Ruled Britannia Aftermath

[Joshua Ben Ari]

Ruled Britannia is probably one of my favorite alternate history books (and probably the only Turtledove book I actually like). My question is - what happens after England is freed from the Spanish?

I mean, Catholics are either likely killed outright - like the Archbishop of Canterbury was in the book - or they're being forced to flee for safety in Ireland, Spain, or other Catholic countries. Which then leads to - what happens to Ireland? Irish Catholics were hated in the book for helping the Spanish hold down England.

Does James VI become the King of England, or is it someone else? Do they go for someone descended for the descendants of Mary Tudor?

What does France do with a Spanish England above them? And how do they handle England's independence?

 

[nepcotevalley]

A very bleak and brutal time lies ahead for the long suffering people of Ireland. The English will be looking for payback. The Irish will make the perfect scapegoats for the vengeful English. God knows their treatment of the Irish was horrible enough in OTL . Lord have mercy on the Irish for the English will show them no pity whatsoever in this world .

 

[Joshua Ben Ari]

A very bleak and brutal time lies ahead for the long suffering people of Ireland. The English will be looking for payback. The Irish will make the perfect scapegoats for the vengeful English. God knows their treatment of the Irish was horrible enough in OTL . Lord have mercy on the Irish for the English will show them no pity whatsoever in this world .

I was talking about it in my test thread. I fully expect the English to either a) forcibly assimilate the Irish into a kind of "West Briton" and go full Anglicization or b) go even worse than OTL's treatment of Ireland. Catholicism in England (and Scotland too) is going to either die out from forced expulsion/persecution or be pushed so far underground that it won't dare come back up for a few centuries.

 

[Michael B]

Does James VI become the King of England, or is it someone else? Do they go for someone descended for the descendants of Mary Tudor?

It is still going to be James VI because Spanish conquest or no Spanish conquest he is in the line of succession. Also he was prepared to switch to Protestantism.

Of course if he did not switch that would be another PoD.

 

[Joshua Ben Ari]

It is still going to be James VI because Spanish conquest or no Spanish conquest he is in the line of succession. Also he was prepared to switch to Protestantism.

Of course if he did not switch that would be another PoD.

Would the Stanleys (Earl of Derby or Anne Stanley) have any positioning for the throne? Or is James VI the only choice Elizabeth is going to make?

 

[Polish Eagle]

It is still going to be James VI because Spanish conquest or no Spanish conquest he is in the line of succession. Also he was prepared to switch to Protestantism.

Of course if he did not switch that would be another PoD.

Scotland is still Protestant in the book (the Spanish send a lot of troops to garrison the border).

I’m curious about Ireland—the fact that Irish troops make up a big part of the Spanish occupation force in England implies that the Spaniards very firmly planted a Catholic aristocracy in place. Maybe Isabella and her husband (was it Albert?) relocate to an effectively independent Ireland and maintain a pretense of claiming England (like the Polish Vasas)? England will have enough problems domestically that invading Ireland may have to wait. Maybe the settling of scores will become an English theater of the 30 Years’ War—Spanish-backed Ireland against French-backed England.

English Protestantism will be more radical and puritanical ITTL—no High Church Anglicanism.

More tolerance for nonconformists has consequences for America—no Puritan migration to Massachusetts, perhaps.

Lope de Vega might join the priesthood sooner—given how badly his last romantic encounter blew up in his face, he might take his vow of celibacy more seriously. Perhaps he’ll become one of those undercover priests ministering in England to the surviving Catholics (or not—maybe he’ll be too recognizable).

 

[Joshua Ben Ari]

I’m curious about Ireland—the fact that Irish troops make up a big part of the Spanish occupation force in England implies that the Spaniards very firmly planted a Catholic aristocracy in place. Maybe Isabella and her husband (was it Albert?) relocate to an effectively independent Ireland and maintain a pretense of claiming England (like the Polish Vasas)? England will have enough problems domestically that invading Ireland may have to wait. Maybe the settling of scores will become an English theater of the 30 Years’ War—Spanish-backed Ireland against French-backed England.

Albert VII, Archduke of Austria - right in one. The book leaves it up in the air but it implies that Isabella, Albert, and the rest of the Spanish court in England return to Spain (they were said to leave in the dead of night out of London). The book has the English are drawing up plans to invade Ireland so it does lean towards the Isabelline court returning to Spain rather than carrying on and settling in Ireland. The map on the Turtledove wiki also implies that Ireland is part of the Hapsburg empire which would explain why there are so many Irish troops in England.

English Protestantism will be more radical and puritanical ITTL—no High Church Anglicanism.

More tolerance for nonconformists has consequences for America—no Puritan migration to Massachusetts, perhaps.

Would there still be English colonization in America?

Lope de Vega might join the priesthood sooner—given how badly his last romantic encounter blew up in his face, he might take his vow of celibacy more seriously. Perhaps he’ll become one of those undercover priests ministering in England to the surviving Catholics (or not—maybe he’ll be too recognizable).

He was given a royal parole from Elizabeth (at the behest of William Shakespeare) on condition he return to Spain and never return to England. I don't think he'll return to Old Blighty any time soon.

 

[Kingsman]

It is still going to be James VI because Spanish conquest or no Spanish conquest he is in the line of succession. Also he was prepared to switch to Protestantism.

Of course if he did not switch that would be another PoD.

I think there were a number of other possible candidates for the English throne. Elizabeth I failed to nominate one. Doubtless fearful power would immediately start to pass to them. There were alternatives but Elizabeth's spymaster was secretly in touch with James prior to her death and offered him the throne immediately she died stopping any 'steam' building up for any other candidate.

 

[Peppe]

One thing is certain, Catholicism in England is in route for annihilation, Queen Bess will probably go for the "best make sure they wont be a threat anymore" and do everything in her power to destroy Catholicism in the country (and probably become hardline protestant). Ireland is screwed, it will be either "conform and obey" or "don't do it and die" on the eyes of the English, so probably the plantations but worse.

 

[Joshua Ben Ari]

I think there were a number of other possible candidates for the English throne. Elizabeth I failed to nominate one. Doubtless fearful power would immediately start to pass to them. There were alternatives but Elizabeth's spymaster was secretly in touch with James prior to her death and offered him the throne immediately she died stopping any 'steam' building up for any other candidate.

There was the Stanleys (the Earl of Derby or, alternatively, Anne Stanley, the Countess of Castlehaven), I remember, but they were said to have Catholic sympathies prior to the Spanish invasion. So I doubt they'll ever be invited to the throne. Nor can I see any of the possible Catholic claimants being allowed to actually petition for the Throne. Hang on.

EDIT:

Possible successors to Elizabeth: James VI of Scotland, William Stanley, 6th Earl of Derby, Anne Stanley, Countess of Castlehaven, George Hastings, 4th Earl of Huntingdon, Henry Percy, 9th Earl of Northumberland & Edward Seymour, Lord Beauchamp

Looking at these, the only ones I can see possibly working out would be either James VI of Scotland (great-grandson of Margaret Tudor, related to Elizabeth, Protestant, and fought the Spanish on the English-Scottish border), Stanleys (who may or may not be Catholic but have ties to Henry VIII), or the Seymours (likely Edward) by virtue of their descent from Lady Jane Grey. The Hastings claim depends on Henry VII being illegitimate and the Northumberland claim is distantly related to both Henry III and Edward I. There are Catholic possibilities but I doubt they'd have a chance to claim the throne.