A Hippie in the House of Mouse (Jim Henson at Disney, 1980)
- Thread starter Geekhis Khan
- Start date
- Status
Of SF writers I am quite the Phillip K Dick fan. I would love to see Disney/Henson adapt any of his amazing tales. A Scanner Darkly animated in the late 80's by Disney 
. But as I have stated in another thread I would absolutely love to see Henson tackle Sci Fi with puppets and animatronics. Anything Phillip K Dick or the more family oriented Edgar Rice Burroughs Princess of Mars.
. But as I have stated in another thread I would absolutely love to see Henson tackle Sci Fi with puppets and animatronics. Anything Phillip K Dick or the more family oriented Edgar Rice Burroughs Princess of Mars.I wouldn't mind Neuromancer as the Western riposte to Akira and its animation.
Of SF writers I am quite the Phillip K Dick fan. I would love to see Disney/Henson adapt any of his amazing tales. A Scanner Darkly animated in the late 80's by Disney
Maybe Farscape in the Late Eighties-Early Nineties on ABC or the Disney Channel Friday or Saturday nights to go up against Star Trek: The Next Generation and Babylon 5?
I think an adaptation of the classic Barsoom/John Carter of Mars series might have been in the cards back when Disney was making period movies like Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea. By the Eighties I question the amount of recognition the series would still have, but then again Conan The Barbarian came out in 1982, so John Carter of Mars might gain traction as a counterpoint since, other than location, it's effectively a fantasy series.
What I expect to see from an Eighties Disney SciFi production is what we got: Flight of the Navigator. Disney tried the Space Opera route with The Black Hole to less than thrilling results, despite some spectacular concepts, so I can see them moving away from that genre of SciFi and towards ground trod by Close Encounters of the Third Kind (which has the bonus of being cheaper). Assuming Henson is still Creative Director at Disney, over and above his work with his own studio, Navigator might be more ambitious, with protagonist David actually seeing one or more of the alien worlds Max the robot spaceship was collecting samples from. They might also cast someone other than Paul Reubens as Max.
Now, if The Black Cauldron spends less time in development hell there's room in the decade for another animated film between Cauldron and The Great Mouse Detective. A SciFi animated movie could be ambitious in a way that harkens back to how Disney used animation to vibrantly illustrate Wernher von Braun's ideas for space travel in the 1950's. A surprisingly grounded space adventure involving planetary exploration or an encounter with a mysterious alien probe, with animation allowing for depictions of microgravity operations, space habitats, or truly alien life, would really stand out from other entries in the genre.
Then again, if Brad Bird's opinion of Disney management improves, we might get The Iron Giant a decade early.
As you noted, debating interpretations of Tolkien is really a diversion from this thread.
The relevance is, Disney and Henson each have their own world views, which are both rather optimistic. Tolkien is more of a conservative than either, but actually, at least the way I read Tolkien, his approach to morality and justice actually could resonate very strongly with both the classic Walt Disney and Jim Henson's Beatnik optimism. Both American artistes could actually look pretty deep darkness right in the eye without flinching or painting it over--consider how terrifying aspects of Snow White, Pinocchio or Bambi were.
(An aside of sorts--my 4 year old niece just dug up a Disney marketed book of little stories about cute pets for Disney princesses. The first one, about a doggie for Cinderella (all of these "stories" are after "they lived happily ever after" and meant to be part of it) gave me a terrible saccharine burn reading it to my niece--the "story" had no darkness to it, no moral content, and in fact I was nauseated by the frank greed and shallowness of what I came to revile as "The Preppy Little Puppy." Fortunately for my sanity and ability to keep my niece happy, the other stories had pups and kittens and bunnies and a panda who all had a bit more pizzazz, and just a bit of usefulness, or anyway some redeeming features or frank gluttony in one case. I was yearning for a troll or ogre or ravening wolf or something, especially in that first so-called "story" of vapid shallowness. I can quite see why Tolkien would cringe at the mere notion of Disney getting anywhere near his hobbits, let alone the Great Matter of the Silmarils).
Ah, my first shoot from the hip response was that Dick is diametrically opposite the Disney world view, though perhaps Henson could work with it. But actually PKD was quite the moralist too, in his own way, and had some surprisingly conservative views too on some subjects anyway.
I'd say though that overall, with varying degrees of fidelity, Dick has been fairly well served by Hollywood OTL. There are aspects of Blade Runner some critics thought Dick would violently object to, but the way A Scanner Darkly was handled seems deeply faithful to the book I remember reading. There have been lots of movies, mostly quite popular, that more or less managed to get at least some of Dick's sensibilities across. Dick to me is on the spectrum of SF writers that literature critics and English teachers like--to my mind, the most egregiously overpraised by this faction generally tone deaf to what makes Science Fiction science fiction is Ray Bradbury, but that could also be a generational thing, one doesn't hear him praised so much nowadays. Dick I think lived in his own world, which fortunately for SF was also a very SF world, on his own terms--I'm trying to say I don't think of Ray Bradbury as much of a science fiction writer but I sure do think PKD was one. Mind I have been rather hit and miss in my appreciation of his books and stories--some I have devoured and love passionately, others I have struggled through and often given up on. I'm never quite sure if I actually got the end of The Man In the High Castle or not--which is especially frustrating as I deeply bought into about 95 percent of it, it moved brilliantly and compellingly....then I am not actually sure what actually happens at the end of it (beyond Mr Tagomi giving the Nazis a categorical "no" on turning over yet more Jews to the Gestapo). But you know, there are other authors some of whose books I love fiercely, like say CJ Cherryh, who write other books I just can't make head or tail of.
Anyway I think for whatever reason, maybe that his kind of beatnikism ("flipped out hippie," he called himself in praising Robert Heinlein's personal generosity to him on one occasion) overlaps the general kind of arty mentality that works in Hollywood, so these artistes are by happy accident on a similar wavelength, I think Hollywood on the whole has worked well with his oeuvre. Perhaps he was merely prophetic of a general mood and mentality that would resonate with the post-1980 world in general.
Meanwhile I don't think Disney can touch A Scanner Darkly, not and remain distinctly Disney. But I do think the people who did handle it OTL did it particularly well, at least from the point of view of faithfully capturing Dick's style and intent--his daughter in the audio commentary thought so too.
Fortunately I don't think this is zero sum; if Disney can build up a platform for somewhat more, shall we say, conventional, SF mentality (Heinlein for instance) it might just increase the scope for the more outre aspects of SF that Disney cannot touch, even via Henson bridging it for them a bit, with other producers. I don't think it would suck any oxygen away from the OTL successes of Dick adaptions, and might open the way for even weirder stuff.
Let's not forget that Tolkien was supposedly not a fan of Disney, so if LOTR reaches the silver screen ITTL, it'll probably be made elsewhere.
OK, so here's another thing to consider. Come 1983 when the Disney Channel comes about ITTL, if it comes about at all, I'm not sure if Jim is gonna want it to be a premium service. I have a feeling he's going to call for it to be a Basic cable deal. Also, I think that Disney's whole Anti-VHS stance is most likely gonna get called into question, meaning that the whole ''Disney Vault'' stereotype will never come to be.
marathag
Banned
Now I will bring up what Walt did to the various stories that Jacob and and Wilhelm Grimm collected, and why Tolkien felt that way.
But by time of this story, both have been dead for around10 years, and it's a new time in Hollywood
Oh, and I''m sure Tolkien would not have liked Jackson's changes, either
Last edited:
To add my own two cents to the discussion, I feel as if the LOTR franchise would be better off either in the hands of Bluth, MGM and Nelvana or the people behind Heavy Metal. That would be the only way to make this sort of thing work as an animated movie. Even with Jim on board, Disney just couldn't do it justice.
Fascinating discussions, all. Forgive me that I don't have the time to address them all. All very good stuff. Well, except for the Tolkien Eagles tangent. Besides, we all know the real reason is Surface to Air Missiles .
Miramax did come to Eisner with LotR, though a lot of butterflies will fly between "now" and then, so what happens to LotR will be different, most likely.
Phillip K. Dick is always an interesting question.
The Bad Merch is something that Henson was actually very good about avoiding IOTL. He was almost OCD when it came to quality control in 3rd-party merch for Sesame Street and the Muppets.
Stay tuned to find out what you guessed right and what not.
.Miramax did come to Eisner with LotR, though a lot of butterflies will fly between "now" and then, so what happens to LotR will be different, most likely.
Phillip K. Dick is always an interesting question.
The Bad Merch is something that Henson was actually very good about avoiding IOTL. He was almost OCD when it came to quality control in 3rd-party merch for Sesame Street and the Muppets.
Stay tuned to find out what you guessed right and what not.
Yeah that flamming eye...we all know the real reason is Surface to Air Missiles
With Tim Burton at Disney. Maybe he doesn't direct Batman 89. Maybe Sam Rami gets the job instead?
When Doctor Who gets cancelled and the property is being shopped around in the mid 90s. I could see a Hensen owned Disney possibly making a bid. Hensen was in the UK for a good few years and may be familiar with the property. I could see a who film being a big tent pole adventure film in the 90s.
When Doctor Who gets cancelled and the property is being shopped around in the mid 90s. I could see a Hensen owned Disney possibly making a bid. Hensen was in the UK for a good few years and may be familiar with the property. I could see a who film being a big tent pole adventure film in the 90s.
That would mean the modern superhero film never comes to exist, thus later down the road Jim Henson never gets to make an MCU film. The horror.
I highly doubt that a good Batman or superhero film is not bound to happen. Maybe we could get a Ridley or Tony Scott Batman in the early 90's. Oh my maybe a John Carpenter Batman with Kurt Russell. As much as I love Burton's Batman I know there is potential out there for another excellent alternate version.
marathag
Banned
Would Watch. Nothing quite like a big budget _Crimewave_ or_Darkman_,
Raimi is great at adding comedy without being parody or outright camp. his Batman would have some of the '66 show to it, and no Elfman score.
The movie is gonna happen regardless in 1989. Rami would make the best kind of Batman movie. Not too dark, but not too light. Besides, this frees up tom Burton to potentially help with the Animation and score for The Spirit movie. Johnny Depp as The Spirit anyone?
- Status