An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
What are the demographics of Greek-speaking peoples anyway? I figure everyone from Greece to Bulgaria must speak it as a first language by now, but how's that spread to Anatolia and other territories?
So i know western anatolia is extremely greek speaking, i think it gets a bit more Turkish/Kurdish/Armenian as you go east. Now the Levant is unfortunately being ethnically cleansed and is likely to be almost fully greek (in the coastal areas at least) after "The Great Crime" has finished
There's also quite a few people who speak Albanian in its respective region if I recall
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This ethnic cleansing is coming from Syria-palastinea to mosul-erbil right? Dunno how much the Georgians will ethnically cleanse the area but I guess it's more moderate than the Romans. But if they really want to hold a sizable chunk of some prosperous northern persian lands they gotta cleanse it thoroughly.
Oh, absolutely. It hurts to see it but it adds some genuineness I think a lot of TLs either ignore, justify, or glamorize. It's especially tragic on account of how tolerant the Empire used to be here.
There's nothing shameful on what Rome is doing. If anything this is just payback for the 6th century disaster. Besides the people their cleansing will never really accept Roman rule. Better to wipe them out than have them come back with a vengeful intent to retake their lands and killing the new settlers.
If you're gonna start a war you better finish it in the swiftest way as possible. There can be no peace with people who will always revolt. Thats why you gotta exterminate the problem while you still have the strength to do so. You don't want to be caught out in a moment of weakness..
After all we know from history just how devastating it can be..
Let's not blame a conquered people for being conquered or try to justify Roman atrocities.
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
Well I they don't hold Mosul-Erbil yet but the area is home to a lot of non-Arab populations that aren't considered problematic. Remember it's only the Arab Sunni populations they have an issue with, since this is what the second or third time they have played fifth colomn? So Sunni Kurds in Mosul or Alawite Arabs in Syria aren't considered an issue, especially since the Rhomans are paradoxically a more tolerant overlord than the previous or possible Sunni overlords.
Evilprodigy
Donor
IIRC B444 said the Albanians mostly went the way of Arvanites and are bilingual and much more assimilated into a 'Greek' identity.
Arvanites - Wikipedia
TTTL makes it easier for population groups to self-identify as Rhoman and assimilate quickly so this sort of cultural development is in Albania as well as southern Greece.
No.
There is no such thing as justified ethnic cleansing. Ever. Under any circumstances.
Are you suggesting that people who have been living there for generations deserve payback for a crisis that happened over 1000 years ago? Even if the disaster of the 6th century had happened last week, the civilians involved are never to blame for the actions of an autocratic state they happen to live in. Extending that to civilians somehow being acceptable targets of payback for actions taken by an autocratic state a millennium ago is ridiculous.
So there is no value in conciliatory politics? The inhabitants of this region are not single-minded zealots who live to make trouble for the good imperial regime in Constantinople. In fact, this region has a long history of ethnically, culturally, and religiously diverse empires (the Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates come to mind), and the Romans have ITTL historically offered conciliatory programs with great success (see: the conversion of the Anatolian Turks, Andreas's ending of the southern Italian revolt). In addition to the obvious evils of literal genocide, ethnic cleansing also goes a long way to:
- needlessly decimating your own tax-paying population and then being forced to bring in new settlers at imperial expense, incurring easily avoidable costs.
- making future conquests aware of your empire's genocidal tactics and thus making home-grown resistance far more likely
- putting other ethnic, cultural, and religious minorities on notice that ethnic purity is a goal for the imperial administration, making home rule more difficult
- creating massive ill-will towards your nation diplomatically and handing an easy casus belli to any enemy waiting in the wings.
I repeat: NO
There is no justification for ethnic cleansing. There is no situation where the conquered population is somehow at fault for desiring self-determination, nor is there any population that will always revolt when options for peaceful resolution are presented.
Honestly regardless of what long term political benefits you can get from ethnic cleansing it can never be justified. Earlier in this tl Rhome was able to coexist and even prosper with its muslim inhabitants. This is called the great crime for a reason innocent people are being robbed of their lives
Just a small nitpick though this time is undoubtedly ethnic cleansing and likely will reach the level of genocide once it’s all said and done the Roman actions in the Levant up to that point were not the “great crime” but were a series of actions referred to I think as “the sundering”.
Honestly Rhomania in this time period is going through a grim dark phase and I am horrified and intrigued on finding out what exactly Rome will do that qualifies as the “Great Crime”. A credit to @Basileus444 story telling and world building.
To me the great crime can’t be a series of actions or even an organized genocide over a period of years; I feel like it will be something done that is not realized right away as it happens behind the front lines of the war and is only discovered once the land is given back in a peace treaty.
Evilprodigy
Donor
It'd help if you let us know what the last thing you remembered from the TL was. With the threadmarks system you can easily go back and read more here. The TL is currently in a 'world interlude' of sorts after a big war for the Rhomans in the first half of the 1630s.
I have read this since the start of 2019 basically I’ve missed a whole year Of this story
that is correct I do not remember an event
edit: you know what nevermind I just reread the ent thread
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Evilprodigy
Donor
Here's reader mode that will only show you the threadmarks:
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
Previously on An Age of Miracles: Lots of Things The old thread was locked because of its length so here is the continuation thread. Starting off with responses to the last batch of posts. HanEmpire: It is the Negus; I’m using his title as shorthand. Iskandar is a top-tier general, probably...
www.alternatehistory.com
2019 starts partway through page 4, the post titled "1633: The Guns of Syria" so if you want to catch up there's your starting point. From there, it's mostly the Rhomans at war but for the past few months like I said we have been in an interlude where we go around the world and see what the rest of the globe has been doing.