Hapsburg Victory in the war of Spanish Succession, how long does the personal union last

[walmart]

Say the Hapsburgs maintain to install Charles VI as King of Spain in the war of Spanish Succession. How long would a personal union between Spain and Austria last.

How would a Spanish-Austrian personal union affect the war of Austrian succession

What would be the impact on the European alliance system

 

[Alex Zetsu]

Actually Augustus III (husband of Charles VI's niece) might end up getting Austria and Maria Theresa Spain. Charles VI only became obsessed with Pragmatic Sanction/ Succession after the loss in the Spanish Succession.

 

[Cornelis]

If Austria gains the main prize in the SSW, France would receive a compensation. It would guide its foreign policy for the century to come. A French-British alliance is not excluded.

 

[AltoRegnant]

If Austria gains the main prize in the SSW, France would receive a compensation. It would guide its foreign policy for the century to come. A French-British alliance is not excluded.

European or colonial compensation? Because the strength of such an alliance would be determined by how much of a threat france posed to london

 

[Comte de Geneve]

What is the POD, after Joseph's death, that overcomes the same total reluctance of Charles' allies to a Habsburg personal union as they had to a Bourbon personal union. No one wanted to see Charles V/I redux, any more than they wanted to see a Franco-Spanish union.

 

[walmart]

What is the POD, after Joseph's death, that overcomes the same total reluctance of Charles' allies to a Habsburg personal union as they had to a Bourbon personal union. No one wanted to see Charles V/I redux, any more than they wanted to see a Franco-Spanish union.

I was thinking that the war is over by At least 1710 with Charles VI installed as king of Spain with Joseph still dying the following year.

 

[Comte de Geneve]

Even with an allied victory in 1710 there will still be a conference to concoct a settlement to end the conflict. I still believe that the concert of power will insist on a renunciation of the Austrian titles by Charles III and an alternate succession for the Austrian lands in the event that what happened in OTL happens in this TTL.

 

[walmart]

I still believe that the concert of power will insist on a renunciation of the Austrian titles by Charles III and an alternate succession for the Austrian lands in the event that what happened in OTL happens in this TTL.

Would it be possible for Charles III to reject a renunciation of the Austrian titles ?

 

[pompejus]

What would be the impact on the European alliance system

Since Austro-Spain would be the strongest land power in Europe, I think it is likely that France, England and the Netherlands put their differences besides and form a (rather uneasy) alliance.

 

[Comte de Geneve]

Of course Charles III would need to renounce his succession rights to 'Austrian' titles as part of the peace settlement granting him the Spanish throne, exactly as Felipe V had to renounce his rights to the French throne in OTL. Of course there still would remain the negotiations among all parties as to what territories would comprise Spain and 'Austria' as well as any possible compensation to other powers. In this era there are no diktats to settle great power wars. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

 

[unprincipled peter]

Of course Charles III would need to renounce his succession rights to 'Austrian' titles as part of the peace settlement granting him the Spanish throne, exactly as Felipe V had to renounce his rights to the French throne in OTL. Of course there still would remain the negotiations among all parties as to what territories would comprise Spain and 'Austria' as well as any possible compensation to other powers. In this era there are no diktats to settle great power wars. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

Once the war started, it's going to take a crushing victory to remove France from the war. This basically happened in 1709ish. A great famine, no money, military losses all combined to cause Louis XIV to beg for peace. He was willing to give up everything: his proposal to give Spanish Netherlands to Maximilian Emanuel for losses in Bavaria was shot down, he was willing to abandon Philip. Britain insisted (stupidly) on France assisting in removing Philip. Louis felt France had nothing left for such an effort, and found the notion appallingly unacceptable. Then Britain started angling for itself at the expense of its allies, and France found a second wind to fight on, Philip proved capable of holding Spain without help, and Joseph died, leaving Philip as more desirable than Spain and Austria under one King. OK, enough of a preamble.

If France is crushed early, before Philip is firmly rooted in Spain or Austria in Italy, we might see some Italian Kingdoms going to Philip. Britain doesn't want the Habsburgs left with everything. By 1709, though, Philip needs to be forcefully removed, and Austria has control of Italy, meaning they have to be forcefully removed (Austria wanted it all). The only scenario I see of Philip/France getting anything in compensation is IF France turns on Philip in return for his gaining a Kingdom in Italy AND Austria can be convinced to give up Italy. Hard to envision either one happening, let alone both.

Once the war started, dividing up the empire and giving a piece of the pie to Bourbon was increasingly reduced. Savoy might wrangle a bigger piece, though.

 

[unprincipled peter]

In a scenario where Charles gains Spain, he likely has to either renounce rights to Austria, or agree to give up Spain in favor of Austria if Joseph leaves no male heirs.

IF Charles tries keeping both upon Joseph's death, we see the War of Spanish Succession II. Spain likely has no interest in a union ruled from Vienna, so there'll be no backing for Charles in Spain. Britain doesn't want a union, and will back an alternate candidate. IF Charles doesn't have any offspring, it's either a Bourbon, or someone from Savoy. With males in the picture, I doubt daughters of Joseph get backing for the Spanish throne.

Bottom line is that an Austrian/Spanish Union will only be in the imagination of Charles, but will never be allowed to come to fruition.