Put a ten round box mag on the sporter version and you've got a standard service rifle in .303 by 1920. Might be a bit pricey though.
Army equipment that should have seen service
- Thread starter Bougnas
- Start date
The Germans should have gotten their hands on the blue prints for the 44M Tas. Germany needed a tank in the 30 ton range, and one that did have stupid interleaved wheels, and the Hungarians seem to have designed just that.
Deleted member 1487
Only problem was that was inspired by the Panther and was never production ready. Only two prototypes were ever made, long after the Panther was already in production and being improved.
44M Tas - Wikipedia
Besides they already have two 30 ton designs:
Achtung Panzer! - Prototypes !
www.achtungpanzer.com
VK 30.01 (P) - Wikipedia
Hitler decided though it needed more armor and a bigger gun, so they made the Panther instead, but had to keep a lot of the 30 ton components due to the limited time to design it.
Last edited by a moderator:
BlackDragon98
Banned
Panzer III/IV.
The ultimate tank that Germany should have built instead of the Panzer III and Panzer IV.
>leaf spring suspension
>20ton-range
>non-angled armour
I really fail to see how it would be in any way better than the Panzer IV.
BlackDragon98
Banned
Had 80mm of armor on the front glacis and 60mm on the bottom part where the transmission is housed.
Side armor was 40mm.
Same turret as Panzer IV.
It could have been a German T34 had they pulled out all the stops in 1941 and got it into production in 1943 instead of the over complicated and unreliable Panthers.
Ok, so it would have had sloped armour. Still has the Panzer IV's crappy suspension gimping it.
BlackDragon98
Banned
One of the designs had the Panzer III's torsion bar suspension instead.
Not much is know about the Panzer III/IV and there were many proposals.
Unfortunately it was designed in 1944, which was too late for the Germans.
Deleted member 1487
There was nothing wrong with the IV's suspension, it was just weight limited, because the design was for an 18 ton tank. You'd need new parts to get much above 23 tons.
Yes, it's suspension was fine for a 18 ton infantry support vehicle. On a 1944 design meant to be able to do all the roles of armour in contemporary mobile warfare (ie the Panzer III/IV) it's completely unacceptable.
Deleted member 1487
Which is why they were phasing in the Panther to replace it (the Pz IV), but production numbers weren't there yet. The Panther overall was a fine tank, it just needed time to evolve like the T-34 as well as access to the right materials to get it's components reliable. It just didn't have either by 1944.
Edit:
clarified my statement
Last edited by a moderator:
No the Panzer III/IV was a new 1944 design.
The Panther was already on the front, and had been for half a year, by the time the III/IV design was approved.
Deleted member 1487
Sorta, but not sure what that has to do with what you quoted from me.
Right, like I said in the quote: the production numbers weren't large enough to replace the Pz IV.
The III/IV was a napkinwaffe, it never left the paper it was drawn on. It was never approved, just proposed and a drawing created. Then it was cancelled.
What made you think I was talking about the Panzer IV rather than the III/IV?
I quite clearly stated:
"On a 1944 design meant to be able to do all the roles of armour in contemporary mobile warfare (ie the Panzer III/IV) it's completely unacceptable."
Yeah, and that's the design that me and @BlackDragon98 were discussing, during which I pointed out that it using the Panzer IV suspension would have been a big weakness (especially since the III/IV would presumably be even heavier than the late model Panzer IVs which were already overloaded).
Deleted member 1487
Because in 1944 the Germans were using the Pz IV for that. One regiment of Pz IVs and one of V's per panzer division.
The Pz III's suspension was rated even lower than the Pz IV. I think for the III/IV they were considering an interweaved suspension like the Panther.
I found pictures of transitionary test models of the Pz III with that in the Spielberger book on that tank, which fed into the Pz III/IV program. At that point though you might as well just go with the VK2401 MAN.
Yeah, but it's not a new 1944 design. What's excusable (good even) on a 1936 design that has been up armoured and up gunned to serve as an interim tank while the next generation is rolled out is not excusable on a new 1944 design.
I agree, I generally think the III/IV was a waste of napkins.
I'm sure that's one of the napkin designs. The wiki only ever mentions leaf springs though.
Deleted member 1487
K? It was used in that role though.
Yeah that's why I like to go to well regarded sources. Spielberger is about as good as you can get for the history of German tanks:
Panzer III & Its Variants (The Spielberger German Armor & Military Vehicles, Vol 3): Spielberger, Walter J.: 9780887404481: Amazon.com: Books
Panzer III & Its Variants (The Spielberger German Armor & Military Vehicles, Vol 3) [Spielberger, Walter J.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Panzer III & Its Variants (The Spielberger German Armor & Military Vehicles, Vol 3)
www.amazon.com
