An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[Βοανηργές]

Ah, they could do that. Why would they do such a thing though? Vlachia's the Ruritania of the Orthodox world, a forgotten land of unwashed peasants and illiteracy. There's no culture there for a Roman retiree to enjoy.

They can escape the shackles of Constantinople which is paranoid about them getting too powerful for their liking. If they are magnates in Vlachia, they are basically kings on their land. Besides, Constantinople is close enough for more than a few trips every year so they can soak up all the plays and chariot races they can fit into their itinerary. They still can maintain a secondary abode in the city before retiring back to their primary Vlach residence for the rest of the year. I mean, even a magnate in Armenia will have reason to visit the capital each year, but that doesn't preclude holding on to his far-flung holdings. If not for long term residence, it could still serve well as an investment. Nevertheless, the magnates could just be huge nature buffs and disdain all the hustle and bustle associated with urban living. I hear the Carpathians are lovely this time of the year.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Demetrios III in his history makes it quite clear that their rhetoric provided opportunities for both Henri II and Ibrahim that they never would’ve received otherwise, and which they skillfully exploited to Rhomania’s detriment.

Because if there's one thing Henri II needs is yet another thing going his way. Although in this case it is more his enemy is a moron rather than anything he did on his own merits. But still, it all counts in the end.

 

[Cryostorm]

Because if there's one thing Henri II needs is yet another thing going his way. Although in this case it is more his enemy is a moron rather than anything he did on his own merits. But still, it all counts in the end.

Unfortunately for Henry and the Triunes he is very much like Andreas I where he is building up the Triunes to a point that they can't maintain long term without an excellent ruler. The second they don't they will find out if they have the resilience of Rhomania.

 

[Duke of Orlando]

Unfortunately for Henry and the Triunes he is very much like Andreas I where he is building up the Triunes to a point that they can't maintain long term without an excellent ruler. The second they don't they will find out if they have the resilience of Rhomania.

I’m actively looking forward to the Triunes exploding. Because once it does I doubt anyone can put it back together. Everything has seemingly gone there way, where even when they lose, they win. And I know you can say that about Rhomania to a certain extent as well. But with the Triunes it’s like the norm to pull gold out of their butt, not the miracle in desperate moment like Rhomania. I’m looking forward to the equal amount of bad luck they’re due

 

[E_x_c_u_b_i_t_o_r_e]

I’m actively looking forward to the Triunes exploding. Because once it does I doubt anyone can put it back together. Everything has seemingly gone there way, where even when they lose, they win. And I know you can say that about Rhomania to a certain extent as well. But with the Triunes it’s like the norm to pull gold out of their butt, not the miracle in desperate moment like Rhomania. I’m looking forward to the equal amount of bad luck they’re due

I hope that the explosion will be glorious where they suffer immensely and won't be able to recover for a very long time. Even if they recover I still hope it will be near impossible to bring back their old glory days.

 

[Sceonn]

One of the biggest plot points in Roman TLs is the 'Crisis-after-Crisis' I feel. While justified in this TL many others just leave you exhausted after a point.

 

[Cryostorm]

One of the biggest plot points in Roman TLs is the 'Crisis-after-Crisis' I feel. While justified in these TL many others just leave you exhausted after a point.

To an extent Rhomania isn't really having that many more crisis than many countries did, look at Russian or Chinese history to see how things can go wrong, they are just in a position that can be very unforgiving to one. That being said this is likely the last major civil war/succession crisis they will be facing in a long time so most threats will be external.

 

[Bronze]

Question: I don't know the first thing about the waters, but would it be possible for the Romans to just move the Imperial Arsenal in Constantinople to the mouth of the Golden Horn in order to churn out more and bigger ships more efficiently?
Considerong that the primary reason that the Constantinopolitan arsenal is inland in the first place is to protect it against a Venetian threat that doesn't exist anymore, it would make much sense to move the whole thing closer to the Marmara.

 

[HanEmpire]

Question: I don't know the first thing about the waters, but would it be possible for the Romans to just move the Imperial Arsenal in Constantinople to the mouth of the Golden Horn in order to churn out more and bigger ships more efficiently?
Considerong that the primary reason that the Constantinopolitan arsenal is inland in the first place is to protect it against a Venetian threat that doesn't exist anymore, it would make much sense to move the whole thing closer to the Marmara.

Mouth of the Golden Horn has the White Palace (irreplaceable) to the south and Galata (full of foreign merchants) to the north. I suppose the Empire could displace the Galatan merchants, but that would disrupt trade in Constantinople and turn many, many wealthy people hostile towards the Empire.

 

[Βοανηργές]

Because once it does I doubt anyone can put it back together.

Fingers crossed for a North Sea Empire 2.0, TTL's Prussia led by TTL's version of Gustavus Aldophus.

I suppose the Empire could displace the Galatan merchants, but that would disrupt trade in Constantinople and turn many, many wealthy people hostile towards the Empire.

The Galata shoreline on the Golden Horn is only around 3km. A new arsenal would take around half of that. Traders will be annoyed, but become hostile only if its a unilateral seizure. The Bosphorus stretches on for 10s of kilometers up north so new grants to displaced merchants would help to develop new satellite towns near Agios Fokas and OTL Arnavutkoy or even the opposite shore of Scutari while reducing overcrowding of Constantinople.

 

[aldonius]

The Bosphorus stretches on for 10s of kilometers up north

Why can't the Arsenal go there, then?

 

[Stark]

Why can't the Arsenal go there, then?

Yeah. Anadoluhisarı and Rumelihisarı were able to cut off Bosphorus with 15th century artillery tech, by now Romans shouldn't have any problem completely shutting Black Sea to Mediterranean. And shipyard should be safe up north (given that Black Sea powers will probably forever be friendlier to Rome than Mediterranean ones).

And trade should have priority for Golden Horn space. Constantinople is now mostly a huge center of commerce and it's value as a fortress diminishes year by year.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

I mean, why does a new Arsenal need to be in the Bosporus or Horn?

Realistically the Empire can treat the entire Sea of Marmara as the heart of a shipbuilding operation. Just going west of Constantinople, along the coast would do, and they're so close to Constantinople that if fortified they also help to defend the city itself in a worse-case scenario.

 

[E_x_c_u_b_i_t_o_r_e]

Yeah. Anadoluhisarı and Rumelihisarı were able to cut off Bosphorus with 15th century artillery tech, by now Romans shouldn't have any problem completely shutting Black Sea to Mediterranean. And shipyard should be safe up north (given that Black Sea powers will probably forever be friendlier to Rome than Mediterranean ones).

And trade should have priority for Golden Horn space. Constantinople is now mostly a huge center of commerce and it's value as a fortress diminishes year by year.

I don't think it's value as a fortress will be diminished in the slightest. If anything its value will still be great since it provides better safety than other center of trade nodes.

Even other cities can't totally guarantee the safety of its own merchants. Look at Kings Harbour the war with the Dutch practically shows how dangerous the area is. That's not considering this ttl Blucher and Hohenzollern offensive that basically was raiding it's suberbs

 

[Stark]

I don't think it's value as a fortress will be diminished in the slightest. If anything its value will still be great since it provides better safety than other center of trade nodes.

Even other cities can't totally guarantee the safety of its own merchants. Look at Kings Harbour the war with the Dutch practically shows how dangerous the area is. That's not considering this ttl Blucher and Hohenzollern offensive that basically was raiding it's suberbs

I don't recall the event but King's Harbour was probably threatened by sea? In that case it mostly proves my point, straits can be fortified and hostile vessels be kept safely out of Bosphorus and Marmara.

Therefore, since space in Constantinople is limited, I think priority should be given to commerce rather than safety of shipyards - if straits are shut to enemy, you aren't exposing shipyards to naval attack by puting them outside of Constantinople (and any land attack that comes that far means empire is in deep trouble even without the threat to itsshipbuilding capacity), while you can gain a lot by expanding commercial capacity of Constantinople and Golden Horn.

 

[Israel_Dan the Man]

Hey, @Basileus444 , on alternate history wikia, one of my favorite timelines has an incarnation of the Byzantine Empire that I think you'd like: https://althistory.fandom.com/wiki/Byzantine_Empire_(The_Kalmar_Union)

 

[Bronze]

Looking at the map, I think that either Büyükçekmece or Küçükçekmece would be good places for a new Imperial Arsenal. What say you?

Spoiler: Map

 

[Evilprodigy]

Looking at the map, I think that either Büyükçekmece or Küçükçekmece would be good places for a new Imperial Arsenal. What say you?

That's crazy I was looking at the exact same place.

Geographically it might be fine, though water height could be a problem. Relocating all the skilled labourers would be the most difficult process and setting up all the infrastructure to support their lives (foods and other services) not just the construction of ships.

 

[Lascaris]

I mean, why does a new Arsenal need to be in the Bosporus or Horn?

Realistically the Empire can treat the entire Sea of Marmara as the heart of a shipbuilding operation. Just going west of Constantinople, along the coast would do, and they're so close to Constantinople that if fortified they also help to defend the city itself in a worse-case scenario.

The obvious place is modern Golcuk near Nicomedeia in TTL.

 

[Lascaris]

The obvious place is modern Golcuk near Nicomedeia in TTL.

Also if memory serves at the time Venice went down to Napoleon the arsenal had a dozen ships of the line under construction. If we assume Constantinople is similar this means a capacity to simultaneously build 2 dozen liners at any time just in the two arsenals.