Miscellaneous >1900 (Alternate) History Thread
- Thread starter RMcD94
- Start date
Yes they rejected him, as did the Bavarians in early 1914. In my premise he is declined in Bavaria for a second time but a wealthy German who was nearby gives him some money to take a train to Linz and on the way he eats a steady diet for a few weeks. By the time he enlists he is somewhat healthier.
And by this point A-H has lost a lot of people against Russia so their standards have lowered some.
Here is what I have written so far.
The Austrian Führer
For the Fatherland Tanner L. Patton Book One of the Austrian Führer Prelude “A plague has been loosed upon the continent and it comes in the form of a failed Austrian artist.” -George Lloyd, Head of the House of Lords, 1939 “The Germans were an ever-present threat, especially af...
docs.google.com
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I have this stupid idea bouncing around in my head, and am too lazy to do the research of width and depth to ascertain it's viability, so...
Let's say that we have Stalin - or some ISOT pretending to be Stalin - having a bit of a different calculus about Nazi Germany, to the tune of deciding to go to war with it in 1940, while they're still busy with Entente.
So, there are two overland targets - either going for Romania (And it's a bit of a distance to Germany), or for Poland (And there we have a problem of underdeveloped infrastructure and different gauges), and both wouldn't allow Soviets to get to Germany faster than Entente would.
Of course, there's a value in going for Romania anyway, to the tune of "OIL!". But pure land approach in Poland would be rather slow.
However, with Poland we have a possibility of using marine shipping, as there's a stretch of Baltic coast along with significant ports, that could be used to support soviet armies... Once Kriegsmarine is dealt with.
However, Kriegsmarine is a shadow of it's predecessor, and most of it would be engaging Entente fleets in any case - after proper preparations, Baltic fleet might be able to establish naval superiority in Baltics for some time if not indifinitely...
But then, why go for Polish ports, if you can go for German ones?
Thus, a plan that consists of Baltic fleet moving out of Leningrad to Pearl Harbor elements of Kriegsmarine present in the Baltics, to mine the Danish Straits and to escort ships full of troops to german shores, to be executed simultaneously with declaration of war, assault on Romania and engagements along the border in Poland.
Of course, you have to conceal preparations for such a move... Like, say, bungle the war with Finland even more in the eyes of the world and prolong it through the spring of 1940, while using it to build up necessary forces around Leningrad.
So, disregarding politics, would such a plan be possible to execute for the soviets, and why (not)?
Let's say that we have Stalin - or some ISOT pretending to be Stalin - having a bit of a different calculus about Nazi Germany, to the tune of deciding to go to war with it in 1940, while they're still busy with Entente.
So, there are two overland targets - either going for Romania (And it's a bit of a distance to Germany), or for Poland (And there we have a problem of underdeveloped infrastructure and different gauges), and both wouldn't allow Soviets to get to Germany faster than Entente would.
Of course, there's a value in going for Romania anyway, to the tune of "OIL!". But pure land approach in Poland would be rather slow.
However, with Poland we have a possibility of using marine shipping, as there's a stretch of Baltic coast along with significant ports, that could be used to support soviet armies... Once Kriegsmarine is dealt with.
However, Kriegsmarine is a shadow of it's predecessor, and most of it would be engaging Entente fleets in any case - after proper preparations, Baltic fleet might be able to establish naval superiority in Baltics for some time if not indifinitely...
But then, why go for Polish ports, if you can go for German ones?
Thus, a plan that consists of Baltic fleet moving out of Leningrad to Pearl Harbor elements of Kriegsmarine present in the Baltics, to mine the Danish Straits and to escort ships full of troops to german shores, to be executed simultaneously with declaration of war, assault on Romania and engagements along the border in Poland.
Of course, you have to conceal preparations for such a move... Like, say, bungle the war with Finland even more in the eyes of the world and prolong it through the spring of 1940, while using it to build up necessary forces around Leningrad.
So, disregarding politics, would such a plan be possible to execute for the soviets, and why (not)?
It's target practice for the Luftwaffe since the Soviets have no way to provide air support for that force. The rest gets picked off by mines and U-Boats as do any resupply/evacuations.
I don't even think it's a viable operation if ASB gave the Soviets their 1990 Navy and accompanying aircraft/helicopters although that might be enough to convince some of the people in charge to go ahead with it.
I don't even think it's a viable operation if ASB gave the Soviets their 1990 Navy and accompanying aircraft/helicopters although that might be enough to convince some of the people in charge to go ahead with it.
Geologic events typically go in the asb area, so you might want to check there.
Ah ok thank! Only find thread that discuss what if it happen rather than story, but I will try to look some more.
Grey Wolf
Donor
Well. you can't Pearl Harbour the German Navy as the Russians don't have any carriers and I doubt 1940 bombers have the ability to get to Kiel (perhaps they do if they don't want to come home?). This plan seems more like the Russo-Japanese War where the Russians are trying to play the role of the Japanese. But in the era of aircraft and submarines, not to mention mines that are better than in 1904, can a Soviet taskforce get OFF the German ports without being sunk? The easiest challenge would be Danzig (I don't suppose there would be much worth sinking at Memel or Elbing) but even this seems quite a stretch but at least achievable, with luck.
Are you planning amphibious assaults on Kolberg, Rostock etc? I'm not sure what the Russians have capable of such things, but I guess in sense you could do it by getting near and transferring to lighter craft a la Dardanelles landings. But the Luftwaffe is going to kind of notice this...
McPherson
Banned
No.
The Pe2 does not have the range or the load capacity to operate far enough forward and the Russian Baltic fleet is not professional enough nor does it have the necessary tools to reach German naval bases that far west.
The trouble with European continentals is that they are clueless about MAHAN.
Think LIKE A SEASPOWER.
See Alard? Mine and patrol with submarines the waters south of it. The geographic feature in naval warfare is called a trade-lane CHOKEPOINT. To keep it open, the German KM has to come to the Russians and fight there. THAT is within Soviet airpower reach. And if the Russians, had they so chosen, to double-cross the Berlin Maniac while the disastrous Wally Norway campaign was in progress, could have tried that stunt. I estimate their chances of success at cutting off Swedish Iron Ore to Germany at less than 15%, but if Stalin or his ersatz wants to do something naval that "might" tip the Balance in Norway, it is his best move to start a submarine war in the Baltic while he has Talinin and the Gulf of Riga in his hands in 1940. Later the Germans will choke him off with minefields and their airpower and land armies (1941).
Source: https://quietwarriors.files.wordpress.com
There is a downside. Sweden will not be neutral anymore. That alone is why I think the whole idea of any Stalin double-cross is cloud cuckoo land as a political and military gamble. Naval Geography is one thing. Military competence is something else. Soviet Russia in 1940 is not too good as to competence. At sea in 1940, they are amateurs. They will get better but even in 1945, at sea, they are not too good at the sea-power thing.
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Wolf of Badenoch
Donor
Interesting to speculate how German failure is then seen in London - would Chamberlain still resign? If not, while Churchill would take credit for RN successes, would the heavy losses suggested impact on any future possibility of his becoming PM? Or would Halifax snatch victory?
Are there any TLs about postwar US culture/economy if the great suburbanization of America, through the GI bill and Interstate Act, were somehow averted or derailed?
I'd also be interested in PODs that could extend the period of streetcar suburb development, and in general see more passenger rail and land development centered around transit.
I'd also be interested in PODs that could extend the period of streetcar suburb development, and in general see more passenger rail and land development centered around transit.
Driftless
Donor
Any good readable sources covering Elihu Root's attempts at reforming the US Army's command structure in the early 1900's? As I understand it, he attempted to combine aspects of then current corporate management models and the Prussian Army command structure, with the idea of bringing the US Army into the 20th Century. I know he set the ground work for the Chief of Staff, improved officer training and such, but ran into problems trying to corral the semi-autonomous fiefdoms of the Army's Bureaus. What I've found so far is pretty scant on detail
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McPherson
Banned
Not really. For a man as important to the American army as Mahan was to the American navy, he published very little on what he did to reform the disaster that was the American army of the Spanish American war. What he did write
Books by Elihu Root (Author of Experiments in Government and the Essentials of the Constitution)
Elihu Root has 377 books on Goodreads with 173 ratings. Elihu Root’s most popular book is Experiments in Government and the Essentials of the Constitution.
www.goodreads.com
is more about government reform in general and about foreign relations.
For work about Root's army reforms...
Driftless
Donor
Thanks! In your Goodreads link, I found a possible lead: The Military and Colonial Policy of the United States: Addresses and Reports. The further link in Google Books give a table of contents, which points to some useful short works by Root.
Driftless
Donor
^^^^ Further working your Goodreads link on Elihu Root's published works, I found this item: "Establishment of a General Staff Corps in the Army". Most of the content is Senate testimony (including much Senatorial question and comment).
There does seem to be a sense of a big missed opportunity with Root's reforms only being initiated before cabinet changes had Root replaced as Sec of War by Wm. Taft, who seems to have shifted the process into neutral for several years. Henry Stimson picked up the process as Secr. of War, but that was in 1911. There was a lot of stodgy 19th Century constabulary force thinking by the Army brass for too long in that turn-of-the-century time frame. Too much resistance to new ideas and technology and whatever advancements were made, often came after much bureaucratic weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth....
There does seem to be a sense of a big missed opportunity with Root's reforms only being initiated before cabinet changes had Root replaced as Sec of War by Wm. Taft, who seems to have shifted the process into neutral for several years. Henry Stimson picked up the process as Secr. of War, but that was in 1911. There was a lot of stodgy 19th Century constabulary force thinking by the Army brass for too long in that turn-of-the-century time frame. Too much resistance to new ideas and technology and whatever advancements were made, often came after much bureaucratic weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth....