The World of Turtledove's In the Presence of Mine Enemies

[MaxGerke01]

Were the Nazis in Puerto Rico or any of the Caribbean islands ?

 

[Odinson]

Germany and Japan have nuclear weapons, but would any other countries like the ones in South America have one or two to preserve their independence?
I know in OTL Switzerland was interested in gaining an Atomic Bomb for a short time until the Swiss government killed the proposal. Could Switzerland have actually managed to get one and that's why they're still independent?

 

[Eckener]

Were the Nazis in Puerto Rico or any of the Caribbean islands ?

So, US possessions would stay "American"....Cuba is interesting in that it might not have had Castro's revolution and still been an American puppet TTL. British Islands would likely have gone to Canada, and so now would be under the new regime post-WWIII. Beyond that....If they were independent before, I could see them keeping independence so long as they play ball with the Nazis. If they were colonial possessions, they've likely been gobbled up.

Germany and Japan have nuclear weapons, but would any other countries like the ones in South America have one or two to preserve their independence?
I know in OTL Switzerland was interested in gaining an Atomic Bomb for a short time until the Swiss government killed the proposal. Could Switzerland have actually managed to get one and that's why they're still independent?

Swiss independence during all of this is curious, especially after WWIII. I wouldn't be surprised if they've secretly acquired nukes. Switzerland definitely has to walk a fine line, since they are literally surrounded on all sides by fascists, mostly by the Reich itself and the larger Deutsches Imperium, along with the Italian Empire to the south.

 

[Zoidberg12]

Were the Nazis in Puerto Rico or any of the Caribbean islands ?

In my map I had Puerto Rico as a part of Spain, as I figured that Germany would have given it to its ally of Spain after the defeat of the USA in WW3, although I'm not sure if Spain< Portugal or Italy would have participated in the war alongside Germany and Japan.

Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic would be fascist or fascistic dictatorships like the rest of the nations of Latin America.

 

[Eckener]

In my map I had Puerto Rico as a part of Spain, as I figured that Germany would have given it to its ally of Spain after the defeat of the USA in WW3, although I'm not sure if Spain< Portugal or Italy would have participated in the war alongside Germany and Japan.

Cuba, Haiti and the Dominican Republic would be fascist or fascistic dictatorships like the rest of the nations of Latin America.

I suppose that PR could end up returned to Spain, but I doubt it. Also, I don't think that Spain or Italy would have been all that involved in WWIII....mainly because it didn't last very long.

 

[Zoidberg12]

Heres a list I made of the German-led alliance, the territories that make up Germany and its allies and their own territories.

Greater German Empire (Grossdeutsches Imperium)

Grossdeutsches Reich (Greater Germanic Empire)

German Reich

Integrated Protectorates

• General Governorate of the Vistula (Poland)
• Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia (Czechia)
• Protectorate of the Netherlands
• Protectorate of Flanders and Wallonia (Belgium)
• Protectorate of Denmark
• Protectorate of Norway
• Territory of Banat

Self-Ruling Protectorates

• Protectorate of Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales)
• Protectorate of Serbia
• Protectorate of Iceland

Reichskommissariats

• RK Ukraine
• RK Ostland (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Belarus)
• RK Moskowien (Western Russia)
• RK Siberien
• RK Kaukasus
• RK Turkestan
• RK Persien
• RK Arabien (Including the Suez Canal Zone)
• RK Afganistan
• RK India
• RK Westafrika
• RK Mittelafrika
• RK Ostafrika
• RK Madagascar (Including Indian Ocean islands)
• RK Karibik (Caribbean Islands, Guyanas, Belize and Panama Canal Territory)
• RK Atlantica (South Atlantic Islands)
• RK Greenland

Unincorporated Overseas Territories

• New Swabia Antarctic Territory

Militarily Occupied and Self-Governing Territories

• United States of America
• Canada

Puppet States of the Greater German Reich

• French State (Militarily Occupied by the Greater German Reich)
• Slovak Republic

Independent German-Allied Nations:

Kingdom of Italy

Overseas Territories

• Italian Tripolitania

Protectorates

• Kingdom of Albania
• Kingdom of Montenegro
• Hellenic State

Self-Governing Territories

• Turkish State

Colonies

• Italian Malta
• Italian Cyprus
• Italian East Africa
• Italian Egypt-Sudan
• Italian Algeria

Spanish State

Colonial Protectorates

• Kingdom of Morocco
• Sultanate of Rif

Colonies

• Spanish Sahara
• Spanish Guinea
• Spanish Puerto Rico

Portuguese State
Independent State of Croatia
Hungarian State
Romanian National Legionary State
Tsardom of Bulgaria
State of Sweden
Republic of Finland
Union of South Africa
Integralist Republic of Brazil
Argentine National Republic
Republic of Chile
Oriental Republic of Uruguay
Synarchist State of Mexico
Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela

 

[Zoidberg12]

Neutral Nations

Republic of Ireland
Swiss Confederation
Principality of Liechtenstein
Principality of Andorra
Vatican City State
Republic of Colombia
Republic of Peru
Republic of Ecuador
Bolivian State
Republic of Paraguay
Republic of Cuba
Republic of Haiti
Dominican Republic
Republic of Guatemala
Republic of Honduras
Republic of Salvador
Republic of Nicaragua
Republic of Costa Rica
Republic of Panama

 

[Zoidberg12]

Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere

Empire of Japan

Overseas Territories

• Japanese Korea
• Japanese Formosa
• Japanese Shanghai
• Japanese Qingdao
• Japanese Port Arthur
• Japanese Hong Kong
• Japanese Macau
• Japanese Hanian
• Japanese Singapore
• Japanese Andaman Islands
• Japanese Hawaii
• Japanese Oceania
• Japanese Alaska
• Japanese Siberia

Unorganized Overseas Territories

• Japanese Island Territories (All Japanese Islands in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean ruled directly by the Japanese government and Imperial Japanese Navy)
• Japanese Antarctic Territory

Puppet States

• Republic of China
• Kingdom of Manchukuo
• Mengjiang United Autonomous Government
• Khanate of Mongolia
• Monastic State of Tibet
• East Turkestan Republic
• Tuvan State
• Kingdom of Thailand
• State of Burma
• Empire of Vietnam
• Kingdom of Laos
• Kingdom of Cambodia
• Second Philippine Republic
• Republic of the United States of Indonesia
• Kingdom of Malaya
• Raj of Sarawak
• Sultanate of Sulu
• Sultanate of Brunei
• State of Papua

Occupied and Self-Governing Territories

• Commonwealth of Australia
• State of New Zealand

 

[Eckener]

@Zoidberg12 , these lists look great!

The only thing for sure that I think may be missing is Hawaii, which was given to Japan after WWIII.

I would say that the USA would also be listed as "Occupied and Self-Governing" or some other similar title. Also, Canada has been "dissolved" and integrated into the United States.

Also, I don't think that India would be made a Reichskommissariat. Indians got credit as Aryans. Now, India would be a mess for sure, but I think it would be something other than an RK.

 

[MaxGerke01]

I suppose that PR could end up returned to Spain, but I doubt it. Also, I don't think that Spain or Italy would have been all that involved in WWIII....mainly because it didn't last very long.

OTOH sadly there probably Italian and maybe Spanish SS units active in the North American Holocaust -maybe the Italians in particular as the book notes that Germany had forced the to commit genocides in their Middle Eastern and African territories and they wanted to show their "skills" ? BTW any names or chapters any closer ?

 

[NotedCoyote]

Also, Canada has been "dissolved" and integrated into the United States.

It's worth noting that when the map of the world is described from Alicia's perspective in the classroom, Canada is listed as a separate country along with the United States - occupied by the Germans but not integrated into the Reich like the UK.

 

[MaxGerke01]

It's worth noting that when the map of the world is described from Alicia's perspective in the classroom, Canada is listed as a separate country along with the United States - occupied by the Germans but not integrated into the Reich like the UK.

Well to clarify what he is saying here is that Canada is integrated into the US not that either are directly integrated into the Reich. It seems very possible that at least for administrative and political purposes the US and Canada were considered a single polity by the Reich even if actual Americans and Canadians still didnt see it that way and perhaps technically they were still two separate counties as shown on the map.

 

[Eckener]

OTOH sadly there probably Italian and maybe Spanish SS units active in the North American Holocaust -maybe the Italians in particular as the book notes that Germany had forced the to commit genocides in their Middle Eastern and African territories and they wanted to show their "skills" ? BTW any names or chapters any closer ?

Working on names today and *maybe* a new chapter. I've been mulling over some things in my head and also re-listening to the original audiobook just to get back in that headspace.

I don't think there would be actual Spanish and Italian units of the SS, just as there isn't technically American units. Instead they'd have their own agencies carrying out such deeds.

It's worth noting that when the map of the world is described from Alicia's perspective in the classroom, Canada is listed as a separate country along with the United States - occupied by the Germans but not integrated into the Reich like the UK.

Well to clarify what he is saying here is that Canada is integrated into the US not that either are directly integrated into the Reich. It seems very possible that at least for administrative and political purposes the US and Canada were considered a single polity by the Reich even if actual Americans and Canadians still didnt see it that way and perhaps technically they were still two separate counties as shown on the map.

@NotedCoyote is right, I did overlook that. When typing up my initial ideas for what happened in North America, with Canada having been the refuge for the British royal family in exile, I had liked the idea of Canada being dissolved as a sort of post-war punishment, and the Canadian provinces being integrated into the United States. But I'm not married to the idea, so a separate Canada is fine, though I'm not 100% what it would look like. In my write up, after WWII, Elizabeth II became Queen of Canada, and the country was recognized as a separate Kingdom. Elizabeth of course is killed in WWIII when Ottowa is nuked by the Reich, and her sister Margaret returns to become the heir to the British throne in London under her uncle (and it is HER son that is Henry IX).

I doubt they'd set up a new monarchy after the war. Would it become a "republic," at least in name? The "Federation of Canada," perhaps, with the capital in Winnipeg, or possibly Vancouver (Toronto and Ottowa both got nuked).

 

[Eckener]

More names...

• Henry Kissinger - Family is unable to escape Germany in 1938 (when they left OTL), and perished in the initial Holocaust sometime between 1942-44.
• Gloria Steinem - Steinem’s early life is largely the same as OTL. She gets out of New York City and hides upstate for awhile. She’s on a list, first because of her feminist “anti-state” opinions, and then again for Jewish ancestry. She was arrested in March of 1974 and sentenced to 25 years hard labor in South Dakota. She died in the camp in 1983.
• Jane Fonda - Early life and career largely follows OTL. When The US is invaded, she joins the resistance. She is most famous for helping to lead a raid on the new Japanese Naval Base in San Diego in 1974. She stayed on the run until 1977, when she was captured alive by the NBSS. She was executed on May 11, 1977 for treason and terrorism.
• Howard Hughes - Life is largely unchanged ITTL. He’s in his 60s when WWIII occured, and had already retired. He’s in the background and does not interfere with the new regime. Dies in 1973.
• Walt Disney - Life remains the same. Died in 1966 as per OTL. See the timeline for details about what happened to the Disney company and parks after his death.
• Nelson Rockefeller - Early life is largely the same as OTL. He worked for the Lindberg Administration from 1942 onward, helping the administration with South American relations, ultimately serving as American Ambassador to Mexico. Leaves federal government service in 1949 when Kennedy took office. Ran for Senate in 1950 for New York, and served until 1960, when he was elected as Governor of New York. There was speculation that he would have run for President in 1972 had the war not occurred. Was in Albany when the war began. Attempted to coordinate resistance in the early days of the fighting after DC and the other cities were nuked. Was ultimately arrested in December of 1971 and held in custody for several months before ultimately being sentenced to hard labor in Montana in late 1972. He dies in camp in 1976.
• George Wallace - Early life and career are largely unchanged, other than not having any military service. This would include working as an assistant attorney general in Alabama, a circuit court judge in that state, and a failed attempt to run for governor where he was hurt because of his relatively liberal stance on race issues, which he abandoned going forward. Was elected governor of Alabama in 1962, and was reelected twice, still in office when WWIII broke out. He quickly supported Thurmond’s new government, and was tapped in 1973 to become the new Secretary of State. Wallace would serve in this position until Thurmond left office in 1989. He spends a little over a year in retirement before being appointed by President Duke to be the US Ambassador to the Reich in 1991, where he served until 1996, retiring due to health reasons. He died in 1997.
• Fred Trump - Early life and career largely follows OTL arc. When WWIII broke out in 1971, the Trump family evacuated New York City to Long Island, and then to Connecticut, escaping the Siege of New York. The family initially fell on hard times as most of their sources of income were tied up in real estate in NYC. After the end of the Siege of New York in 1975, Fred Trump immediately contacts the various government authorities to try and regain his property and quickly gets in contact with the group headed by Albert Speer that is tasked with rebuilding the city. Trump will become a major player in the rebuilding effort. In 1990, Trump’s son, Donald, became mayor of NYC, a position he held until 2002, when he ran for Governor of New York. Fred Trump died in 1996. His son would go on to become a Senator from New York in 2012, a position he currently holds.
• George McGovern - Life is largely unaltered from OTL in the more important details. Was in office as senator from South Dakota in 1971 and died in the nuke strike on DC.
• John McCain - McCain’s early life was largely similar to OTL. He would serve in the US Navy as a pilot, enlisting in 1958. Since there is no Vietnam War ITTL, he doesn’t gain quite the same prestige. By a miracle, McCain did not die in the fighting during WWIII, but was captured in December 1971 and held as a POW by the Reich. In late 1972, he, along with all other captured military personnel, is given a choice: remain in the service of your country for a decade, or be sentenced to 15 years hard labor, and having restrictive punishments placed on your family (limits on education and work and where you could live). McCain later told his wife that had it been just about himself, he would have served his 15 years in South Dakota, but he couldn’t submit his family to bad conditions, and so on January 3, 1973, McCain took his oath to the new government, and would serve in the Navy until 1983, at which point he left the service. He returned home to Arizona and became a secondary school administrator until his retirement in 2007. He passed away in 2014.
• Walter Mondale - Life and career largely similar to OTL. Served as President Humphrey’s Attorney General, and died in the DC nuke blast.
• Harper Lee - Her life is largely unchanged ITTL. To Kill a Mockingbird was published in 1960, and still popular, and made into a movie in 1963. When WWIII broke out, she was living in New York City, but was visiting friends upstate and escaped the battle. She was not one for the spotlight anyway and so “laying low” was not hard for her. In 1973 the new government officially banned her book, and she was arrested by the NBSS. As she had not published any new works since 1960, she was eventually not sentenced to hard labor, but banned from writing or publishing or teaching. Despite this ban, she did write, and her second novel The Flames was finished in 1980 and secretly circulated among underground groups. It depicts some of her Mockingbird characters coping with life after WWIII. She was arrested by the NBSS in 1982 due to this novel, and sentenced to 10 years hard labor in Montanna. She died in 1990 while still in custody.
• Johnny Carson - Life and career largely similar to OTL. Started the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson in 1964, and was still on the air in 1971 when the war broke out. Survived the war, and initially planned to refuse to work for the new regime, but was told that he and his family would all be placed in a work camp if he refused, so reluctantly the Tonight Show began new broadcasts in the fall of 1972, and Carson would continue work until 1980, when he retired. The work did a number on him personally, and he committed suicide in 1982.
• 
  
• Ed Sullivan - Life and career follows OTL. The Ed Sullivan Show is hugely popular in the United States, but went off the air in June of 1971 as in OTL. Sullivan dies in 1972.

 

[Eckener]

Heinrich Gimpel looked around the banquet, situated in the grand rotunda of the Old Courthouse in St. Louis. It was...quaint. That’s not fair, I suppose. It is an impressive building, for its time and place, Heinrich thought. He’d read on some of the plaques that parts of the building dated back to the 1830s, and that the present structure, and in particular the dome, dated from the 1860s. Older than the German nation, in some respects, Heinrich mused. But for a man who worked practically next door to Berlin’s Great Hall, any other domed structure paled in comparison.

Still, the St. Louis Mayor and the Missouri Governor had done their best to make the space impressive. American and German national flags draped the sides of the space. Special lighting was also being used to set the mood. A US Army band played a mix of waltzes, mellow swing music, and other such tunes that befitted a state occasion. The room at the bottom of the rotunda was filled with uniformed German and American dignitaries. The speeches had been over for a while, for which Heinrich was very grateful. The Americans were trying to put their best foot forward, and spoke about American-German partnership, the strength of the Aryan race, and all the other usual folderal that one expected at such an event. The German officials were similarly pat in their comments. Even General Schneider, the head of Wehrmacht’s North American Plains Army, had given a bland speech about the might of Germanic peoples the world over in their continued struggle against non-Aryan threats. The conversations at his table were much more interesting, particularly with Senator Pembrook and his assistant, Herr Fontenoy.

“Senator, be honest with me, everything we hear about your upcoming election points to your party being tossed out of power. What then?” Heinrich asked, truly curious.
“Well Herr Gimpel, I won’t sugar coat it like some of my colleagues in the Senate might. The reforms began by the Fuhrer have continued to ripple through this nation, and I think we are looking at the return of political pluralism in the United States.”

“I believe I read in the Omaha Eagle that your colleague from New York, Senator Trump, believes that the FJP will keep hold of the Senate this year. Do you agree?”

Pembrook chuckled, and Heinrich was fairly certain he exchanged an eye-roll with his assistant. “Don has long been good at believing what he wants despite realities on the ground. Back when he was Mayor of New York City he was able to bring about what he wanted on sheer strength of will. That doesn’t really translate into the Senate. The New Federalists will likely take the Senate in November, I’m afraid. Though they’d be better than the Liberty Party. Those bastards are outright radical, and I think they’ll do more harm than good.”

“Why not ban the Liberty Party then?” Heinrich asked, in what he would privately describe as “professional mode.” Personally he wished the Liberty Party luck, as they were truly fighting for democracy, but in his current job, he couldn’t show that.

“If this were another time, Herr Gimpel, we would. But those times seem to be fast evaporating. If we are going to continue to maintain the public’s support of national socialist principles at all, we have to find ways for the minority opposition to vent off steam.”

“True enough, I suppose. We are seeing that at home, after a fashion. But the DNP is just a political vehicle for the military. It’s not that different from the NSDAP, when you get down to it.”

The Senator looked thoughtful. “Time will tell. It is my hope that giving some semblance of choice will renew and strengthen the state and allow American National Socialism to reinvent itself and continue on for generations to come. Otherwise, we stagnate and cannot survive.”

Heinrich nodded agreement at that. Indeed, that was essentially the line Buckliger and Stolle and other Nazi reformers had been saying for the past eight years following the failed coup. This upcoming American election would likely be a real test of that, even more so than the debate around the Grand Reform Bill back home. It made him both excited and very nervous. On the one hand, for the first time since he found out he was a Jew, Heinrich thought it just might be possible that, if not in his own lifetime, then certainly that of his children, Jews might once again be able to live freely. At a certain point, the reforms would become too much for the Nazi state and it would collapse. He was sure of that. On the other hand, such collapse could be quite violent, and what emerged on the other side of it might be just as bad. As the senator had said, only time would tell.

**********​

The next day was a visit to Fort Wilhelm, which lay about fifteen kilometers west of Saint Louis. This was one of the larger Wehrmacht Bases in the United States, and home to at least twenty thousand soldiers, only smaller than the bases at New York City and Los Angeles. Heinrich had been mildly fascinated by the drive out to the base, seeing the urban and suburban American landscape that was subtly different from that of Omaha, and vastly different from anything he was used to in Germany. The apartment blocks of Saint Louis gave way to the suburban single-family dwellings, most of which dated from before the Third World War. Heinrich suspected that not much had changed in some of these communities that had been white-only long before the Reich’s racial policies were imposed on the United States.

He also caught sight of some iconic Americana - the golden arches of one of the country’s most popular fast-food chains, one of the few to survive the war largely intact. Heinrich hadn’t had the chance to sample it yet, but had already been told it lived up to everything Germans thought of when the envisioned greasy American food. He’d also seen several of the Uncle Willie’s establishments already. The chain delivered decent approximations of German food, and was generally popular anywhere near Wehrmacht bases, but, from what Heinrich had heard, they were spreading across the US and becoming quite popular. He made a mental note to try one when they got back to Omaha if he had the chance.

The fort itself was largely what he’d expected to find. Sprawling, full of the machinery of war, and plenty of swastika banners to remind the locals of who had won the war half a century before. The imagery wasn’t subtle either, though when was fascist iconography ever subtle? The main gate had a towering Germanic Eagle above it, it’s wings stretching to cover the entire gate for both incoming and outbound traffic. Uniformed guards stood watch, and clicked to attention and saluted at the arrival of the motorcade of German and American officials. General Schneider gave them a quick overview tour. From what Heinrich could see, it was obvious that the Riech was still maintaining massive strength, even after the drawdown in forces that Buckliger had done after becoming Fuhrer. One of the main arguments that the Americans were pushing was that the Reich was keeping too large a force and that was why the yearly occupation assessment was, in their view, too high.

“General Schneider,” Heinrich began to ask, “Our American hosts here have continued to say that they envision their country as becoming an ally to the Reich, and as such the continued presence of so great an occupation force is unnecessary. What say you?”

The general paused for a moment before answering. Heinrich knew it was a tricky question, but one that he and his group had to ask. It was really at the heart of this whole mission. “Well, obviously I support the Fuhrer’s initial drawdown that he did almost a decade ago. We really did have too many soldiers here back then. To be frank, we had maintained essentially the same troop levels since the occupation began in 1971, and that was too high.”

“Yes of course. But can we afford to go lower? Can America really be an ally?” This was Heinrich’s boss, Richard Altenburg.

The general mulled his words carefully. “In some respects, yes, America has the potential to be more of an ally than merely an occupied nation. But it is a fine line, and frankly with the current political situation developing I am uncertain. The FJP make excellent partners. But who can say what will happen after this November’s election? As for the number of troops we have here, we would probably be safe with another reduction. We still have nearly 150,000 men under arms here, and the American military is nowhere near what it used to be.”

**********​

Unlike Omaha or even Saint Louis, San Diego was quite a new and surprising experience. The weather was amazing, even for January, and it made Heinrich dread returning to Omaha all the more. It was also unlike any city Heinrich had ever visited, due in large part to the presence of the Japanese Naval Base located there. San Diego was a fusion of America and Japan. The neon signs on the buildings were written in both Japanese and English. Japanese eateries were as common as American ones (and he hadn’t seen a single Uncle Willies in his admittedly limited time in the city). The Japanese Consul in San Diego, Norio Hokama, was a middle-aged man, slightly greying at the temples, and taller than the average man from his country. He had greeted them at the airport and was now riding with Heinrich and his boss and their assistants in a limousine, giving a tour. Technically speaking, San Diego was just as much a part of the United States as Saint Louis. The reality of the situation was another matter. The entire city, along with a rather large ring of land surrounding it, was considered a special military district, and the Japanese had special jurisdiction. While locals retained their American citizenship, the city largely functioned as a Japanese colonial holding. Heinrich was fairly certain he saw the red-disk-on-white flag of the Japanese Empire more often than the Stars and Stripes since they’d arrived.

From the airport, they headed down Harbor Drive, and off to the right, they could see San Diego Harbor and all of the civilian and military ships that were going too and fro and also at anchor. There was constant activity. Before long, the small motorcade arrived at the Japanese Consulate, an impressive fifteen-story building built in the neo-traditional style popular in Japan, all glass and steel and mimicking an ancient pagoda. Unlike the more modest building in Omaha that housed the Japanese Embassy, the consulate in San Diego was all about power projection and reminding the locals of who really held power. Japanese soldiers in khaki uniforms came to attention as the entourage pulled into the compound. Heinrich and the rest of the German and American officials were quickly ushered inside. The main entry hall was a grand three-story atrium, decked out for the arrival of the delegation in both Japanese and German flags. At the far end of the hall was the golden chrysanthemum disk of the Japanese Emperor, and portraits of Emperor Akihito and his bride on either side. Heinrich noted that the photographs were at least a decade old. The aging ruler of the Japanese Empire was 86 years old, and there was a building rumor that he may abdicate in the near future.

The meeting with the consul and the senior staff from the naval base took place the next morning, in a grand conference room near the top of the consulate building, with a commanding view of the harbor and the Pacific Ocean beyond. The crux of the conversation was not all that different than what had occurred in Saint Louis: the cost of the occupation. There were some in the Reich that wondered whether or not Japan could share a greater cost, as a way to counterbalance a second draw-down in German forces. Heinrich favored this idea, as much as he could, but wasn’t sure the higher-ups could really stomach that. America was the Reich’s, not Japan’s.

Hokama sounded skeptical about such an idea, at any rate. “The imperial government is looking at similar draw-downs in occupied areas. There are nearly 60,000 soldiers, sailors, and pilots here in San Diego, and His Imperial Majesty, his son the Crown Prince, and senior government ministers all wish to reduce this in the coming years. Increasing our presence here is not possible.”

Heinrich tried not to make a face of disappointment. If Japan was wanting to draw-down too, the powers that be in the Wehrmacht would not want to do so as well.
“Are you not worried that such a draw-down will strengthen the United States?” This question came from Altenburg.

“It could be that such a thing might occur. But have you not spent the last half-century remaking America in your own image? Could America now be an ally, as Senator Pembrook and his allies propose?” Hokama gestured to the Americans at the table. Pembrook nodded at the consul, and then spoke up.

“That is exactly our hope, Consul Hokama. America is a different nation than it was in 1971. We can be a partner with the Reich, not an enemy.”

Altenburg did not look fully convinced, and neither was Henrich. Maybe if the FJP was totally in charge, the idea would sound more realistic. As it was, with the FJP poised to be out of power, Henrich worried that the new political movements might want to have America try and supplant the Reich. And no matter how he felt about that privately, as a Jew, his professional side knew that that was all too likely to lead to a devastating war.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[traveller76]

I see the US becoming more Finlandized with restriction on the size of its military.

 

[MaxGerke01]

So to clarify are the names you skip names that you will get back to and still cover or are they names you wont be covering and are open for anyone interested to do so ? BTW what is the current relationship between Germany and Japan -friends ,enemies or frenemies ?

 

[Eckener]

I see the US becoming more Finlandized with restriction on the size of its military.

"More Finlandized"? I'm not sure that I follow your meaning there.

So to clarify are the names you skip names that you will get back to and still cover or are they names you wont be covering and are open for anyone interested to do so ? BTW what is the current relationship between Germany and Japan -friends ,enemies or frenemies ?

The names I skipped were ones I wasn't as familiar with generally. My plan had been to go back and do them eventually, but if you or someone else wants to tackle them, I'm not opposed. If something sounds way off I might give suggested changes but otherwise go right ahead if you'd like.

I would say that Germany and Japan are frenemies. Turtledove did not go the route that happened in MITHC, where Japan was woefully behind the Reich. It is mentioned quite clearly in Presence that Germany could strike Japan with missiles and bring the empire to its knees, but if it did, Japan could do the same to Germany. I would imagine a scenario of mutual respect and mild-distrust. Friendlier than the OTL cold war between the Soviet Union and the rest, but definitely not best buddies.

 

[traveller76]

"More Finlandized"? I'm not sure that I follow your meaning there.

Basically the Reich and Japan continue to reduce the number the troops except for a skeleton force. The US is allowed to increase the number of troops and paramilitary forces but cannot have some heavier weapon systems.

 

[MaxGerke01]

"More Finlandized"? I'm not sure that I follow your meaning there.



The names I skipped were ones I wasn't as familiar with generally. My plan had been to go back and do them eventually, but if you or someone else wants to tackle them, I'm not opposed. If something sounds way off I might give suggested changes but otherwise go right ahead if you'd like.

I would say that Germany and Japan are frenemies. Turtledove did not go the route that happened in MITHC, where Japan was woefully behind the Reich. It is mentioned quite clearly in Presence that Germany could strike Japan with missiles and bring the empire to its knees, but if it did, Japan could do the same to Germany. I would imagine a scenario of mutual respect and mild-distrust. Friendlier than the OTL cold war between the Soviet Union and the rest, but definitely not best buddies.

I definitely wanted you to have first crack at the names just want to be sure you were interested in all of them. I guess what Im wondering about is that based on events in the timeline it seems that at one point between WW2 and the present the Reich and Japan seem to have been .much closer with the Reich nuking Sydney for Japan in WW3 and allowing them to establish the base in San Diego (and take Alaska and Hawaii ?) Why was the Reich so generous with them unless they really were friends-as they were on the paper of the Axis pact OTL ?