TL-191 Uniform, weapons and equipment of the Secondary Combatants.
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Or they could have this thing, the Vickers Berthier, which the OTL British Indian Army had in WWII.
For the world of Submachine Guns, I was wonder of what could they have. Perhaps they first use French and Confederate SMGs, then go on to develop their own designs.
Yeah plus they probably keep using the Vickers as well.
Or they could have this thing, the Vickers Berthier, which the OTL British Indian Army had in WWII.
The pic below shows a jeep with both the Lewis gun and the Vickers so more of these in this alt-WWII.
I didn't know that, might the Lewis gun been developed in the CS? If so it could've been used by the Brits as well, either that or the US used it or its butterflied.
No. TLDR is that the Lewis Gun was based on a failed prototype, the McLean machine gun, and the man who made it into what it turned out as was born in New Salem, Pennsylvania.
EDIT: This might actually have a roundabout impact on the German language. Why? OTL, the Germans LOVED the Lewis gun, but couldn't depend on capturing what they needed in terms of light machine guns. Leading to the development of the MG08/15, which was so famous, it became a by-word for "generic" and "common" even up to when I was a kid. Here, both the US Army and the Heer should have Lewis guns up the wazoo.
EDIT: This might actually have a roundabout impact on the German language. Why? OTL, the Germans LOVED the Lewis gun, but couldn't depend on capturing what they needed in terms of light machine guns. Leading to the development of the MG08/15, which was so famous, it became a by-word for "generic" and "common" even up to when I was a kid. Here, both the US Army and the Heer should have Lewis guns up the wazoo.
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I doubt they'd have any Bren-type guns: the weapon the Bren was developed from was a Czech LMG, which would be Austro-Hungarian in this timeline.
Or they could have this thing, the Vickers Berthier, which the OTL British Indian Army had in WWII.
For the world of Submachine Guns, I was wonder of what could they have. Perhaps they first use French and Confederate SMGs, then go on to develop their own designs.
They'd likely develop the Hotchkiss or Madsen LMG to stay within the Allied or Neutral sphere.
In terms of SMG's, well, the British showed they weren't above copying successful designs (see the Lanchester SMG) so I wouldn't put it past them to do the same here.
Vickers–Berthier - Wikipedia
I'd imagine the French would be putting a lot empathsis into Super Heavy Barrel development.
One of these could be similar in most respect to the OTL FCM F1 prototype.
One of these could be similar in most respect to the OTL FCM F1 prototype.
I honestly disagree: the implications given are that the mindset of the Allies as regards barrel/tank deployment were inverse to those in reality, with emphasis placed on blitzkrieg-style tactics of fast movement and infiltration, which only failed for the allies because they lacked the martial logistics to carry them through once they actually hit the German border (they quickly overran Belgium and the Netherlands.) Super-heavies were mroe in line with WWI tactics of grueling sieges and trench warfare, which the Allies wanted to avoid for the simple reason of "well, it didn't work last time, so let's try something different."
This can be inferred from Featherston sending Anne Colleton to France to confer with Action Francaise shortly before the war broke out: it would imagine she would have shared some of the CSA's planned tactical operations with the French (and by extension the British, who would in turn share with the Russians)
This can be inferred from Featherston sending Anne Colleton to France to confer with Action Francaise shortly before the war broke out: it would imagine she would have shared some of the CSA's planned tactical operations with the French (and by extension the British, who would in turn share with the Russians)
A PIAT from a private collector in the USA, circa 2012.
The PIAT, which stands for Projector, Infantry Anti-Tank, was a British designed and built portable Barrel Busting weapon that was first fielded in 1942 on the Western Front. The PIAT was developed as a replacement for the Boys Anti-Barrel Rifle for the AB due to the increased armor protection on German Panzers. The weapon's projectile, which featured a shaped charge, proved to be devastating against enemy barrels and fortified positions, which the latter was an additional use for the weapon. The users of the PIAT aside from the British were the French, Australians, Indians, Russians, Canadian Partisans, Mexico, and the Confederates (who had copied the PIAT as the M1943 Light Anti-Barrel Grenade Discharger.)
If I can regress to topic of helmets. I always thought it would make sense for Confederate soldiers to wear the 1915 Brodie helmet because so much of their kit would need to come from British factories. (Realistically speaking, the South faced enormous political hurdles to industrialization. I feel that Turtledove was far too generous, and far too generic, when it came to Southern industry and war products.)
For the United States, the descriptions in the text (read so long ago that I can no longer think where to find them) reminded me of the Zuckerman helmet, with its tall steeple; a metal top hat; or a conical steel hat with brim. One consideration is that losing the Civil War would have probably doomed West Point as the institution that had incubated treason. This would cripple the Regular Army and create even more dependence upon state militias and the United States Volunteers, in turn producing a very uneven standard of kit. While American industry would be more than up to the task of supplying such a diversity, I wouldn’t expect a fully uniform appearance for Federal forces even by the early twentieth century—and that’s still assuming that the notion of a professional military school took hold again after the defeats of the 1880s.
Out West, probably many soldiers would be issued slouch hats and khaki. The long-running conflicts with Native Americans and Mormons, not to mention inevitable cross-border skirmishing, would probably lead to a soldier with an appearance much different than the “peacock militia” on the East Coast, where uniform articles would be chosen for style, not comfort or battlefield utility. I assume Confederate association with filibusters and the occupation of Cuba would result in their use of cork helmets for service in tropical climes.
Given the border problems, expect dragoons and mounted rifles to slide back out from under the thumb of a generalized cavalry corps. That brings back orange and dark-green braid, along with an opportunity for some gorgeous parade uniforms.
Think about the impact on the Great Lakes if the United States and Canada were to remain at odds well past the Civil War. Rather than cooperate, each nation would probably have build its own set of canals. As during the War of 1812, expect a naval race, along with enthusiasm for the kinds of coastal battleships popular in Scandinavia for Baltic service during the Interwar Period. Just to stake out the differences, the Union would probably retain blue and white as their service colors, while the Confederates replace white with blue-gray.
The Confederacy would probably opt for a cruiser-heavy order of battle, leaving construction of battlewagons to the British and French. The purpose of this fleet would be to conduct commerce raiding. As during the Civil War, I do see the South leaning heavily on new invention, including submarines, aeroplanes, airships, and aircraft carriers.
For the United States, the descriptions in the text (read so long ago that I can no longer think where to find them) reminded me of the Zuckerman helmet, with its tall steeple; a metal top hat; or a conical steel hat with brim. One consideration is that losing the Civil War would have probably doomed West Point as the institution that had incubated treason. This would cripple the Regular Army and create even more dependence upon state militias and the United States Volunteers, in turn producing a very uneven standard of kit. While American industry would be more than up to the task of supplying such a diversity, I wouldn’t expect a fully uniform appearance for Federal forces even by the early twentieth century—and that’s still assuming that the notion of a professional military school took hold again after the defeats of the 1880s.
Out West, probably many soldiers would be issued slouch hats and khaki. The long-running conflicts with Native Americans and Mormons, not to mention inevitable cross-border skirmishing, would probably lead to a soldier with an appearance much different than the “peacock militia” on the East Coast, where uniform articles would be chosen for style, not comfort or battlefield utility. I assume Confederate association with filibusters and the occupation of Cuba would result in their use of cork helmets for service in tropical climes.
Given the border problems, expect dragoons and mounted rifles to slide back out from under the thumb of a generalized cavalry corps. That brings back orange and dark-green braid, along with an opportunity for some gorgeous parade uniforms.
Think about the impact on the Great Lakes if the United States and Canada were to remain at odds well past the Civil War. Rather than cooperate, each nation would probably have build its own set of canals. As during the War of 1812, expect a naval race, along with enthusiasm for the kinds of coastal battleships popular in Scandinavia for Baltic service during the Interwar Period. Just to stake out the differences, the Union would probably retain blue and white as their service colors, while the Confederates replace white with blue-gray.
The Confederacy would probably opt for a cruiser-heavy order of battle, leaving construction of battlewagons to the British and French. The purpose of this fleet would be to conduct commerce raiding. As during the Civil War, I do see the South leaning heavily on new invention, including submarines, aeroplanes, airships, and aircraft carriers.
On the issue of Independent US units, I would imagine that would only hold until the Second Mexican War in the 1880's, whereafter the USA heavily adopted the Prussian military model as a standard for its forces. This means HEAVY centralization of command and equipment, and a retraction in specialized uniforms and unit configurations as to stick to the ideals of the "central plan" for future wars as had been so successful for the Prussians. A strong central army as we see in the books is the result.
It's generally accepted that the American Helmet is essentially the M1915 German Stahlhelm. the Zuckermann would be too close in profile to the Brody for it to be practical, as it would inevitably lead to friendly-fire incidents.
the CSA's Submarines are the most-mentioned CS Naval units in the books. however, it's the USA that goes for Carriers and Naval aviation with the USS Remembrance.
A French Arsenal VB-10 fighter from the Escasrille GC. II/7, France March of 1944. In the late 1930s as part of the French Air Force's rearmament plans, the Arsenal company would develop a new design which was to be a high performance fighter that was to have a Hispano Suiza engine. In early 1940, the French Air Force would order 2 prototypes of the design from the firm which they intend to replace Moraine Saulnier MS 406 fighter. The aircraft first took flight on April 2nd, 1941 and proved highly satisfactory and the air force would place an order for 500 machines and expected it to enter service by the start of the summer of 1942. Unfortunately due the meddling from the French King himself demanding that the fighter have more features, the first machines would not be delivered to the French Air Force until the middle of February of 1944. By that time, the Radius forces on the Western Front was losing control over the skies to the German Luftwaffe. Despite these factors as well as the fuel shortages and the shortage of qualified pilots, the VB-10 proved to be a devastating aircraft in the hands of capable pilots against the inferior but numerous Focke Wulf, Junkers, and Fokker fighters. A grand total of 873 airframes would be built, and of these, only around 91 of them ever saw frontline service, which proved that no matter the potency, they were too little too late to regain the skies from the Germans.
The Hughes "Hound Dog" fighter, besides its service with the CSAF, would also serve with flying corps around the globe, both in service to the CSA's Allied states and post-war, the latter being a swift means of dispersing the former CSA's war-making ability to better prevent the arming of a renewed insurrection.
During the War, the British, French, and Russians would build liscensed copies of the machine to help bulk up their respective air forces, and many of these would subsequently join CSA expatriate machines post-war, spread across former colonies and burgeoning nations. Mexico and the reformed Republic of Texas would receive their planes directly from the CSA itself, the latter seizing CSAF bases in thier desperate bid to curtail the USA's invasion. Japan, meanwhile, purchased several machines for evaluation purposes.
During the USA's advance into the CSA, plenty of the aircraft would fall into the USA's hands, and indeed the USAC would operate several squadrons of the planes in security duties during the occupation of the former CSA, particularly in the campaigns against holdouts of the Freedom Party Guards.
Other States, such as Spain, Brazil and the newly independent Egypt and South Africa, purchased whole squadrons of the fighters at "fire sale" prices, and the Hound Dogs would equip their respective air forces for some time, those of South Africa often flown by former CSAF pilots who fled their disintegrating nation for the Apartheidist country.
It occurred to me that with a much stronger US Army and much larger defense industry ( along with hostile relations with the UK) Hiram Maxim never immigrates. Similarly I doubt that Hotchkiss would go French either.
I believe the USA is said to have Maxim guns in the beginning of the Great War books. and considering the US is Allied with Germany, they'd get MG's from them.
It's more an issue that a lot of the top MG designers in the late 19th and early 20th century were Americans who worked abroad because their wasn't any demand in the States. Furthermore most of them would be from the US in TL 191. So the Brits/French wouldn't have the design work of Hiram Maxim, Lewis, Hotchkiss and potentially John Browning. Browning is the odd man out since he was a Mormon in OTL and in TL 191 the hostility between the LDS church and the Federal Government never ended with the Mormons attempting an absurd number of revolts all of which failed. So if John Browning doesn't die in one of the revolts he might end up fleeing abroad to the CSA, France, or the UK.
In OTL from what I understand the main German MG of WW1 was basically a licensed copy of the Maxim Gun. With the US in TL having so many top notch MG designers and a much larger defense budget and defense industry it might be that Germany ends up copying or licensing US designs instead of the US copying German designs. If the MG 08 is the main German MG in TL then they've licensed an American Maxim gun instead of the British Maxim gun of OTL.
So the US Army might start the war with a decisive advantage in terms of machine guns being the only major power with a "light" machine gun in the form of the Lewis gun.
I'm not a fan of how much Turtledove had the US just copying German designs in WW1 instead of developing it's own. The whole "US develops absolutely no aircraft of it's own and just produces German designs during the FGW" Turtledove had was just dumb. It made sense for the US to copy and buy British/French aircraft in OTL because it had virtually no airforce pre war and had to massively expand it's force incredibly rapidly. Here the US has a much much larger military pre war and much much larger defense industries. The US would undoubtedly cooperate with it's German ally and license produce some engines/aircraft or otherwise use German R&D but would also have it's own R&D efforts.