Naval Equipment that should and shouldn't have entered service

a;. Step 1.



And the conclusion?



B. Step 2.



Note that necessity is the cause.



About the above..



More about the above.



Step 3. And this goes to FAA air defense.



Note further.



The United States Navy was paying close attention since it was the Federal Yards that repaired all of this damage.

It gets worse.



Who could foresee radar or the Wildcat or the Zero? As for fleet air defense and the Seafire's role...

Read this and ponder it hard.



It gets MUCH WORSE.



Next time someone argues armored box hangers as opposed to American superstructure and armored overhead, ask them why the Maltas were open hanger designs and why was the British fleet air defense so poor, You will find the proper answers here. (^^^)

The Americans managed a 50% kill in the air of the massed human piloted cruise missile attacks off Okinawa with their Hellcats. They were the shield for the BPF. Properly so. The British were not prepared for the Japanese at all. They were like the 1917 Doughboys in France and as the British Tommies shielded them then from the veteran Germans, it was the USN's turn to repay that blood debt.

McP.
You are using Slade and Worth again!?
Its been thoroughly de-bunked, and contains many actual factual errors.
For example, HMS Formidable never carried 20mm armed Corsairs.
HMS Indomitable never had a fire in 1951. The actual damage report says 1953, and the damage was NOT significant enough to prevent its deployment to the Mediterranean. Nor subsequent use in deck-landing trials.
And to be absolutely clear the claim that Indomitable had to be towed to the Coronation review is completely fallacious. She preceded under her own power.
Nor did she go "straight to the breakers", she spent another 2 years in reserve before being scrapped.

Oh, slight Ninja in the post above!
 
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McPherson

Banned
The numbers have not been debunked. And the rebuttal actually does nothing to refute the ship's bills or combat histories used by Slade and Worth at all.

The US solution to this dilemma was to consider building a large fleet of small carriers (though this was never implemented). At least some decks would survive the first strike, they thought. This eventually evolved into the 'dispersed carriers' doctrine where even carriers operating together would be positioned separately from each other and the main fleet body with their own escorts in order to reduce chances of all of them being discovered. This doctrine persisted until well into 1943.

The British solution, along with a shift of the axis of their primary threat from Japan to Italy and Germany, was to increase the survivability of their fleet carriers through armour and other "passive" defence devices such as their avgas fuel containment systems, hangar sprayers, fire curtains and deep magazines. A smaller air-group was considered an acceptable trade-off as the naval fighters of the time appeared to be on the brink of being useless. Ironically, British doctrine was evolving towards multi-carrier task groups - though war circumstances generally prevented this from happening.

And as I have written, the Americans noted that the British armored box hanger carriers when hit, took months to repair and were NEVER RIGHT after they were sprung by transmitted shock damage to the framing. American carriers and we know this from the same sources were not so damaged. The postwar Essexes hit by kamikaze attack served on for years.

BTW American doctrine in aircraft carrier combat proved correct. Massing together gets everybody killed in a first strike.

As for Indomitable... she was scrapped exactly as claimed. Why?

Indomitable was SCRAPPED as cited. WHY? (Wait for it.).

So the rebuttal cited is wrong on several key historical and data points and one knows this because I pointed at it at the time when this so called rebuttal was trotted out. Example: American carriers were back in action after local repairs of mere days. Yorktown and Enterprise being the classic examples.

The hit British carriers which were bomb damaged conventionally about the same time or just before, were out a half year on average and in some cases a whole year. And postwar they were scrap metal. SCRAP METAL. Which was expected by the way because they were war emergency builds. Might as well have been sunk for all the good they did when they were pranged and mission killed. Might point out that WASP made two runs to Malta. How did that work out?

Let me tell you. Not a scratch. BUT the planes she delivered to Malta were bombed immediately on the ground soon as they landed after her first run so she had to rinse and repeat.

As for torpedo bait... Which would you rather be in? Ark Royal or Yorktown? Hint: Yorktown was HARD to kill. Better built ship.

Now for Indomitable... The fire and explosion of 3 February 1953 was never repaired. If she made her way to the fleet review, it was definitely assisted. Why was she scrapped in 1955 again? Another hint... she was ruined.
 
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**********

... I don't get it... what does this whole story has to do with the Seafire being any good?

Also, "every British carrier suffered at least one hit"... and? Afaik, this means 4. What does it prove? The USN suffered hits on 27 carriers, from fleet to escort...
 

McPherson

Banned
@Cryhavoc101

1. I used an Australian source, too, if you noticed to lead in? Same conclusions.
2. USS Essex was ordered in q1940, so she was designed in 1939 or earlier. Her common descent from Yorktown and Wasp is fairly obvious. The war lessons had not sunk in yet. Won't see those until postwar.

But there were in war mods, to improve av-gas safety and fire fighting. The TDS was improved but still inadequate. Notably about Essex is that she grows a hurricane bow, has an armored overhead and an angle deck gets slapped on her... postwar, but her essential Yorktowness remains.

Incidentally on 25 November Essex took a Kamikaze on her flight deck.

Smith, Peter C. (2014). Kamikaze: To Die For The Emperor. Barnsley, UK: Pen & Sword Books Ltd. p. 32.

She never left station. 10 days and she was back at it. Halsey introduced her to three typhoons in as many months. Still on station. She was the first of the finest breed of her improved Yorktown type of WWII. She served until 1969. 1967 She recovered Apollo 7.

She was the ship on which Neil Armstrong learned to fly.

Name me a ship with that kind of pedigree? Enterprise and maybe Yorktown, her design forbears. Maybe Wahoo, Tang, Flasher, Barb or Silversides, Trigger or Drum. Or Samuel D. Roberts, and Heerman and Johnston and Sterrett as destroyers. Maybe Juneau and San Francisco as cruisers.
 

McPherson

Banned
... I don't get it... what does this whole story has to do with the Seafire being any good?

Also, "every British carrier suffered at least one hit"... and? Afaik, this means 4. What does it prove? The USN suffered hits on 27 carriers, from fleet to escort...

It failed. I think there were ~80 Seafires off Okinawa? Most of the FAA successful intercepts were Corsairs.
 
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You know what I really don't understand? Why are people still comparing british and US carriers, when they were built for completely diferent purposes?!

The USN designed & built it's carriers in the 1930s to fight a naval war in the Pacific, against their foreseen enemy, the japanese fleet. This mean that the enemy air threat consisted of small aircraft, carrying small bombs or torpedoes. So, not much anti-bomb armour was thought needed. Since they would sail in the Pacific, long range was a must.

The RN designed & built it's carriers in the 1930s to (mainly) fight wars against european enemies; this meant having to survive being attacked by large land based aircraft, carrying large bombs. And, since these were designed before radar, they assumed they would be attacked and hit, before interception was possible, with great damage being an almost certainty. When the japanese threat became a possibilty, the main focus was still on japanese land bombers. As for range... european wars, remember? If the RN needed to sail to other places, the british empire had refueling stations all over the globe; they didn't need long range.

There is also another point, that greatly influenced their tactics and design. The USN was very fortunate in getting two very large decks early on (the converted BCs) on the cheap, that allowed them to try and test large, massed air strikes. The RN never did, so it could only try small groups; their carrier tactics involved small strikes, designed to grind the enemy down, allowing the BBs to do the actually killing. The RN also started to develop night attack tactics. When time came to build new units (mid 1930s), the combination of their experience so, the need to armour against heavy air bombs, a treasury that did not want to spend a pound more than it could, the need to sail in areas that are extremely harsh (North Atlantic) and the need to stay within the treaty, created the heavily armoured and reinforced but small Ilustrious class.

So, please stop comparing these carriers. Just because both types carried planes does not mean they are comparable.
 
Just a quick correction to a statement in post 368 "Might point out that WASP made two runs to Malta. How did that work out?" Fact; Wasp did not make two runs to Malta, she made two runs to within 600 miles west of Malta to fly of RAF fighters to the Island. That is very different to naval actions and escorting convoys convoys further east in the Sicilian Narrows. Please get facts right, the devil is in the detail.
 
Now for Indomitable... The fire and explosion of 3 February 1953 was never repaired. If she made her way to the fleet review, it was definitely assisted. Why was she scrapped in 1955 again? Another hint... she was ruined.
Gee, it's almost like Indomitable as she was was outdated, and rebuilding her was currently being shown to be eye-wateringly expensive by what was going on with Victorious, and the Brits had three newer and better carriers either built or under construction.

Here's a Parliament minute saying she would be operational after her temporary repairs.

And this says that she was scrapped to free up manpower for just-commissioned Ark Royal, which makes complete sense with the Royal Navy's manpower crunch at the time.
 

McPherson

Banned
Just a quick correction to a statement in post 368 "Might point out that WASP made two runs to Malta. How did that work out?" Fact; Wasp did not make two runs to Malta, she made two runs to within 600 miles west of Malta to fly of RAF fighters to the Island. That is very different to naval actions and escorting convoys convoys further east in the Sicilian Narrows. Please get facts right, the devil is in the detail.

Okay. Here it is with the bark off.

The United States Navy was INFURIATED. One of its scarce flattops which it needed desperately had been risked to no purpose during Operation Calendar.

Let me quote...

Wasp collected 52 aircraft from Shieldhall on the River Clyde, from No. 601 Squadron RAF and No. 603 Squadron RAF, with pilots. The aircraft to be conveyed were Spitfire VBs fitted with external fuel tanks to extend their range. They were, however, inadequately prepared. The external tanks leaked badly, a fault that recurred on "Club Runs"; in addition, many of the aircraft's guns were faulty and most of their radios did not work.[1]

Wasp sailed from Glasgow on 14 April 1942 with her escort, destroyers USS Lang and Madison, and was joined by the British battlecruiser HMS Renown and her escort.[note 2] When this squadron, codenamed Force W, passed Gibraltar overnight on 18–19 April, they were joined by cruisers HMS Charybdis and Cairo and destroyers HMS Westcott, Wishart, Vidette, Wrestler and Antelope. During final preparations, the faults mentioned above were detected, but too late to be rectified.[1]

On 20 April, with Wasp's Grumman F4F Wildcats providing air cover, 48 Spitfires flew off.[1]

What happened?

This addition to Malta's defences was in vain. The Luftwaffe anticipated the Spitfires' arrival and bombed Ta'Qali airfield within minutes of their arrival. Most were caught on the ground and within 48 hours all were destroyed. Those that did fly were hampered by the faults with which they had arrived.[1]

The island's Governor, Lieutenant General Sir William Dobbie, reported that the local condition was critical. He was soon replaced; the view was that he should have ensured adequate protection for the Spitfires and for an earlier convoy which had been sunk in harbour. Lord Gort was his replacement.[1] The loss of the Spitfires made the subsequent Operation Bowery even more essential.

Operation Bowery...

Let me quote...again.

USS Wasp returned to Glasgow on 29 April 1942, where she loaded 47 Spitfires Mk Vc at King George V dock at Shieldhall.[1][note 1] The condition of the aircraft was no better than it had been for Calendar; the essential long-range fuel tanks still fitted badly and, consequently, leaked. Wasp's captain, Reeves, refused to continue loading until the fault had been fixed on some tanks and then agreed to perform the remaining work with his own personnel. This fault had been notified to the British authorities as it had affected Calendar and its recurrence was a serious embarrassment.[3]

Hunh. So aviation mates aboard Wasp were fixing that bolo?

and her escorting force (Force W) sailed from Scapa Flow on 3 May. A further 17 Spitfires, delayed from previous "Club Runs", were transported by HMS Eagle, which joined Force W on 7/8 May from Gibraltar.[3][note 2] On 9 May 1942, 64 Spitfires were flown off USS Wasp and HMS Eagle (61 arrived). One aircraft and its pilot was lost on takeoff.

Let me quote some more.

On Malta, lessons had been learnt from the disaster of Operation Calendar and detailed preparations had been made to get the Spitfires airborne before they could become targets. On arrival, aircraft were dispersed into protected areas and rapidly refuelled and rearmed - one within six minutes of landing - and the newly arrived fighters were airborne, with fresh, experienced pilots, over Malta awaiting the air raid intended to destroy them.[1] In the mêlée, the Italian formation (CANT Z.1007 bombers escorted by MC.202 fighters) was seen off[1] and 47 German aircraft were destroyed or damaged, for the loss of three British.[note 4] This air battle (sometimes dubbed the "Battle of Malta") abruptly ended daytime bombing of Malta.[3]

The runs whether by British or American flattops and flyoffs during a club run were the same. Seems the British ran a couple of club runs prior where they knew they had screwed the pooch on the fuel tanks, guns, radios, etc., and the op security was NTG and nothing was done to fix those serious errors.

The fiasco of Operation Calendar was a lesson learned matrix that never should have had to happen for Bowery, nor should inter-Allied friction had to be necessary to fix the mistakes persistently made. British security for Calendar was lax, , aircraft modification of the Spitfires for purpose inadequate and reception of the planes flown into Malta not well thought out or planned. Bowery fixed some of those issues, but as can be seen not all of those Bolos were fixed, and some of those that were... was the direct work of the United States Navy.

Including the politics to fix the leadership issues. When it takes chief of state to chief of state, then something is seriously wrong. But, then the United States Navy already knew this problem from previous interactions with the Royal Navy. I have written about them.
 
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McPherson

Banned
Gee, it's almost like Indomitable as she was was outdated, and rebuilding her was currently being shown to be eye-wateringly expensive by what was going on with Victorious, and the Brits had three newer and better carriers either built or under construction.

Here's a Parliament minute saying she would be operational after her temporary repairs.

And this says that she was scrapped to free up manpower for just-commissioned Ark Royal, which makes complete sense with the Royal Navy's manpower crunch at the time.

USS Franklin

CVA 13 - CVS 13 - AVT 8
Photos: [Franklin as completed], [Exploding and burning 19 March 1945], [Port side view of Franklin burning], [Closeup view of the stricken carrier 19 March 1945], [Franklin returns home for repairs].
DANFS History

Built by Newport News. Laid down 7 Dec 1942, launched 14 Oct 1943, commissioned 31 Jan 1944.
Served with the Carrier TF during WWII. Kamikazes at Luzon 15 Oct 1944 and 30 Oct 1944. Hit by numerous bombs off Kyushu 19 March 1945 during a raid on the Japanese home islands. Bombs and fires caused massive damage, completely destroying the hangar and flight deck; ship had a serious list due to firefighting water. Over 700 crew died. Temporarily repaired at sea and was able to return to New York Navy Yard under her own power for permanent repairs; most seriously damaged carrier to reach port. During repairs everything from the hangar floor up, except the island and forward flight deck, was removed and replaced.

Did not resume flight operations following repairs, decommissioned to reserve 17 Feb 1947. Was in excellent condition and held in reserve for potential "ultimate" Essex class conversion.

Redesignated as an attack carrier (CVA 13) 1 October 1952, as an ASW carrier (CVS 13) 8 Aug 1953, and as an aviation transport (AVT 8) 5/59, all while in reserve. Stricken for disposal 1 October 1964, sold for scrapping 7/1966, scrapped at Norfolk VA 1966-1968.

Navies lie. I have written about that problem, too.
 
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Ok then . . . how about the RFA's "Round Table" class?

View attachment 581931

Why not more 'Fearless' vessels instead? Why have a fleet of LSL's that can beach themselves when the gaffer doesn't bother using this option in San Carlos in '82 thus slowing down the length of the landing operation? At least with the 'Fearless' class you have the option of more LCU's. The 'Round Tables' didn't carry enough Mexeflottes down South, only carrying three units.

Much obliged!
I think San Carlos was pretty rocky and really shallow in places making beaching an issue.
 
I am not sure that the November's could be classified as 'less troublesome' - radiation leaks and sinking being amongst their faults, a general issue with Soviet submarine classes. From memory they have lost submarines from November, Yankee, Mike and Oscar classes and come very close with Echo's and Victors and these are the ones we know about
They also had an Alfa nearly have a melt-down alongside when the shore power supply was cut as no one had paid the power bill for nearly a year. The reactor was fried and she never moved on her own power again.
 
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McPherson

Banned
This is your problem, sometimes: you're allergic to stating your point clearly.

Where is the US Navy lying here?

USS Franklin. The fire from the Kamikaze hit had reached the hull metal below the hanger line and ruined her annealing. She was worthless scrap.

=======================================================================

Might add this little bit of the record after Churchill asked his navy what happened to it in the Indian Ocean and why it happened.

It makes for interesting reading. Remember what is happening in the macro. read it only if one wants to know how I reached my conclusions earlier.

Minute from Prime Minister to First Lord of Admiralty, First Sea Lord and Fifth Sea Lord

[ADM 1/ 11980] 14 April 1942

Comparison between aircraft complement of British and Japanese aircraft carriers


Let me have the estimated aircraft of different patterns borne on each of the five Japanese Aircraft Carriers in the Indian Ocean and in our INDOMITABLE, ILLUSTRIOUS, FORMIDABLE. Let me also have the tonnage on both sides.

What is the explanation why the Japanese are able to carry so many more aircraft than we do? What is the explanation why ships like ILLUSTRIOUS, FORMIDABLE and INDOMITABLE should be described as not fully trained considering they have not been engaged for over a year and have been working up for several months? What are the aircraft for the FORMIDABLE which were left behind at Colombo? What steps have been taken to replenish her and arm INDOMITABLE with Martlets? These issues are causing very considerable concern.

Minute from First Lord of Admiralty to Prime Minister
[ADM 1/ 11980] 16 April 1942
Comparison between aircraft complement of British and Japanese aircraft carriers


I attach a memorandum prepared by the 5th Sea Lord and the Naval Staff in answer to your Personal Minute No. M. 136/ 2 of the 14th April.

Memorandum by Fifth Sea Lord
[ADM 1/ 11980] 16 April 1942
Comparison between aircraft complement of British and Japanese aircraft carriers


With reference to the Prime Minister’s personal minute No. M. 136/ 2 of the 14th April –

I. Let me have the estimated aircraft of different patterns borne on each of the five Japanese Aircraft Carriers in the Indian Ocean and in our INDOMITABLE, ILLUSTRIOUS, FORMIDABLE. Let me also have the tonnage on both sides. The following are the known details of the Japanese carriers, as compared with our own, in the Indian Ocean. The list shows the tonnage on both sides.

II. What is the explanation why the Japanese are able to carry so many more aircraft than we do?
(i) With the possible exceptions of the SHOKAKU and ZUIKAKU, they are unarmoured and are therefore larger for the equivalent weight. (Our COURAGEOUS (unarmoured) Class carried as many, of [sic] not more, than the Japanese carriers of equivalent tonnage.)
(ii) Their actual tonnage is probably in excess of that disclosed.
(iii) Accommodation for personnel is more congested than would be acceptable for Europeans.
(iv) They are possibly carrying and operating a deck cargo of aircraft as is the practice of the U.S.A. aircraft carriers.

III. What is the explanation why ships like ILLUSTRIOUS, FORMIDABLE and INDOMITABLE should be described as not fully trained considering they have not been engaged for over a year and have been working up for several months?

State of training of INDOMITABLE, FORMIDABLE and ILLUSTRIOUS.

INDOMITABLE, from reports received from her late Commanding Officer, from the R.A.A. Mediterranean after his visit to her at Port Sudan, and from Admiralty officers who have recently visited her, is an efficient ship from the air point of view.
This ship had a proper work up period and in spite of the fact that she had to disembark her squadrons whilst carrying out two R.A.F. fighter ferrying trips is still efficient.
FORMIDABLE, left her two T.B.R. Squadrons in the Mediterranean when she sailed for repairs in U.S.A. She took with her one squadron of Swordfish which was a ‘scratch’ collection of pilots due to leave the station. This squadron was left at Jamaica during the refit. ILLUSTRIOUS left her squadrons in the Eastern Mediterranean and took no aircraft when she went to refit in U.S.A.
For one year FORMIDABLE and ILLUSTRIOUS were in dockyard hands, and their squadrons were in the Mediterranean to which station it was intended that they should return.
The Admiralty’s original intention was that FORMIDABLE and ILLUSTRIOUS should return to the Mediterranean with one fighter squadron and one T.B.R. Squadron each, thus increasing the Naval air strength in the Mediterranean by two fighter and one T.B.R. squadron. These squadrons were given sound training in the United Kingdom but it became necessary to re-equip the two fighter squadrons with Martlets and provide two T.B.R. squadrons for each ship, thus bringing them to full aircraft complement before sailing for the Eastern Fleet.
The only way the two additional T.B.R. squadrons could be found was by bringing home the squadron from Jamaica and using a half squadron ex ARK ROYAL. Both these squadrons had to be brought to full strength and worked up in what was known to be an inadequate period.
FORMIDABLE and ILLUSTRIOUS both had to be sailed for the Eastern Fleet without an adequate work up period. Had all the squadrons even been properly worked up before joining the carriers, the latter would still not have been efficient without training at sea. Both with some inadequately trained squadrons the carriers had to start almost from scratch and do their best to work up on the passage out.
The fighter squadrons had to be worked up on the few Martlet aircraft then available in the United Kingdom, and re-equipped with the Martlets brought over by FORMIDABLE and ILLUSTRIOUS. These aircraft were already months behind scheduled delivery dates.
Neither of these two fighter squadrons were in consequence as well trained as was desirable, principally owing to lack of Martlets on which they could train. The deck landing training carrier1 which was available in pre-war days and at the start of the war, became increasingly used for aircraft ferrying from the invasion of Norway onwards. The training carrier is now employed on operational duties at Gibraltar.
When individual pilots untrained in deck landing are embarked, the first line carrier must devote to ‘ab initio’ training valuable time which should properly be devoted to operational training.

SUMMARY.

In conclusion, it is desired to emphasise that a carrier can only be worked up and kept in efficient air training by constant practice at sea. This in turn depends on both the carrier and her aircraft being available.
In the case of FORMIDABLE and ILLUSTRIOUS, neither carrier was available, as they were laid up for repairs and had to be sailed for their operational theatre after an inadequate period for working up. Their aircraft could not be given sufficient squadron training before the carriers arrived from the U.S.A. owing to:–
(a) Insufficient Martlets being available.
(b) Two of their proper T.B.R. squadrons having to be retained in the Eastern Mediterranean, which meant that two inadequately trained squadrons had to be provided in their place.

IV. What are the aircraft for the FORMIDABLE which were left behind at Colombo?

These were two Fulmar squadrons in Colombo which were flown there from the Eastern Mediterranean. Both these squadrons had been flying Hurricanes and had not been one year ashore while the FORMIDABLE and ILLUSTRIOUS were refitting. Many of their pilots were new and had not been trained in deck landing as there was no deck landing training carrier at home nor was there a carrier in the Mediterranean on which to train them.

V. What steps have been taken to replenish her and are INDOMITABLE with Martlets?

Replacement aircraft are now en route to the East Indies direct from U.S.A. in ILLUSTRIOUS, and by freighter from United Kingdom. Reserves of all types, except Martlets which were not available, were already in Ceylon but owing to the lack of R.A.F. aircraft, these reserves, so laboriously built up, are being flown in the defence of Ceylon by spare Naval pilots and those R.A.F. pilots which could be collected.

Seafires, the Naval version of the Spitfire, are being dispatched to replace INDOMITABLE’s Sea Hurricanes. If INDOMITABLE is re-equipped with Martlets the results may well be that those squadrons now equipped with Martlets in FORMIDABLE and ILLUSTRIOUS will have inadequate reserves. If undue wastage is not experienced on Martlets an additional squadron could be formed from those being shipped in mid summer [1942].

Pretty much what I wrote previous in this thread. From the RN itself after the debacle off Sri Lanka.
 
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And as such you think that Parliament minute I cited earlier is a load of bullshit the Royal Navy is serving Parliament. Alright. Considering Slade blatantly gets his facts wrong about the timing of Indomitable's fire and her retirement until I get around to financing further book purchases on Royal Navy carriers postwar I'm inclined to stick to my opinion that it was more finances and the complete shitshow that was Victorious' rebuild that prompted Indomitable's early retirement. Wouldn't have been the last time, either; see Victorious' own early retirement.
 
@Cryhavoc101

1. I used an Australian source, too, if you noticed to lead in? Same conclusions.
2. USS Essex was ordered in q1940, so she was designed in 1939 or earlier. Her common descent from Yorktown and Wasp is fairly obvious. The war lessons had not sunk in yet. Won't see those until postwar.

But there were in war mods, to improve av-gas safety and fire fighting. The TDS was improved but still inadequate. Notably about Essex is that she grows a hurricane bow, has an armored overhead and an angle deck gets slapped on her... postwar, but her essential Yorktowness remains.

Incidentally on 25 November Essex took a Kamikaze on her flight deck.

Smith, Peter C. (2014). Kamikaze: To Die For The Emperor. Barnsley, UK: Pen & Sword Books Ltd. p. 32.

She never left station. 10 days and she was back at it. Halsey introduced her to three typhoons in as many months. Still on station. She was the first of the finest breed of her improved Yorktown type of WWII. She served until 1969. 1967 She recovered Apollo 7.

She was the ship on which Neil Armstrong learned to fly.

Name me a ship with that kind of pedigree? Enterprise and maybe Yorktown, her design forbears. Maybe Wahoo, Tang, Flasher, Barb or Silversides, Trigger or Drum. Or Samuel D. Roberts, and Heerman and Johnston and Sterrett as destroyers. Maybe Juneau and San Francisco as cruisers.

You will get no disagreement from me on the Essex class being the best of all the CV designs in WW2

However they were not treaty limited and certainly did benefit from the 4 year gap between the designs allowing for learnings from the Yorktown's and Wasp - and the shared early war time experiences of the British

Essex was laid down in April 1941 and while there is no doubt that they are an evolution of the Yorktown the extra years between the design provided them with a much greater amount of armour, improved machinary layout, better TDS and being far larger than both the Yorktown and the Illustrious class, better at operating aircraft and more of them

If you really want to compare carriers then compare the Illustrious class to the Yorktown's - USA's treaty limited carriers and not one that was freed from the shackles of the 2LNT limitations.
 
The Essex class was designed under WNT limits to 27,000 tons, just like the North Carolinas and South Dakotas. The Iowas also began as treaty battleships under the 2LNT escaltor clause and only added a lot of weight after the war began. The tonnage limits imposed on the Navy by Congress were informed by the treaties that Congress had ratified. It may not be accurate to say that the Essex design was limited by the WNT, but it would be accurate to say that the design was legally limited to 27,000 tons, the same as the WNT limit for aircraft carriers. The first US capital ships that were built without any measure of adherence to the interwar treaties were the Midways and Montanas.
 
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