Another America: A Map and Graphic Setting

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Keperry

Working on European history:
-no 1830 revolutions, Belgium stays part of the Netherlands and the Bourbon Restoration lasts until 1848 (the Orleanses are in the Americas)
-1848:
--the king of Prussia accepts the "crown from the gutter" and a constitutional monarchy German Empire is formed; instead of becoming a strong unified state it's torn by disputes over whether the power should rest with the elected parliament in Frankfurt or the Hohenzollern monarchy in Berlin (or the Habsburgs in Vienna who would really like to be in charge instead); this question will dominate European politics for the next century
--Hungary successfully wins independence with Russian support conditional on it becoming a normal monarchy (under a Habsburg? a Romanov? not sure) instead of a revolutionary republic
--France's revolution is more radical, Louis-Napoleon can't take over and the Second Republic lasts longer, but is unstable and never consolidates power
-with Garibaldi in the Americas, Italian unification stalls: the republican revolutionaries in Sicily are unwilling to join a monarchist Italy and eventually their orientation changes from Italian nationalist to building up local nationalism
-Austro-Prussian War and Franco-Prussian War similar to OTL; in the former Hungary seizes Galicia, as a result of the latter the French Republic falls and is replaced with a monarchy under the Count of Chambord followed by a dictatorship under Boulanger (or maybe Boulangerism-Bonapartism?), then yet another unstable republic
-With the Habsburg position in the Balkans much weaker, Bulgaria is able to keep most of its San Stefano borders, leaving a rump Ottoman territory in Europe as a buffer

Europe before *WW1:
Prewar.png


-*WW1 is to a large extent a German civil war over control of the Empire, ending with parliamentary-Habsburg victory over the Hohenzollerns and Germany being partitioned between a Frankfurt-based German Republic, an Austrian-led South German Confederation, and a rump Prussia, thus leaving the German Question fundamentally unresolved and setting the stage for the next war, with the SGC in particular as an unstable powderkeg due to its large non-German populations
-Other trouble spots: France (unhappy with its gains and low level of influence over the new German settlement, time for another nationalist dictatorship), Hungary (revanchism, time for a nationalist dictatorship), Croatia (under a personal union with South Germany and not happy about it, plus ethnic tension), the Balkans (ethnic tension but what did you expect; Greece is especially irredentist and angry at mega-Bulgaria), the borderlands of Russia (more ethnic tension), Spain (lost the Rif War, time to play the blame game)

Europe before *WW2 (or South Germany may potentially collapse before then, in which case Europe before that):
Interwar.png

(The situation in Russia And Friends is even more tentative than the rest of the map and should be taken skeptically)

The modern map of Europe will also be different but I'm still working it out.
 
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Nyvis

Nyvis

Keperry said:
-Austro-Prussian War and Franco-Prussian War similar to OTL; in the former Hungary seizes Galicia, as a result of the latter the French Republic falls and is replaced with a monarchy under the Count of Chambord followed by a dictatorship under Boulanger (or maybe Boulangerism-Bonapartism?), then yet another unstable republic
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No commune, I assume?
 

Keperry

Nyvis said:
No commune, I assume?
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There might still be, France's history is still a very vague sketch at this point. Alternatively a similar almost-revolution could have come from something like the 1917 army mutinies...

Ugly Idiot said:
Whats that state in the Grodno region? Is it some kind of Jewish state?
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Yes, I'm thinking that an ephemeral Yiddish-speaking Jewish state existed there between the two wars only to be overwhelmed and partitioned by its neighbors in the second war, whereupon the refugees would go to Israel or elsewhere in the diaspora.

Levi Fox said:
Is the earlier map of the German Confederation still up to date?
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No.
 

Keperry

Here's how Europe is looking currently:
Europe.png


(May also give the rest of Transylvania and Bukovina to Romania)
 
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Keperry

Vlad von Carstein said:
Interesting. So I wonder how Catalonia and the Basques became independent and Portugal has Galicia. (Also has the former absorbed Andorra?) Venice appears to be back and in control of the Straits.
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Spain joined the losing side in *WW2 and was punished for it; Venice is back (after Italian unification stalled in Sicily the Romance-speakers under Austrian rule started to identify nationally as Venetians rather than Italians and eventually rebelled for and won independence from Austria) but the Straits are an international zone, not Venetian.
 

Keperry

Iserlohn said:
Is that an international Pressburg/Bratislava I see?
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Yep, International City of Pressburg, plus Danzig, Fiume, Tangier, Moresnet/Amikejo, Geneva (not the whole thing, which is the capital of Romandy, just the international district where the League of Nations / UN equivalent and maybe EU equivalent is headquartered), and the Straits Zone with Constantinople, Gallipoli, and Salonika, though now I'm leaning toward making Salonika and Amikejo independent or semi-independent, give them some kind of International Protectorate along with Mount Athos and the Holy See (which is bigger than just the Vatican, maybe the whole west bank of the Tiber if not all of Rome).

kalinski said:
good lord it's independent east prussia
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*dramatic sting, thunder, maniacal laughter in the distance*

Yep, last remnant of imperial Prussia, lost *WW2, made into a Low German speaking republic to emphasize its definitely-not-the-German-Empire-ness. Hm I should probably give Memelland to Lithuania while I'm at it, huh...
 

Keperry

I've updated the world map with further border changes mostly based on punishing the losers of *WW2 (Integralist France, Integralist Brazil, Volkisch Prussia, Futurist Italy, Hungary) and rewarding the winners (like Narodnik Russia)*, along with getting rid of a few countries and dividing them between their neighbors (Jabal Shammar, Mysore, Oromia, Tailand, Kawthoolei, Tuva) for consolidation and decluttering purposes.

Here's Europe, as you can see Romania has been expanded into Transylvania and swallowed Bukovina, Sicily and MegaMonaco have been expanded at Italy's expense and gotten Sardinia and Corsica, Malta is Sicilian and Cyprus is Greek, Greece has expanded north at Bulgaria's expense (sorry, Salonika), Russia now has the Donbass and reaches to the Black Sea, and the former French exclave in Oran is now the bigger and independent Pied-Noir country of Orania:
Europe.png


*Yes, I have finally solved my Russian conundrum and decided that the Russian Revolution was won by the Socialist Revolutionary Party (or an SR-Menshevik coalition), running Russia under the Narodnik ("populist") ideology, more agrarian-focused and less centralized and authoritarian than the Bolsheviks. Russia's sphere of socialist republics definitely includes Finland, the Baltics, Prussia, Ukraine, Crimea, Kuban, North Caucasia, Georgia, Central Asia, Romania, and Bulgaria, and probably several more eastern and central European countries though I'm still working out which ones exactly (probably not Poland and Czechoslovakia, for one). '

Russia's sphere of influence forms a broadly socialist bloc together with left-wing-KMT China's sphere in Asia and the sphere of Bolivaria (formerly New Granada) in South America, including Quisqueya (united Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico), Grao Para (formerly part of Brazil, split off after WW2), and Santa Cruz; Florida was formerly a Bolivarian ally before switching to the liberal-capitalist North American bloc. The Socialist Americas face a number of trouble spots, with Santa Cruz occupied by neighboring Yucatan except for the Chetumal Strip, western Panama occupied by Central America with the canal itself placed under international administration against Bolivaria's vehement protests, and former member Acre having become a rogue state.
 
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Pantegral

Pantegral

-Why is TTL Britain "the UK of Great Britain and the Isles", instead of the OTL "and Northern Ireland"? What do "the Isles" refer to, actually - British Overseas Territories?

-Why did Saxony, Bavaria and Austria chose independence, instead of joining Germany after alt-WWII?

-How did East Prussia maintained its independence by the end of WWII, instead of just being absorbed by either Germany or Poland?

-Are there any movements for unification of German-speaking/Italian-speaking territories?
 
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Keperry

Pantegral said:
-Why is TTL Britain "the UK of Great Britain and the Isles", instead of the OTL "and Northern Ireland"? What do "the Isles" refer to, actually - British Overseas Territories?

-Why did Saxony, Bavaria and Austria chose independence, instead of joining Germany after alt-WWII?

-How did East Prussia maintained its independence by the end of WWII, instead of just being absorbed by either Germany or Poland?

-Are there any movements for unification of German-speaking/Italian-speaking territories?
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-Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands, which are all integral parts and constituent countries of the UK ITTL

-Allies didn't want *Germany to be too big, Saxony and Bavaria wanted to keep their monarchies, Austria is on the other side of Bavaria

-In a way it didn't, East Prussia is very much part of the Russian sphere of influence, if on a somewhat slightly looser leash than the Baltics but it's Russia's piece of the pie; beyond that as mentioned above the Allies didn't want to leave too much to either Germany or Poland (it's bad enough that Poland got all of Silesia, and giving it to Poland would be especially problematic since it still had an overwhelmingly ethnic German population and with Germans on both sides of this WW2 there would be no appetite for expelling them) and after Prussia's attempts to violently take over all of Germany were very open to promoting the idea that Prussian =/= German

-Not so much with the Italians since both Venetia and Sicily have been heavily promoting their own languages at the expense of Standard Italian so that they mostly have a separate linguistic and national identity from Italy proper; moreso with the Germans, especially those outside the German-speaking countries (in Silesia and Sudetenland) and in Saxony (trying to be bilingual with Sorbian, which stokes the German majority's resentment), while Bavaria and Prussia are also trying to elevate their local dialects to national languages to forge a distinct national identity

Dutchguy101 said:
Great timeline keep up the work
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Thanks!
 

Da Ghost

Is there a conflict between Albania, Serbia, Croatia and probably the rest of the Balkans? What caused the Vlachs and Ruthenians to split up from Albania/Hungary? How widespread is islamic fundamentalism, because I saw, that Najd exists in TTL. How is the car and electronic industry in TTL, which brands still exist like in OTL and which did not make it in TTL? Do hip-hop (or rap, for that matter) and modern pop music exist in this timeline, and if yes, then how did they develop and what artists exist in these two genres in TTL? And why does the flag of Sicily look so similar to that of Catalonia?

PS: I know, I know; Many questions, but I think, that this ATL just as good as Kanan's Our Fair Country in my opinion! Good work, keep it up 👍
 
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Keperry

Da Ghost said:
Is there a conflict between Albania, Serbia, Croatia and probably the rest of the Balkans? What caused the Vlachs and Ruthenians to split up from Albania/Hungary? How widespread is islamic fundamentalism, because I saw, that Najd exists in TTL. How is the car and electronic industry in TTL, which brands still exist like in OTL and which did not make it in TTL? Do hip-hop (or rap, for that matter) and modern pop music exist in this timeline, and if yes, then how did they develop and what artists exist in these two genres in TTL? And why does the flag of Sicily look so similar to that of Catalonia?

PS: I know, I know; Many questions, but I think, that this ATL just as good as Kanan's Our Fair Country in my opinion! Good work, keep it up 👍
Click to expand...

There was a lot of ethnic-national conflict between Albania, Serbia, and Croatia up until the end of the Second Great War, in which Serbia took most of Bosnia from Croatia but failed to take Kosovo from Albania; since then the borders between them have been stable apart from some grumbling and the conflict between them has been more on the basis of Croatia and Serbia being socialist republics while Albania is a socialist monarchy. One site of conflict is Danubia, which is a multiethnic multilingual German-Hungarian-Romanian-Serbian-Croatian confederation and as much of a mess as it sounds like; all the groups are supposed to be on equal standing but in practice the Germans dominate so the other groups are resentful and have a lot of irredentism.

Carpathian Ruthenia was a problem spot when partitioning Hungary after the Second Great War; it was detached from the rest of Ukraine by Poland but Poland neither wanted to annex it for fear of adding to a critical mass of Ukrainians in Ruthenia nor to give it independence as another base for Ukrainian nationalists, so it was left as the only remaining non-Magyar area of Hungary. The Rusyns themselves rebelled against this, both for nationalist regions and for anti-socialist reasons as Hungary was becoming socialist, and set up their own unrecognized state which was soon occupied by Poland itself, supposedly to protect them but in reality just as much to keep them from becoming a problem. The Vlachs were in a similar situation but with the ideologies reversed, after the Second Great War they mostly fell within Albania's borders and resented the prospect of Albanian domination, and the socialist countries (and Romania in particular) sponsored their uprising so as to have a leftist wedge between monarchist Albania and Greece.

The Saudis never expanded outside of Nejd and so never sponsored Wahhabism worldwide, so Islamic fundamentalism is much less widespread than OTL; it still exists here and there but it isn't a major force worldwide.

I could not begin to tell you about specific brands but I will revisit which countries have notable automotive and electronic industries.

Likewise I could not tell you about specifics artists but you can see some popular genres listed in the list of national symbols; generally popular music is more fragmented by language than OTL (English, Spanish, French, Dutch, and German being the big ones) with a wider variety of genres enjoying middling popularity. I think hip hop per se probably would not exist but I'd have to think about whether and where something similar might have emerged.

The flag of Sicily is actually an OTL Sicilian independentist one, I guess the stripes are in reference to the period of Aragonese rule over Sicily (as a result of which the Catalan stripes were part of a lot of Sicilian and Neapolitan flags and arms for a long time) as a unique aspect of Sicily's heritage that sets it apart from the rest of Italy.

Thanks for your support!
 
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