WI: Henry VII dies of the Sweating Sickness?

My objections:
A) AAAAGGEEEE!!!!!
B) The Lancastrians wouldn't fight a civil war just so that their claimants uncle could essentially leave their side and have their enemy(ies)reign.
Well Jasper is not young but neither too old for being unable to have children or to rule, guiding young Elizabeth or better ruling England in her name. Plus Jasper is fully Lancastrian, nobody would ever think he will become a Yorkist marrying EoY. Plus most of Henry Tudor’s army was composed by Yorkist who do not recognized Richard III as King and they would like better Jasper than the bastard of a Beaufort as husband for Elizabeth
 
Well Jasper is not young but neither too old for being unable to have children or to rule, guiding young Elizabeth or better ruling England in her name. Plus Jasper is fully Lancastrian, nobody would ever think he will become a Yorkist marrying EoY. Plus most of Henry Tudor’s army was composed by Yorkist who do not recognized Richard III as King and they would like better Jasper than the bastard of a Beaufort as husband for Elizabeth
Age as in it would be paeodophila.

Why wouldn't he turn Yorkist? His position as king would come through his wife, even if he isn't a Yorkist, public opinion declares him as such.

Uniting the Yorkists is why I suggested Warwick and Lincoln.

Why would the Yorkists want a Lancastrian supporter as king? Atleast the Beauforts had some claim.....
 
Age as in it would be paeodophila.

Why wouldn't he turn Yorkist? His position as king would come through his wife, even if he isn't a Yorkist, public opinion declares him as such.

Uniting the Yorkists is why I suggested Warwick and Lincoln.

Why would the Yorkists want a Lancastrian supporter as king? Atleast the Beauforts had some claim.....
No way, EoY is an adult and young women often married men old enough to be their fathers if politic or alliances required it. Jasper has no reason for stopping to be Lancastrian, and he will rule thanks to his wedding to Elizabeth so he will likely favour his Lancastrian friends and allies and Jasper is in no way a simple supporter of Lancastrian but, blood or not, a full member of the Lancastrian royal family. Henry was born after his father’s death and more-or-less had never know Henry VI, but Jasper was the beloved and very loyal younger (half)-brother of that King, and his staunchest supporter together with his sister-in-law Marguerite, before being Margaret Beaufort‘s loyal brother-in-law and Henry Tudor‘s uncle... Henry Tudor has Beaufort blood but almost no tangible connection emotional or otherwise with Henry VI, but Jasper is a different thing
 
No-one in 1485 is going to raise an eyebrow at at a 54 year-old marrying a girl of 19, provided the politics works. As long as he's still hale enough to make heirs, it's no big deal. In fact, most of the magnates would prefer an older king who will likely die in few years and leave a minor heir to a young, vigorous one who will spend the next 20-30 years entrenching his dynasty.

The real problems for Jasper + Elizabeth are:
- To loyal Lancastrians, this looks a lot like the Yorkists losing on the battlefield but winning in the bedchamber. The putative heir to England will be a grandson of the hated traitor Edward IV and no relative at all of either the Beauforts or the sainted Henry VI.
- It makes Elizabeth (technically) Queen Regnant. England has never had a reigning Queen before and the preference for male heirs - particularly in unstable times - is very very strong (c.f. OTL Henry VIII)
- It makes Jasper Tudor a bedchamber King. Now his dad may have bonked Henry V's widow, but to most English nobles he's still a Welsh nobody without a drop of (English) royal blood. Bowing down to him would be a very bitter pill for men like Oxford and Stanley.

So my money's on a Recency Council for the boy King Edward VI (Stafford). The question is whether he is betrothed to Elizabeth on the unite-the-houses principle or if one of his Guardians makes a play to become royal in-law.

(Incidentally, I've has a quick dig-around for other Beaufort claimants. There aren't many. There's Eleanor Beaufort, Countess of Ormonde, but she's married to a nobody and only has daughters. It's possible that Thomas St Lawrence is a grandson of Edmund Beaufort (via his daughter Joan) but he's five years old and so obscure his maternity is unclear. Apart from Margaret (Stafford's grandma) none of Edmund Beaufort's daughters seem to have married very highly. The senior adult male Beaufort claimant I can find is actually James III of Scotland, via his grandfather's marriage to Joan Beaufort.)
Wrong. Jasper’s son would be nephew of the sainted Henry VI and born from one of the two people most loyal to him until the bitter end and after that (the other being Queen Marguerite) and as Lancastrian blood they will most likely satisfy themselves for now with that who Elizabeth of York inherited by Cecily Neville and the promise of a future Lancastrian blooded princess of Wales...
Empress Matilda’s biggest problem was who many English lords hated (or not trusted) her husband Geoffrey of Anjou and had no intention of being ruled by him, if they had an alternative. If they had liked Matilda‘s husband then she would have zero troubles in claiming and holding her crown
 
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No way, EoY is an adult and young women often married men old enough to be their fathers if politic or alliances required it. Jasper has no reason for stopping to be Lancastrian, and he will rule thanks to his wedding to Elizabeth so he will likely favour his Lancastrian friends and allies and Jasper is in no way a simple supporter of Lancastrian but, blood or not, a full member of the Lancastrian royal family. Henry was born after his father’s death and more-or-less had never know Henry VI, but Jasper was the beloved and very loyal younger (half)-brother of that King, and his staunchest supporter together with his sister-in-law Marguerite, before being Margaret Beaufort‘s loyal brother-in-law and Henry Tudor‘s uncle... Henry Tudor has Beaufort blood but almost no tangible connection emotional or otherwise with Henry VI, but Jasper is a different thing
The world would be a much better place if emotional connections were honoured, but they're not.

And I thought EoY as queen regnant was established here?

Paeodophila as in I cannot support such matches, if you/anyone makes a TL with a 50 y/o marrying a 19 y/o, you can exprct me too oppose it, normal for this time period be damned.
 
The world would be a much better place if emotional connections were honoured, but they're not.

And I thought EoY as queen regnant was established here?

Paeodophila as in I cannot support such matches, if you/anyone makes a TL with a 50 y/o marrying a 19 y/o, you can exprct me too oppose it, normal for this time period be damned.
Well today still happen a lot and is perfectly legal and you are the only one to call it with that name...
Yes, Elizabeth would be Queen Regnant and that mean in practice who Jasper would rule England as King jure-uxoris... so Elizabeth will have the title and the legitimady, Jasper the effective power and rulership...
 
Well today still happen a lot and is perfectly legal and you are the only one to call it with that name...
Yes, Elizabeth would be Queen Regnant and that mean in practice who Jasper would rule England as King jure-uxoris... so Elizabeth will have the title and the legitimady, Jasper the effective power and rulership...
Welp, sorry if I offended you, but I ain't gonna let go of my morals and not gonna call it Paeodophila.

What's stopping EoY from taking all power from Jasper/not giving him any ITTL?
 
Welp, sorry if I offended you, but I ain't gonna let go of my morals and not gonna call it Paeodophila.

What's stopping EoY from taking all power from Jasper/not giving him any ITTL?
Women DO NOT RULE, at least NOT ALONE in that age (Mary Stuart with her second husband and the unmarried Elizabeth Tudor are the first to have power alone). Jasper will be King Consort and likely will have most of the rulership in his hands, plus considering the character of Elizabeth of York is unlikely she will protest too much for that... Husbands of heiresses usually were given full power on their wive’ inheritances and I can not see one single reason for it being different here.
 
Women DO NOT RULE, at least NOT ALONE in that age (Mary Stuart with her second husband and the unmarried Elizabeth Tudor are the first to have power alone). Jasper will be King Consort and likely will have most of the rulership in his hands, plus considering the character of Elizabeth of York is unlikely she will protest too much for that... Husbands of heiresses usually were given full power on their wive’ inheritances and I can not see one single reason for it being different here.
Setting of a precedent.

There were more die hard yorkists than Lancastrians IIRC, they'd try and influence her.
 
Setting of a precedent.

There were more die hard yorkists than Lancastrians IIRC, they'd try and influence her.
Not enough of them would be so foolish to wanting being effectively ruled by Elizabeth stead of Jasper. Her being nominally in charge will be more than enough for them (specially as that would be a bad precedent for their holdings on their wives’ lands)... and surely Jasper will need to compromise a lot with them
 
Not enough of them would be so foolish to wanting being effectively ruled by Elizabeth stead of Jasper. Her being nominally in charge will be more than enough for them (specially as that would be a bad precedent for their holdings on their wives’ lands)... and surely Jasper will need to compromise a lot with them
I did say die hard. Your point is also correct tho.

Still against Jasper-EoY tho
 
I did say die hard. Your point is also correct tho.

Still against Jasper-EoY tho
Her marrying a baby or a bastard would be much worse for everyone, trust me...
And Ferdinand II of Aragon was 54 when he married the 18 years old Germaine of Foix in 1506 (granddaughter of his half-sister), Louis XII was 52 when he married the 18 years old Mary Tudor in 1514, Manuel I of Portugal was 49 when he married the 19 years old Eleanor of Austria (granddaughter of his first cousin and niece of his two precedent wives)
 
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Her marrying a baby or a bastard would be much worse for everyone, trust me...
And Ferdinand II of Aragon was 54 when he married the 18 years old Germaine of Foix in 1506
Who's a baby? Warwick is 10 and Pole is ~25.

The age thing is personal, might have happened IRL, ain't gonna happen in any of my TLs.
 
Who's a baby? Warwick is 10 and Pole is ~25.

The age thing is personal, might have happened IRL, ain't gonna happen in any of my TLs.
Warwick is a baby (ten years old is still a child), Stafford is 7 (another child), Pole is already married with EoY‘s first cousin. And marrying a woman of 20 to a child of 10 is fine for you?
 
Warwick is a baby (ten years old is still a child), Stafford is 7 (another child), Pole is already married with EoY‘s first cousin. And marrying a woman of 20 to a child of 10 is fine for you?
You said Baby, but I get your point.
Freeing Pole would be best for everyone tho
 
The Jasper-Elizabeth of York match is frankly better for everyone involved, they will coalesce the support of both Lancastrians and Yorkists, the only people that I can really see opposing them in a serious manner are A:The Staffords, because Buckingham will find a way to rebel and get himself killed, and B: Those few supporters of Richard III's cause that are left, who will not be able to stand against opposition from the other two factions. The fact that Elizabeth of York has actual legitimacy through being the eldest child of King Edward IV will mean that few Yorkists would want to overthrow her and Jasper. Also, Warwick's father was attained so he'll be unlikely to gain much support for himself.
 
The Jasper-Elizabeth of York match is frankly better for everyone involved, they will coalesce the support of both Lancastrians and Yorkists, the only people that I can really see opposing them in a serious manner are A:The Staffords, because Buckingham will find a way to rebel and get himself killed, and B: Those few supporters of Richard III's cause that are left, who will not be able to stand against opposition from the other two factions. The fact that Elizabeth of York has actual legitimacy through being the eldest child of King Edward IV will mean that few Yorkists would want to overthrow her and Jasper. Also, Warwick's father was attained so he'll be unlikely to gain much support for himself.
The best thing is who Stafford is 7 years old, Warwick is 10 and before either is 15 Queen Elizabeth and King Jasper will have at least a Prince of Wales in the cradle (and possibly other sons). Pole is out of question as his claim came from female line (and is junior to the ones of EoY and Warwick so require them being excluded plus pass over Anne St Ledger who also has an higher claim than his own)
 
The best thing is who Stafford is 7 years old, Warwick is 10 and before either is 15 Queen Elizabeth and King Jasper will have at least a Prince of Wales in the cradle (and possibly other sons). Pole is out of question as his claim came from female line (and is junior to the ones of EoY and Warwick so require them being excluded plus pass over Anne St Ledger who also has an higher claim than his own)
Pole was the Ricardian heir, getting him married to EoY would have been better fot the Yorkists (and yes, I'm a Yorkist, so I ain't gonna be doing the Lancastrians any favors)
 
Pole was the Ricardian heir, getting him married to EoY would have been better fot the Yorkists (and yes, I'm a Yorkist, so I ain't gonna be doing the Lancastrians any favors)
I also am a Yorkist and a pretty strong one but that do not mean who I am so against Lancastrians. Plus Richard NEVER expl named anyone as heir and with a Yorkist Queen already on the throne and with the crown firmly settled on her as her birthright, most of the Yorkist supporters will be satisfied, so a Lancastrian husband would give more peace. And as Pole was already married to a cousin of EoY and was her first cousin marrying them would be quite complicated, plus Richard’s side HAD LOST the last war so the winning side was composed by Edwardian Yorkists and Lancastrians so Jasper as husband of Queen Elizabeth of York make more sense than any other option available
 
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