Pop-Culture in TNO

[xie323]

Note: If you have objections against this mod, please do not comment

Inspired by the various pop-cultures of <universe X> threads, how do you think fiction and pop-culture will develop in TNO?

For one I see that if Japan loses the GAW and a far-right government falls because of that, anime might be more pessissmistic and critical of various socioeconomic aspects, especially if coming after a Kishi defeat(since while he's being reworked to be less bloodthirsty he'll be horrible regardless).

I also think that Space Defender Zaku may be a 40K esque satire of Japanese politics/mindset and depending on what happens to Japan, it may be more openly critical.

Pure grimdark fiction like 40K or British counterculture media will be less common than OTL, earn your happy ending stories might be more prevalent

 

[blsssd]

Neon Genesis Evangelion will be far more depressing in a Kishi victory, thats for sure

 

[Bountifulauto82]

I would love to see a Death of Hitler movie. I do wonder how entertainment would evolve in Nazi Germany. It probably would go like this:

Fascist and Conservative Speer/Bormann: Entertainment is essentially always propaganda, idolizing the Fuhrer, demonizing his enemies, and brainwashing children into National Socialism.

Reformist Speer: Entertainment undergoes an extreme boon with the influx of Western media. (Of course nothing too dissenting is allowed, but compared to before it's a golden age)

Goering: Like Fascist Speer and Bormann, but with a heavy focus on recruitment propaganda and the armed forces.

Heydrich: ENTERTAINMENT IS FRIVOLOUS WHEN THE ARYAN RACE IS AT STAKE

DSR:Entertainment is very much propaganda in order to assist in De-Nazification, as well as to raise a new socialist generation of children.

Don't know enough about the other factions to say anything about them.

 

[Whiteshore]

Inspired by the various pop-cultures of <universe X> threads, how do you think fiction and pop-culture will develop in TNO?

Probably lots of escapism considering the dark nature of the world.

 

[blsssd]

Probably lots of escapism considering the dark nature of the world.

Although it is possible that psychological horror, dystopianism and cosmic horror increases in popularity since those are the only things that can make someone think "at least i dont live in this world"

 

[thanix01]

Apparently Anime and Manga will have more militaristic and nationalist undertone. So I expect that manga/anime/LN like GATE will be more popular. Escapism mix with nationalistic undertone and support for militarism.

 

[chankljp]

From the events that we have seen, in an Tomsk that is dominated by the Modernist salon, both works of science fiction and the art deco style are huge in the intellectual circles over there even during the warlord stage. So if Tomsk managed to reform the Central Siberian Republic, and eventually reunite Russia, I can see the same thing continuing, but now extended to all of Russia.

While for a Russian National Republic that emerged under Petlin's Magadan, his entire ideology was basically to translate the American political system (Federalist political structure, the Bill of Rights, a focus on individual liberty, a free market economic system, etc) over to Russia. So I can see the same thing happening to popular culture and media, with the influx of Western media inspiring Russian artists to make their own imitation of American comic books and cartoons.

 

[KazuyaProta]

Neon Genesis Evangelion will be far more depressing in a Kishi victory, thats for sure

EVA really doesn't change much IMO, the whole thing is more psychological exploration. There might be references at how the Kishi government set some conditions tho

 

[xie323]

Apparently Anime and Manga will have more militaristic and nationalist undertone. So I expect that manga/anime/LN like GATE will be more popular. Escapism mix with nationalistic undertone and support for militarism.

Knowing Tomino, I could however see Space Defender Zaku being a WH40K style satire or critique of Japanese aims and wargoals. As well as their justifications. And depending on what happens to Japan it might be more blatant in the series itself. Assuming Japan fully reforms itself or if Kishi or Kaya losing causes a chain reaction leading to Japanese Imperialism getting discredited and seen in the same light as Nazism, don't be suprised if the Zeon starts to be presented as more outright villainous. We might even see the Titans analogue(who here will most likely be a vicious resistance group than Colonial oppressors since Zeon will very likely win this OYW analogue) be more openly anti-villainous rather than more clear cut villainous, with the whole "Jamitov wanted humans to move to Space but his ideas were perverted by Bask Om" interpretation of his character be more legit.

Bascically on the Surface level the Imperium of Ma-I mean Zeon looks to be justified despite wiping out half of the human population because the Feddies were oppressing them and the Space Colonies, but if you dig a bit deeper, you will find that many of Zeon's problems were just as much as it's own fault as the fault of the Feddies, and there are servere holes with Newtype ideology. And this will be reflected well with Char's plots to destroy the Zabi family.

That said, to make model sales and gunpla sales work and make Space Defender Zaku as accessible as possible, the satirical elements will be dialed down people will unironically think as per OTL that Colony Drops were a good thing as per OTL or that Zeon was justified 100%(with both Zeon and the afomentioned Imperium I'm parallelling)

 

[freivolk]

I think this fits here:

The Winnetou Revolution

Its impossible for foreigners to understand the impact the Karl-May-movies of the late sixties had on german society under the Speer-regime. Especialy Americans, who watch the Winnetou-movies, just see a B-western, in which the Crimea-peninsula and ukrainian peasant in redface tried to cosplay as the Wild West and american Indians. But for many Germans the movies represent the fundamental change of the country after Speer´s victory in the GCW. The first time since 1933, Winnetou, a person of a non-white race was presented as equal and actually more noble then aryan people. Maybe much more incredible was, that the movies included a mixed-race relationship between german hero Old Shatterhand.played by Götz George, and Winnetou´s sister Ntscho-Tschi.

It changed nothing on the impact, that the Indian characters were played by white actors, like french Pierre Brice as Winnetou and german actress Uschi Glass as his sister. Natural it was also highly symbolic, that Brice, a former resistance fiMghter against the Burgundians, and Götz George,a member of a Speer-militia, played best friends and blood-brotherss in the movies. But to fully understand all, you must knew the role of Karl Mays work in the Third Reich.
Karl Mays (1842-1912)books are till today the most famous youth novels in Germany. Still their symphathy for "lower" races made them problematic for the Nazis. Ironicly Hitler himself was a huge fan of Winnetou and protected the books from a ban. Still in the late 1950th Martin Borman, who disliked May for his catholic mysticism and pacifism, pressed for a ban. There iis a legend, that a public burning of Mays book let to a first massiv youth protest. At least authentic RSHA-reports certfie, that the slogan "Winnetou darf nicht sterben" was more and more written on walls. During the GCW Speer miltias called themselve "Winnetous Rache" or "Bärenfett-Brigade". Speer-partisans in Saxony were called "Apatschen". One of this young "Apatchen", Joschka Fischer, later claimed: "We couldn´t have won the war without Winnetou. We couldn´t have won the peace without Winnetou!" That is maybe a bit much, but to some degree, it was really Winnetou´s revolution.

 

[White Aurora]

Robert Fuller's The South African War is considered to be one of the best television documentary series about the war. It is a 13 part series that covers pre-war, during the war, and post-war United States & South Africa, how the war changed both societies, as well as covering major battles of the war.

 

[chankljp]

From one of my posts over on the "Photos of the New Order" thread:

Promotional poster and gameplay screenshot for "The War of Resistance: The Battle of Shanghai", a military history themed first-person on-rails light gun shooter series of arcade video games developed by the Beijing based 'Sunborn Technology'. Originally released in arcades in 1994 and later ported to home computers.

In the game, the player controls a special forces operative in China's National Revolutionary Army, fighting to liberate the occupied city of Shanghai from Japanese forces during the opening stages of the Great Asian War. The game has 4 stages as the player fight in vicious urban combat though the streets of the city, encountering and shooting their way though IJA soldiers, IJN Special Naval Landing Forces, Kempeitai agents, yakuza members, etc.

In terms of gameplay, "The Battle of Shanghai" was most notable for including features such as destructible environments, and a weponds select system that allows the player to switch between a pistol, an assault rifle, an shotgun, and a grenade launcher, with both features being the first of their kind in the video game industry.

As a coin operated arcade game, in order to encourage players to return after having already beaten the game and maximise profit for the operator, a secret 5th level will be unlocked by clear the game with over 62,000 points (Which can only be achieved by having a hyper aggressive and recklessly playstyle, taking risks for a high score, rather than playing defensively, hence increasing the number of times you will need to insert more coins to continue), which will take the play all the way to the Japanese Home Islands, revealing that all of Nobusuke Kishi's actions starting with Order 44 was in fact part of an unholy pact he had made with the ancient Chinese daemon king Chi You (Changed to Satan for the international release version), in order grant himself ultimate power to rule over all of Asia. With the demonically possessed Kishi being the final boss of the game.

While its more fanciful aspect has been criticised within some more conservative circles in China as being disrespectful to history, the game was nonetheless a critical and commercial success, with the Chinese produced shooter being a much-loved staple of arcades across the world, particularly in the United States and India.

In one of the events for China when they are going down the 'Technology' branch of the Five Mordernization, based on the description text that we were given, in the TNO world, instead of the Americans in OTL, the Chinese would be the ones to create what was basically an Apple II home computer, complete with an early version of a mouse and a revolutionary GUI, in around the early 1970s'. As such, even taking the GAW into consideration, I think the development and widespread availability of computers will happen much sooner in TNO world's China. Hence, this video same that was created in 2003 in OTL would have been developed much sooner.... Plus, early on in the history of video games, arcades have much better hardware compared to home PCs and consoles. Hence, my way of justifying why the game would have had much more cutting edge graphics and gameplay by the mid-1990s.

==============================================

Also, from that same thread, @HIM Dogson have an AMAZINGLY cursed idea about the impact that a victorious independent fascist Speer would have on the world of popular culture in the long-run....

Poster for Captain America: The First Avenger, one of the movies that launched Disney's Marvel Cinematic Universe. Controversial amongst comic book fans and political activists on the left alike, this film was initially to closely follow the original Captain America comic books with Cap fighting the Nazis in WWII. At the urging of Disney, however, the film was changed so that the Nazis are not the final villains in order to appeal to the massive European market. Instead, while the Red Skull and HYDRA initially work with the Nazis they ultimately betray Hitler, and the climax sees Cap working with Wehrmacht soldiers to foil HYDRA's plans for world destruction- a not so subtle reference to Heinrich Himmler's defunct state of Burgundy. The film was a financial hit both in America and the Zollverein, but was met with harsh condemnation for its betrayal of the character's origins and apologism for National Socialism; famed leftist comic artist Frank Miller, for instance, called it "Disgusting, cowardly, and an insult to everything Captain America is supposed to be." No matter what criticisms are leveled against this film and other Hollywood movies, they continue to make money, and hence will continue to be made in a way that does not offend Nazi Germany's Orpo censors.

The idea being that with a economically strong Reich that dominates most of Europe thanks to the GO4's reforms... But with them being purged right afterwards as they have outlived their usefulness in the aftermath of the Slave Revolt, Speer's Nazi regime, unlike if it had been under Bormann, is simply not going to collaspe on its own. Eventually, the US and other Western countries would have to give in, fully normalize relations with them, in order to not lose out on such a huge market that they can export to.... Resulting in the now reformed Nazis being able to influence American pop-culture in order cater to the wishes of Nazi censors, so that their movies can be shown in the lucrative European market. With even Captain America being symbolically corrupted.

 

[Whiteshore]

Also, from that same thread, @HIM Dogson have an AMAZINGLY cursed idea about the impact that a victorious independent fascist Speer would have on the world of popular culture in the long-run....

Even Victorious Go4!Pop Culture is probably going to need to cater to a German audience in some way or another with shows like Star Trek having to display a more militaristic bent while stuff like Halo is bound to be big in Europe and Star Wars would probably have a more sympathetic Imperial side.

 

[chankljp]

Even Victorious Go4!Pop Culture is probably going to need to cater to a German audience in some way or another with shows like Star Trek having to display a more militaristic bent while stuff like Halo is bound to be big in Europe and Star Wars would probably have a more sympathetic Imperial side.

As I have suggested over on that other thread, besides the obvious such as perverting the negative portrayals of Germany and the Nazi government, other censorship that the 'Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda' would impose on imported Western cinema might even include stuff like not having too many interracial couples from different ethnic groups on screen (Or at least, have a 'One interracial couple per-movie' limit, with them not being allowed to engage in displays of intimacy on-screen), have the skin tone of black and Asian actors edited and lightened to make them more palatable to the Reich's audiences, hiding the participation of Jewish cast members in the credits for the German cut of the movie, cutting out 'problematic' dialogue in which a non-Aryan character openly challenges or outsmart an Aryan, not having Aryan characters be in a subordinate role to a non-Aryan, not staring actors that have openly criticized the Nazi government in real life (Or have them outright blacklisted)... etc.

 

[Whiteshore]

As I have suggested over on that other thread, besides the obvious such as perverting the negative portrayals of Germany and the Nazi government, other censorship that the 'Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda' would impose on imported Western cinema might even include stuff like not having too many interracial couples from different ethnic groups on screen (Or at least, have a 'One interracial couple per-movie' limit, with them not being allowed to engage in displays of intimacy on-screen), have the skin tone of black and Asian actors edited and lightened to make them more palatable to the Reich's audiences, hiding the participation of Jewish cast members in the credits for the German cut of the movie, cutting out 'problematic' dialogue in which a non-Aryan character openly challenges or outsmart an Aryan, not having Aryan characters be in a subordinate role to a non-Aryan, not staring actors that have openly criticized the Nazi government in real life (Or have them outright blacklisted)... etc.

But yeah, even in a scenario where the Gang of Four turns Speer into a puppet, pop culture would probably still be "darker and edgier" with more of a militaristic tone to it if only to appeal to an audience which is strongly nationalist and quite militarist in their nature?

 

[chankljp]

But yeah, even in a scenario where the Gang of Four turns Speer into a puppet, pop culture would probably still be "darker and edgier" with more of a militaristic tone to it if only to appeal to an audience which is strongly nationalist and quite militarist in their nature?

Alternatively, considering that art and media produced by even a GO4 Germany would already be strongly nationalist and militaristic, when it comes to imported Western media from say, the US, German audience might actually want to seek out something that is 'different', both as a means of escapism, and just to add some variety in the type of pop culture that they get to consume.

So, there might be an entire genera of film/books/video games created specifically to cater towards the German/European market, playing up the entire 'Western' angle, while seemingly being all edgy and boundary pushing.... While in reality everything is all Reich Ministry approved, to serve as an outlet for the more rebellious elements of the population.

 

[WotanArgead]

Knowing Tomino, I could however see Space Defender Zaku being a WH40K style satire or critique of Japanese aims and wargoals. As well as their justifications. And depending on what happens to Japan it might be more blatant in the series itself. Assuming Japan fully reforms itself or if Kishi or Kaya losing causes a chain reaction leading to Japanese Imperialism getting discredited and seen in the same light as Nazism, don't be suprised if the Zeon starts to be presented as more outright villainous. We might even see the Titans analogue(who here will most likely be a vicious resistance group than Colonial oppressors since Zeon will very likely win this OYW analogue) be more openly anti-villainous rather than more clear cut villainous, with the whole "Jamitov wanted humans to move to Space but his ideas were perverted by Bask Om" interpretation of his character be more legit.

Bascically on the Surface level the Imperium of Ma-I mean Zeon looks to be justified despite wiping out half of the human population because the Feddies were oppressing them and the Space Colonies, but if you dig a bit deeper, you will find that many of Zeon's problems were just as much as it's own fault as the fault of the Feddies, and there are servere holes with Newtype ideology. And this will be reflected well with Char's plots to destroy the Zabi family.

That said, to make model sales and gunpla sales work and make Space Defender Zaku as accessible as possible, the satirical elements will be dialed down people will unironically think as per OTL that Colony Drops were a good thing as per OTL or that Zeon was justified 100%(with both Zeon and the afomentioned Imperium I'm parallelling)

I honestly don't think it makes any sense at all to make Zaku's pilots and Zeonans protagonists, not antagonists. Here, of course, it is worth starting to choose the scenario according to which the Japanese Empire is developing - at least in order to answer the question "will there be at least some Japanese state?"
After the end of the war, the Japanese oligarchy and generals will annex significant territories and try to resettle the Japanese colonists there. So the Japanese have a reason to associate themselves with the Federation (even though most of the colonies are islands, which further enhances the similarities). So I think the main characters of the first series will definitely fight as part of the federal troops. Moreover, it is quite possible that in this case the protagonists will bear Japanese or other "Eastern" names, as the development of the ideals of pan-Asianism and Japanese-centrism (though a lot of details here depend on the outcome of the Asian War). While the majority of the population of "Side-3" may be immigrants from Europe and America.

EVA really doesn't change much IMO, the whole thing is more psychological exploration.

Depends on what the situation will be in the 90s - this is largely a product of the "lost decade"

Alternatively, considering that art and media produced by even a GO4 Germany would already be strongly nationalist and militaristic, when it comes to imported Western media from say, the US, German audience might actually want to seek out something that is 'different', both as a means of escapism, and just to add some variety in the type of pop culture that they get to consume.

No more than American media - Nazi media were not much different from Hollywood production.

 

[chankljp]

This was something that was just shared over on TNO's sub-reddit, and made me think of this thread right away:

The TNO world's version of the 1997 Fallout game produced in what I assume is a now democratised Germany after decades of rule by the Go4:

And similar to how in OTL, during the 1990s' Fallout and Fallout 2 had a huge following in Russia via fan-made translations with pirated copies of the games, in the TNO world, there would be fan made English translation that introduces the Western world to this game.

 

[President Earl Warren]

I actually doubt the entire "Hollywood has to cater to Nazis ala OTL China" Idea, mainly because of Demographics. China is a country of a Billion potenial consumers, Germany? Maybe a couple hundred million. Their domain over Eastern Europe is not going to actually have alot of consumers because well...Genocidal Campagins and Mass enslavements do not make for many people who have the time to go out for the movies. Western Europe is likely as not free of Germany by now as Italy breaks off and engages in their mini cold war. Now they may have to curry to the prejudices of the Italian Facists if Scorza took control but that will have diffrent Criteria than a Nazi dominated film industry. And if its completely free with Democracies, then you really dont have to worry about it do you?

 

[S. Marlowski]

I wonder what the meme culture would look like in TNO?