-law. During the lifetime of Isabel of Aragon, an unofficial betrothal had existed between Infanta María and Prince Miguel. Ferdinand simply proposes, in fall 1507, to formalize this engagement, which would consolidate the claims of the daughter’s son and the son’s daughter. Manuel and Margaret grudgingly agree to this and Ferdinand, in an ultimate move to pacify the two sides, has Infanta María and Prince Miguel crowned Queen and King of Castile in a joint ceremony at the cathedral in Burgos in January 1508. Shortly after, their betrothal is ratified and they will marry in September 1512 once Prince Miguel, who is slightly younger than Infanta María, has turned 14.
- The future Frederick IV is initially quite hostile to the idea of marriage with Isabel of Castile. He had grown up expecting to marry her older sister María and he is much soured towards his Iberian relatives after María’s 1512 marriage to Miguel da Paz. However, his paternal aunt and paternal grandfather remain determined that Frederick will marry Isabel and the young girl is even brought to Mechelen in the Low Countries in 1514 so that the prospective couple can meet. Frederick admits that Isabel is beautiful and charming but it is only after the death of Emperor Maximilian in 1518 that he finally softens to his late grandfather’s wishes and agrees to the betrothal, though their union is not solemnized in person until 1522.
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If Maximilian choose the name of his grandson no way that name will be Frederick. The most likely choices are Maximilian or Charles (followed by Ernest and Philip). Joanna would remain with her son (and will be the formal regent of his lands aka Burgundy) and is pretty unlikely who her mental health will be afflicted at this point.
Also Maximilian II/Charles V will NOT marry an infanta of Spain or Portugal but Anna of Bohemia and Hungary.
Eleanor of Aquitaine m. Louis VII(a)
1a. Marie b. 1143 m. Conan IV of Brittany
2a. Philippe II of France b. 1145 m. Beatrice, Countess of Burgundy
3a. Guilhem X of Aquitaine b. 1150 m. Azalais of Savoy
4a. Alix of France b. 1153 m. Alfonso VIII of Castile
Faidiva, Countess of Toulouse m. Umberto III of Savoy
1a. Azalais of Savoy b. 1152
2a. Raymond VI, Count of Savoy and Toulouse b. 1156 m. Douce II of Provence
3a. Humbert of Savoy b. 1158 m. Beatrice of Vienne
1a. Marie b. 1143 m. Conan IV of Brittany
2a. Philippe II of France b. 1145 m. Beatrice, Countess of Burgundy
3a. Guilhem X of Aquitaine b. 1150 m. Azalais of Savoy
4a. Alix of France b. 1153 m. Alfonso VIII of Castile
Faidiva, Countess of Toulouse m. Umberto III of Savoy
1a. Azalais of Savoy b. 1152
2a. Raymond VI, Count of Savoy and Toulouse b. 1156 m. Douce II of Provence
3a. Humbert of Savoy b. 1158 m. Beatrice of Vienne
Thomas I of England (Edward II dies childless in early 1312, his half brother Thomas succeedes him and marries surviving Constance of Castile (b. 1308)
Thomas I (1300-1338) King of England 1312, m. Constance of Castile (1308-1349)
Thomas I (1300-1338) King of England 1312, m. Constance of Castile (1308-1349)
1) Edward III (1326-1355) King of England 1338, m. Mary of Brabant (1325-1399)
2) Margaret (1327-1379) m. David II (1324-1371) King of Scotland
3) Eleanor (1330)
4) Henry (1332-1335)
6) Thomas II (1336-1389) King of England 1355, m. Joan of Navarre (1342-1403)
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Eleanor marries in Aragon, like IOTL, her sister Constance (born in 1308, IOTL died in 1310) is Queen of England.