It would be interesting to see someone do something like this for a world where Tolkien's Middle-earth turned out to be a more-or-less accurate portrayal of Western Eurasia in the Neolithic. This would have some fairly significant implications for archaeology and history - for instance, Indo-European peoples, and even recognizably Germanic peoples specifically in the form of the Rohirrim, would have been present in Europe much earlier than was the case IOTL, while non-human hominids (dwarves, orcs, trolls, etc.) would have survived much later than the time of the extinction of Neanderthals IOTL.
Map Thread XIX
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It would be interesting to see someone do something like this for a world where Tolkien's Middle-earth turned out to be a more-or-less accurate portrayal of Western Eurasia in the Neolithic. This would have some fairly significant implications for archaeology and history - for instance, Indo-European peoples, and even recognizably Germanic peoples specifically in the form of the Rohirrim, would have been present in Europe much earlier than was the case IOTL, while non-human hominids (dwarves, orcs, trolls, etc.) would have survived much later than the time of the extinction of Neanderthals IOTL.
Assuming that this would entail the removal of Magic and (ignoring the butterflies for a moment) Columbus would discover Elves in the Americas?
Btw for some reason I feel like I might do a present day map of this spin-off too.
Didn’t Eru remove the Undying Lands from the same physical realm as Middle-earth after Númenor was sunk? That is, by the time that Bilbo and Frodo set sail for that country, it could only be reached by explicitly magical means.
My impression that the Land of the Sun was intended to be the Americas of the Third Age, while the Dark Land would be the equivalent of Sundaland and/or Sahul before much of the post-Ice Age flooding.
This is sort of a darker spinoff of my Riveterpunk map, which is itself an attempt at a reverse Man in the High Castle. It is very likely that this will prove to be a complete mess of map, but I have had a lot of fun making it. Credit goes to @weaverj for the idea to have a Riveterpunk spinoff with the CS vs. White Russia.
A Mirror, Darkly
The year is 1962. While the world may technically be at peace, not all is well on Earth. Since the end of a world-wide war a decade and a half, two powers, a Eurasian land power and an English-speaking North American state, have been in competition. These are not, however, the powers we are familiar with from the Cold War of our universe. In this world, the Confederate States of America won their war for independence and slowly expanded to encompass all of the former United States and later North America. As Russia did not sell Alaska to the cash-strapped United States, it remained a colony of Moscow, and accordingly, the CS and Britain were more forceful in their support for the White movement in the Russian Civil War. Though the Reds were ultimately able to establish a socialist state west of the Urals, various white factions set up their own states in the Far East. Under the charisma of the mysterious Baron von Ungern-Sternberg, these statelets united into the pan-nationalist Eurasian State, which expanded into China during the chaos of the Warlord Era and would fulfill its dreams of reestablishing the Russian Empire at the end of the Second World War, in which they fought to victory against the Comintern alongside the Confederates. Within months of the atomic bombings of La Rochelle and Tours, the wartime alliance between the Confederate States and Eurasia broke apart as both sides realized their strategic goals were entirely incompatible. Two conflicting alliances: the Confederate and Eurasian blocs emerged, both armed to the teeth with atomic weaponry and intent on world domination. This tenuous state of affairs has lasted for over a decade and despite a bevy of incidents that could have led to a world-ending nuclear war, the world has remained largely intact. Whether the so-called Ice War can be resolved relatively peacefully or whether it will end in apocalypse is, as of yet, unknown.
The picture of Risdon is from Archive of the Friends of Oswald Mosley via wikipedia.
The picture of Uribe is from https://conversacionsobrehistoria.i...uribe-el-primer-ministro-comunista-de-espana/.
A Mirror, Darkly
1861: The Confederate War of Independence begins. Though their military does well, it will take the intervention of British and French forces to defeat the United States.
1864: The Confederate War of Independence comes to an end with the Treaty of Antwerp. The United States is forced to recognize the sovereignty of the CSA over the south, the New Mexico Territory, and Southern California. Shortly after, most of the world's nations have recognized the Confederacy.
1875: The Confederates establish their first African colony: Confederate Guinea. They will begin to colonize the Congo in the 1880s.
1877: The French intervention in Mexico comes to an end as Maximilian abdicates and flees to Europe. Despite Confederate aid, the forces of Benito Juarez and later Ramon Corona, were too strong for the French to handle. The Confederates have, however, been able to hold several territories in the northwest they were ceded by the Empire several years before. Corona is deposed after just one year as President and is replaced by a more radical, anti-Confederate government.
1891-1893: Following years of saber-rattling by a radical, nationalist government in Mexico City, the Confederates go to war with Mexico. In the Confederate-Mexican War, the Confederates quickly occupy the major cities of the coast and the Valley of Mexico, but find it hard to pacify the mountainous countryside. The war ends in 1893 as the CSA annexes all of Mexico, though Mexican rebels will harass Confederate settlers well into the 20th century.
1908: Slavery is finally abolished in every state of the Confederacy when Mississippi narrowly votes to get rid of it. This leaves Brazil as the last major nation in the world to still have slavery.
1914: World War One begins with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The United States, which is aligned with Germany, goes to war with the Confederacy.
1917: In October, revolutionaries depose the Russian monarchy and several months later they sign a treaty with Germany ceding western Russia to the Germans. The Germans shift their military west in hopes of defeating France but are unsuccessful. The Russian Civil War will begin several months later.
1918: Pressured by his country, the Kaiser of Germany abdicates, a republic is formed in Germany and peace is signed. Meanwhile, the Confederate States annexes the United States.
1919: The Treaty of Versailles is signed in France. The ineffective World Union is formed.
1922: The March on Rome occurs and the fascist party of Benito Mussolini is ushered into government in the Kingdom of Italy. The Russian Civil War comes to an end with the Russian State led by Admiral Kolchak in Siberia (capital in Vladivostok) and Roman von Ungern-Sternberg as Prime Minister of Mongolia. In Moscow, the USSR has control, though a number of republics have broken off on the western frontier. Kolchak keeps Siberia together through his personality alone. Alaska breaks off as an independent republic that democratically votes to join Eurasia in a referendum in 1943.
1923: German fascist leader Adolf Hitler leads an attempt at a coup in Munich. Hitler is shot dead by Bavarian police and his National Socialist Party is outlawed and collapses before folding into the DNVP.
1928: Under pressure from Sternberg, Mongolia is renamed the Great Eurasian State.
1929: The world economy crashes and the Great Depression begins.
1932: The French Communists come to power. They establish a dictatorship over the course of the 1930s.
1933: Admiral Kolchak is assassinated by a communist. The Russian State begins to crack.
In the Confederacy, Huey Long is elected as the first non-Democratic President. He is hamstrung by a planter elite dominated Congress and leaves tired and jaded in 1939. Afterwards, he turns to a weird form of fascism in his later years and run for President as a member of the Confederate League of Fascists perennially. He will later be the head of the Grayshirts, the Confederate Fascist paramilitary.
1935: Italy invades Ethiopia. Despite setbacks, Ethiopia is conquered and Italian East Africa is formed the following year. International protests fall on deaf ears.
Meanwhile, Britain holds elections. The ineffective Conservative government is kicked from office and the Communists under Willie Gallacher come into power in coalition with Labour (which it merges with in 1937). The Communists build up their infrastructure and take control of the country.
1936: The Spanish Civil War begins when fascists attempt to take control. The war lasts three years and ends with the Franco-British supported communists in the Republic winning. The Peoples State, established in 1941, will be the only major communist state to survive the Second World War.
1937: Following the start of civil strife in Siberia, the Eurasians invade and annex Siberia.
1938: The British narrowly vote to abolish the monarchy in a referendum supported by the Communists. A short civil war breaks out but ends by March of 1939.
1939: Following attempts by the Hugenberg Government in Germany to utilize Rhineland factories, communist France declares war on Germany and World War Two begins. Communist Britain joins in soon after, with the Low Countries overrun quickly.
While all of this is happening, Italy invades and quickly conquers Albania.
1940: The Comintern signs an alliance, the Dutt-Nomura Pact, with Japan as a means of getting the Japanese to defeat the White Russians.
1941: The USSR, spurred on by Britain and France, attacks Eurasia. Japan joins in several months later. In December, Japan strikes the Confederate Naval Base at Pearl Harbor. The Confederates join the war against the Comintern and Japan.
1943: By this time, the Comintern and Japan (the Axis) are on the defensive with the Allies, comprised of the CSA, Eurasia, Brazil, and numerous free forces from Europe, on the attack.
Britain itself is invaded by Confederate forces from Iceland and Ireland. Shortly after the disastrous battle of the Merseyside, moderate generals depose the communist government in London and declare for the monarchy. The British Civil War breaks out as backers of the Peoples Republic fight the Allied-backed monarchists.
In late November of 1943, the Japanese government capitulates from their mountain capital of Shimonita. Japan will be divided between the Confederates and Oceanians in the south and Eurasians in the north.
1944: Operation Cavalier, the largest seaborne invasion in history, begins on June 6th as Allied forces land in Normandy. Despite the best attempts of the French Red Army, the Allies cannot be dislodged and fighting has come to France. Meanwhile the Eurasians push further west through Germany.
1945: World War Two comes to an end. The Eurasians launch Operation Steel Khan in the spring, bringing them to the outskirts of Paris. They are halted by elderly Parisians and the teenaged remnants of the Pioneer movement. By the end of July, the Confederates have developed an atomic bomb and in hopes of bringing an end to the war, simultaneously bomb La Rochelle and Tours. The French government surrenders unconditionally on August 15th, signalling the end of World War Two. France is divided into occupation zones. The Ice War begins.
The World Concordiat is founded as a successor to the World Union. Many mandates, former colonies dominated by other, more powerful western states, are created.
1946: The British people vote in a referendum to abolish the monarchy and the Republic of Britain is founded.
1948: Eurasian forces cut off western access to West Belgrade in hopes of forcing Confederate, Brazilian, British, and French forces to withdraw from the city. The Belgrade Airlift begins as western air forces attempt to resupply their forces and civilians of West Belgrade by air. After ten months of near-constant landings, Eurasia gives up and reopens ground routes into West Belgrade.
Britain gives most of the Indian Raj independence. In hopes of dividing India so as not to make it a formidable power in the future, Muslim-majority states are created in Pakistan and Bengal, while the subcontinent proper is divided into three states: Hindustan in the north, the Confederacy of Indian Princes (CIP), and Dravidistan in the south. The CIP is headed by the Nizam of Hyderabad, who had aligned with the monarchists in the 1930s. Hindustan will later join the Eurasian sphere as the Indian Peoples Empire while Dravidistan will align with the Confederate States. Anglo-Indians are encouraged to migrate to the Andaman and Nicobar islands, which are retained by Britain.
The Italo-Greek War breaks out. The next year, Italy defeats Greece and annexes Crete and Ionian Islands. The Greek monarchy will survive and align itself with Eurasia in the 1950s while abolishing many facets of democracy.
1949: The Eurasians develop an atomic bomb. The long Chinese Civil War ends with the Armistice of Chongqing. The Eurasians get the north while the Confederate-backed Republic survives in the south.
1950: The Japanese War begins when the Eurasian-backed monarchy of North Japan attacks the Confederate-backed Republic of Japan. Though South Japan is nearly pushed out of Honshu, the intervention of Atlantic bloc forces prevents this and after three grueling years of war, peace is signed with both North and South Japan still existing.
1954: The Confederates test the first hydrogen bomb.
1955: The Eurasian Treaty Organization is established to provide a military alliance for Great Eurasian-backed European states.
1956: A move towards democracy in the Saqqawist Kingdom of Afghanistan is quashed when the Eurasians send in their military.
Benito Mussolini is killed by a communist in Rome. The Blackshirts install the aging Augusto De Marsanich as head of state. The next year they move against the monarchy, declaring it incompatible with fascism. While the CSA would have preferred the monarchy to stay in power, they do not intervene.
1957: The Eurasians launch the first Earth satellite, Chingis-I.
1958: The Integral Arab State is formed when fascist Egypt under Nasser annexes the former European colonies of the Levant.
1960: Fascist Italy tests its first atomic bomb.
1961: The Eurasians and East Yugoslavia demand the west hands over its portion of Belgrade. The Belgrade Crisis ends with the construction of a wall around West Belgrade.
Headed up by Italy, the Non-Aligned Movement is created in Rome. Detractors will claim it is a fascist organization, though in this world fascism is not as tainted because the Nazis never achieved power.
1864: The Confederate War of Independence comes to an end with the Treaty of Antwerp. The United States is forced to recognize the sovereignty of the CSA over the south, the New Mexico Territory, and Southern California. Shortly after, most of the world's nations have recognized the Confederacy.
1875: The Confederates establish their first African colony: Confederate Guinea. They will begin to colonize the Congo in the 1880s.
1877: The French intervention in Mexico comes to an end as Maximilian abdicates and flees to Europe. Despite Confederate aid, the forces of Benito Juarez and later Ramon Corona, were too strong for the French to handle. The Confederates have, however, been able to hold several territories in the northwest they were ceded by the Empire several years before. Corona is deposed after just one year as President and is replaced by a more radical, anti-Confederate government.
1891-1893: Following years of saber-rattling by a radical, nationalist government in Mexico City, the Confederates go to war with Mexico. In the Confederate-Mexican War, the Confederates quickly occupy the major cities of the coast and the Valley of Mexico, but find it hard to pacify the mountainous countryside. The war ends in 1893 as the CSA annexes all of Mexico, though Mexican rebels will harass Confederate settlers well into the 20th century.
1908: Slavery is finally abolished in every state of the Confederacy when Mississippi narrowly votes to get rid of it. This leaves Brazil as the last major nation in the world to still have slavery.
1914: World War One begins with the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The United States, which is aligned with Germany, goes to war with the Confederacy.
1917: In October, revolutionaries depose the Russian monarchy and several months later they sign a treaty with Germany ceding western Russia to the Germans. The Germans shift their military west in hopes of defeating France but are unsuccessful. The Russian Civil War will begin several months later.
1918: Pressured by his country, the Kaiser of Germany abdicates, a republic is formed in Germany and peace is signed. Meanwhile, the Confederate States annexes the United States.
1919: The Treaty of Versailles is signed in France. The ineffective World Union is formed.
1922: The March on Rome occurs and the fascist party of Benito Mussolini is ushered into government in the Kingdom of Italy. The Russian Civil War comes to an end with the Russian State led by Admiral Kolchak in Siberia (capital in Vladivostok) and Roman von Ungern-Sternberg as Prime Minister of Mongolia. In Moscow, the USSR has control, though a number of republics have broken off on the western frontier. Kolchak keeps Siberia together through his personality alone. Alaska breaks off as an independent republic that democratically votes to join Eurasia in a referendum in 1943.
1923: German fascist leader Adolf Hitler leads an attempt at a coup in Munich. Hitler is shot dead by Bavarian police and his National Socialist Party is outlawed and collapses before folding into the DNVP.
1928: Under pressure from Sternberg, Mongolia is renamed the Great Eurasian State.
1929: The world economy crashes and the Great Depression begins.
1932: The French Communists come to power. They establish a dictatorship over the course of the 1930s.
1933: Admiral Kolchak is assassinated by a communist. The Russian State begins to crack.
In the Confederacy, Huey Long is elected as the first non-Democratic President. He is hamstrung by a planter elite dominated Congress and leaves tired and jaded in 1939. Afterwards, he turns to a weird form of fascism in his later years and run for President as a member of the Confederate League of Fascists perennially. He will later be the head of the Grayshirts, the Confederate Fascist paramilitary.
1935: Italy invades Ethiopia. Despite setbacks, Ethiopia is conquered and Italian East Africa is formed the following year. International protests fall on deaf ears.
Meanwhile, Britain holds elections. The ineffective Conservative government is kicked from office and the Communists under Willie Gallacher come into power in coalition with Labour (which it merges with in 1937). The Communists build up their infrastructure and take control of the country.
1936: The Spanish Civil War begins when fascists attempt to take control. The war lasts three years and ends with the Franco-British supported communists in the Republic winning. The Peoples State, established in 1941, will be the only major communist state to survive the Second World War.
1937: Following the start of civil strife in Siberia, the Eurasians invade and annex Siberia.
1938: The British narrowly vote to abolish the monarchy in a referendum supported by the Communists. A short civil war breaks out but ends by March of 1939.
1939: Following attempts by the Hugenberg Government in Germany to utilize Rhineland factories, communist France declares war on Germany and World War Two begins. Communist Britain joins in soon after, with the Low Countries overrun quickly.
While all of this is happening, Italy invades and quickly conquers Albania.
1940: The Comintern signs an alliance, the Dutt-Nomura Pact, with Japan as a means of getting the Japanese to defeat the White Russians.
1941: The USSR, spurred on by Britain and France, attacks Eurasia. Japan joins in several months later. In December, Japan strikes the Confederate Naval Base at Pearl Harbor. The Confederates join the war against the Comintern and Japan.
1943: By this time, the Comintern and Japan (the Axis) are on the defensive with the Allies, comprised of the CSA, Eurasia, Brazil, and numerous free forces from Europe, on the attack.
Britain itself is invaded by Confederate forces from Iceland and Ireland. Shortly after the disastrous battle of the Merseyside, moderate generals depose the communist government in London and declare for the monarchy. The British Civil War breaks out as backers of the Peoples Republic fight the Allied-backed monarchists.
In late November of 1943, the Japanese government capitulates from their mountain capital of Shimonita. Japan will be divided between the Confederates and Oceanians in the south and Eurasians in the north.
1944: Operation Cavalier, the largest seaborne invasion in history, begins on June 6th as Allied forces land in Normandy. Despite the best attempts of the French Red Army, the Allies cannot be dislodged and fighting has come to France. Meanwhile the Eurasians push further west through Germany.
1945: World War Two comes to an end. The Eurasians launch Operation Steel Khan in the spring, bringing them to the outskirts of Paris. They are halted by elderly Parisians and the teenaged remnants of the Pioneer movement. By the end of July, the Confederates have developed an atomic bomb and in hopes of bringing an end to the war, simultaneously bomb La Rochelle and Tours. The French government surrenders unconditionally on August 15th, signalling the end of World War Two. France is divided into occupation zones. The Ice War begins.
The World Concordiat is founded as a successor to the World Union. Many mandates, former colonies dominated by other, more powerful western states, are created.
1946: The British people vote in a referendum to abolish the monarchy and the Republic of Britain is founded.
1948: Eurasian forces cut off western access to West Belgrade in hopes of forcing Confederate, Brazilian, British, and French forces to withdraw from the city. The Belgrade Airlift begins as western air forces attempt to resupply their forces and civilians of West Belgrade by air. After ten months of near-constant landings, Eurasia gives up and reopens ground routes into West Belgrade.
Britain gives most of the Indian Raj independence. In hopes of dividing India so as not to make it a formidable power in the future, Muslim-majority states are created in Pakistan and Bengal, while the subcontinent proper is divided into three states: Hindustan in the north, the Confederacy of Indian Princes (CIP), and Dravidistan in the south. The CIP is headed by the Nizam of Hyderabad, who had aligned with the monarchists in the 1930s. Hindustan will later join the Eurasian sphere as the Indian Peoples Empire while Dravidistan will align with the Confederate States. Anglo-Indians are encouraged to migrate to the Andaman and Nicobar islands, which are retained by Britain.
The Italo-Greek War breaks out. The next year, Italy defeats Greece and annexes Crete and Ionian Islands. The Greek monarchy will survive and align itself with Eurasia in the 1950s while abolishing many facets of democracy.
1949: The Eurasians develop an atomic bomb. The long Chinese Civil War ends with the Armistice of Chongqing. The Eurasians get the north while the Confederate-backed Republic survives in the south.
1950: The Japanese War begins when the Eurasian-backed monarchy of North Japan attacks the Confederate-backed Republic of Japan. Though South Japan is nearly pushed out of Honshu, the intervention of Atlantic bloc forces prevents this and after three grueling years of war, peace is signed with both North and South Japan still existing.
1954: The Confederates test the first hydrogen bomb.
1955: The Eurasian Treaty Organization is established to provide a military alliance for Great Eurasian-backed European states.
1956: A move towards democracy in the Saqqawist Kingdom of Afghanistan is quashed when the Eurasians send in their military.
Benito Mussolini is killed by a communist in Rome. The Blackshirts install the aging Augusto De Marsanich as head of state. The next year they move against the monarchy, declaring it incompatible with fascism. While the CSA would have preferred the monarchy to stay in power, they do not intervene.
1957: The Eurasians launch the first Earth satellite, Chingis-I.
1958: The Integral Arab State is formed when fascist Egypt under Nasser annexes the former European colonies of the Levant.
1960: Fascist Italy tests its first atomic bomb.
1961: The Eurasians and East Yugoslavia demand the west hands over its portion of Belgrade. The Belgrade Crisis ends with the construction of a wall around West Belgrade.
Headed up by Italy, the Non-Aligned Movement is created in Rome. Detractors will claim it is a fascist organization, though in this world fascism is not as tainted because the Nazis never achieved power.
The picture of Risdon is from Archive of the Friends of Oswald Mosley via wikipedia.
The picture of Uribe is from https://conversacionsobrehistoria.i...uribe-el-primer-ministro-comunista-de-espana/.
TheScottishMongol
Banned
The Rohirrim aren't that Germanic. While Tolkien used Old English names for them, this was translation convention, to reflect them speaking an older dialect of Westron, or the Common Tongue, than the people of Eriador, but Westron isn't English, it's another of Tolkien's conlangs.
People always depict the Easterlings as vaguely East Asian for...reasons...but their use of chariots and axes reminded me of the Indo-Europeans, with the implication that eventually they would conquer Eriador and assimilate the pre-Indo-European ethnic groups there.
And yeah, the Rohirrim in the films are supposed to be Germanic inspired in their material culture, but that's not exactly how Tolkien described them. Though if you really wanted to connect the two, you could always say there was some cultural continuity between them and the proto-Germanic people who arrived in Europe and conquered them. Insert Vanir-Aesir War as metaphor for real-life conflict theories here.
Actually, if you really want to make Lord of the Rings "real" an underexplored option is to give Tolkien what he wanted: make the Lord of the Rings the heroic cycle of an alternate Anglo-Saxon culture, with the Silmarillion being a collection of Anglo-Saxon myths. The Valar were the Anglo-Saxon gods and all the stuff about Eru is just the transposition by later Christian monks who wrote it all down. Then later some Oxford philologist does some translation work from an old Anglo-Saxon chronicle called, for obscure reasons, the Red Book of Westmarch.
You know there's a real red book (of Hergest , not of the westmarch)? It's just Welsh not Anglo-Saxon or hobbittish.
A grim scenario for sure, but I wanted to try my hand at some "Cold War Terminal" style alt-history maps and this was the first dystopia that came to mind. Not much of a scenario, more of a proof of concept with some TNOmod aesthetics. Photoshopping Archibald Ramsay into a different uniform was surprisingly easy - may try out some more complex portrait design next time I try and make a map featuring one!
Well, this raises an interesting question - if we were to match the various peoples of Middle-earth with historical Neolithic cultures, what might work? As you say, the Easterlings would be the proto-Indo-European raiders, while the Haradrim might be the Natufians or some other proto-Afroasiatic nation making liberal use of war elephants, and perhaps even war mammoths as well.
TheScottishMongol
Banned
Well mumakil are explicitly a different species than elephants - "they are now survived only by their smaller kin" I think is the line in Two Towers. The straight-tusked elephant was found in Europe and the Middle East into the Late Pleistocene and was bigger than African elephants (by only a few feet, but it is quite bigger).
It's a simple map but the aesthetic is on point and you captured the horror of the scenario quite nicely. Chills went up my spine at "mass liquidation". Well done!
Well, if you could spot this scenario late-surviving Neanderthals and Denisovans and such to represent the Dwarves and Orcs and such, then you can do the same with the straight-tusked elephant.
A very ASB map based on the geopolitics role play timeline of our nation states region Pax Britannia https://www.nationstates.net/region=pax_britannia. Shows the world and the major power blocs immediately after the Second Great War from 1934 to 1937.
Thank you! I'm working on perfecting the style to use in a series of maps set in the same universe at the moment so we'll see how that goes
A very ASB map based on the geopolitics role play timeline of our nation states region Pax Britannia https://www.nationstates.net/region=pax_britannia. Shows the world and the major power blocs immediately after the Second Great War from 1934 to 1937.
So cursed that I can't even begin explaining. Very nice, aesthetically speaking, however.
Also you put Angola and Namibia in GAUNTLET as an economic alliance but in Durban Pakt (sic) militarily. Why not just in Suid-African Union?
Edit: Also "Toulouse Concord" aka France and Catalonia
Also Silesia really doesn't need representation in the name since it was part of Kingdom of Bohemia originally.
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The alliances are mostly to do with the role play we’ve done which yes is cursed. Demographics and ethnicity are completely wacky so stuff like surviving Byzantium and mega Hungary because the Ottomans never really rose. Catalonia being culturally french. Or India being linguistically Greek from Greco-Bactria etc. It’s an odd timeline to say the least...
”Oh, hey, a new one. Turn the boat, Jim.“
*boat lands*
“Hmm… doesn’t look like there’s any of... it… here.“
”Mike, we’re looking at one part of one beach. Shouldn’t we at least pretend to look around a bit more?”
”RELEASE THE BATS!”
*bats released, one of them poops*
“AHA! There! Guano! Island’s ours now.“
A question about these:
ATL WW1 and
TTLs WW2 maps.
About which ones do you think are better. The second ones are simpler and easier to read I think but the WW2 one has the problem of being far too simplified (and not all countries ITTL would agree with it since wars Socialists were involved in at the time are generally seen as fundamentally separate from WW2 and while the war against USA sometimes gets classified as part of WW2, USA is mostly seen as separate from the Entente). Another issue I can see is that it would be weird if I go with the second one for WW1 and the first one for WW2. Anyway, yeah I am asking for opinions.
Edit: I just realized that Madagascar in WW2 has been coloured wrong.
ATL WW1 and
TTLs WW2 maps.
About which ones do you think are better. The second ones are simpler and easier to read I think but the WW2 one has the problem of being far too simplified (and not all countries ITTL would agree with it since wars Socialists were involved in at the time are generally seen as fundamentally separate from WW2 and while the war against USA sometimes gets classified as part of WW2, USA is mostly seen as separate from the Entente). Another issue I can see is that it would be weird if I go with the second one for WW1 and the first one for WW2. Anyway, yeah I am asking for opinions.
Edit: I just realized that Madagascar in WW2 has been coloured wrong.
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Maybe the second set, but with different shading to give nuance?
- Status