Hail, Britannia
- Thread starter LeinadB93
- Start date
Oh, so it's the same as it was before, just with different names.
100 pages in two and a half years (not even counting the 2 years before this thread was created), 168 canon (threadmarked) material, and a record-breaking creativity from @LeinadB93. I think we can clap to this thread reaching a rare threshold of dedication for a single-topic thread!
It’d be nice to see an ethnic map of the federation, I believe there was one about North America but I don’t remember ther being one about the rest of the Empire (Australia, Westralia, New Zealand). And also, do the inhabitants of Northern Ireland see themselves as more British or Irish ITL?
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
Yes, as @Analytical Engine correctly assumes that is the line of descent from Queen Isabel II. Just made some changes to the names of the monarchs, to create a more distinctive Cuban monarchy.
Yes it is.
The region of Ararat, an autonomous Jewish-majority region in northern Westralia.
Thanks
Oh yes I have, there are a couple of bits down just pending write-ups. Is there one in particular you'd like to know more about?
Why thank you
I've never attempted an ethnic map of the Empire. The closest is a language map.
WRT Northern Ireland, the thing is ITTL the British identity is an overarching pluricontinental identity, of which English, Scottish, Irish, Canadian, Virginian etc. national identities are a part. So you can be Irish and British.
Map of the Kitari Confederation
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
Here's something I've threw together today. A return back to Africa which has been neglected of late.
This is a locator map of the Lands of the Kitari Confederation, more commonly known as Kitara. It's very much a first draft, and will be altered and brought in line with the other maps I've done for Texas and Canada, but it was a challenge I'd set myself today to either create this or do a Vanuatu election...
Comments and questions are welcome. Also note the new flag, which blends pan-African colours with the shield and crane from OTL Uganda. I quite like it, and I think it is distinctive enough.
This is a locator map of the Lands of the Kitari Confederation, more commonly known as Kitara. It's very much a first draft, and will be altered and brought in line with the other maps I've done for Texas and Canada, but it was a challenge I'd set myself today to either create this or do a Vanuatu election...
Comments and questions are welcome. Also note the new flag, which blends pan-African colours with the shield and crane from OTL Uganda. I quite like it, and I think it is distinctive enough.
Last edited:
Thanks
Oh yes I have, there are a couple of bits down just pending write-ups. Is there one in particular you'd like to know more about?
I'm quite interested in the Congo equivalent, since i'm assuming the Manikongo are still in charge down there
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
I'm quite interested in the Congo equivalent, since i'm assuming the Manikongo are still in charge down there
Oh the Kongo is very interesting ITTL, but I still need to do a lot of research on the region. If I can I'll bash together a list of heads of state of the country and maybe a current wikibox for the monarch.
I've planned the history in broad strokes though. The country falls under French control rather than Portugal, and with Belgium not a colonial power, is able to expand inwards under French suzerainty. In 1857 there's the first effort at some sort of centralised governing document, formalising a system of succession to the throne. In 1882 the countyr formally becomes a French protectorate, lasting until 1958. In 1965 the monarchy is overthrown and replaced with a Soviet-aligned people's republic, which lasts to 1997, when democracy and the monarchy is restored.
Yes and no. I modelled Kitara off Malaysia (in terms of a federation of monarchies and republics) and Switzerland. The idea is the African Great Lakes region falls under British control as protectorates, mainly serving to link Rhodesia (modern Katanga, Zambia and Zimbabwe Rhodesia) with the settler colonies in Kenya and up through Equatoria to Nubia and Egypt. When they gain independence the various "lands" come to together to form a federal state, preserving the local structures (parliamentary monarchies or republics) under a type of executive presidential parliamentary republic (like the OTL South African presidential election system).
Last edited:
Annobon [Special Territory of the Netherlands]
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
A little something looking at one of the smaller differences to OTL. Nothing major here, just a fun infobox and write up to put together.
Annobon (Annobonese: Ambô) is an island territory in the Gulf of Guinea, part of the Atlantic Ocean, consisting of the island of Annobon and its associated islets along the Cameroon line, about 350 km (220 mi) west of the Kongolese coast and 180 km (110 mi) southwest of the Portuguese region of São Tomé and Príncipe. The island has an area of 17 square kilometres (6.6 sq mi), with a population of about 5,500, mostly of mixed Iberian and Angolan descent, and a density of 308 inhabitants per square kilometre. A majority of the population are Syncretic Catholics, and although Dutch is the official language of government, the island's main language is a Portuguese creole known as the Annobonese language.
The island was discovered by the Portuguese on 1 January 1473, from which its name is derived ("Ano-Bom" is Portuguese for "Good Year"). It was apparently uninhabited until colonised under the Portuguese from 1474, primarily by Africans from Angola via São Tomé Island, who are considered the first members of Annobonese society. During the 16th century, intermarriage between slaves and Iberians gave rise to the first generations of Annobonese, the development of a distinct identity, and the emergence of the creolised Annobonese language. Under the 1778 Treaty of El Pardo, the island was ceded from Portugal to Spain in return for recognition of territories in Portuguese Brazil west of the line established by the Treaty of Tordesillas.
Hostility from the island's populace meant that Spanish sovereignty was ephemeral and never actually enforced, and the island was effectively semi-autonomous, although nominally Spanish territory. During the Napoleonic Wars, the island was seized by the British Royal Navy in 1797, and Spain surrendered control of the island under the 1802 Treaty of Amiens. The British nominally controlled the island, but did little to develop the territory, except as a way-point on the route to the Cape and India. In 1844, they ceded the island to the Dutch in exchange for concessions along the Gold Coast, and the territory was attached to the colony of Dutch Angola. Under the Dutch, the island was developed as a port for vessels to obtain water and fresh provisions, owing to the island's safe harbour and abundant agricultural industry. No widespread European settlement took place, due to the more attractive opportunities in Dutch Angola, North America and Southern Africa. During the Second World War, the island remained under the control of the Dutch government-in-exile and was an important base for Allied naval forces.
Annobon became an integral territory of the Netherlands in 1954 when the modern charter was adopted and the colony of Dutch Angola became a constituent country, although Annobon was classified as an "overseas territory" of Angola. But in 1976, when Angola voted for independence, the people of Annobon voted to remain within the Netherlands. The island council opted to become a special territory of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in 2003, with the same powers as a Dutch province in the European Netherlands. The territory is part of the European Union and the Eurozone, and is entitled to vote in Dutch national elections and European elections. Its modern economy is centred around maritime trade, tourism, agriculture and green energy, with the island becoming one of the first territories on the planet to get more than 50% of its electricity from renewable sources.
The island was discovered by the Portuguese on 1 January 1473, from which its name is derived ("Ano-Bom" is Portuguese for "Good Year"). It was apparently uninhabited until colonised under the Portuguese from 1474, primarily by Africans from Angola via São Tomé Island, who are considered the first members of Annobonese society. During the 16th century, intermarriage between slaves and Iberians gave rise to the first generations of Annobonese, the development of a distinct identity, and the emergence of the creolised Annobonese language. Under the 1778 Treaty of El Pardo, the island was ceded from Portugal to Spain in return for recognition of territories in Portuguese Brazil west of the line established by the Treaty of Tordesillas.
Hostility from the island's populace meant that Spanish sovereignty was ephemeral and never actually enforced, and the island was effectively semi-autonomous, although nominally Spanish territory. During the Napoleonic Wars, the island was seized by the British Royal Navy in 1797, and Spain surrendered control of the island under the 1802 Treaty of Amiens. The British nominally controlled the island, but did little to develop the territory, except as a way-point on the route to the Cape and India. In 1844, they ceded the island to the Dutch in exchange for concessions along the Gold Coast, and the territory was attached to the colony of Dutch Angola. Under the Dutch, the island was developed as a port for vessels to obtain water and fresh provisions, owing to the island's safe harbour and abundant agricultural industry. No widespread European settlement took place, due to the more attractive opportunities in Dutch Angola, North America and Southern Africa. During the Second World War, the island remained under the control of the Dutch government-in-exile and was an important base for Allied naval forces.
Annobon became an integral territory of the Netherlands in 1954 when the modern charter was adopted and the colony of Dutch Angola became a constituent country, although Annobon was classified as an "overseas territory" of Angola. But in 1976, when Angola voted for independence, the people of Annobon voted to remain within the Netherlands. The island council opted to become a special territory of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in 2003, with the same powers as a Dutch province in the European Netherlands. The territory is part of the European Union and the Eurozone, and is entitled to vote in Dutch national elections and European elections. Its modern economy is centred around maritime trade, tourism, agriculture and green energy, with the island becoming one of the first territories on the planet to get more than 50% of its electricity from renewable sources.
Last edited:
I’m quite interested in how Luxembourg is in this timeline. (I live there) I’d imagine it’s quite similar. When did they gain independence and when did their personal union with the Netherlands end? I’m sorry if this doesn’t interest other people.
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
I don't have a wikibox for it yet, as I'm still in the process of retconning and recalculating to give country rankings etc. But if there is anything specific you want to know, just ask
On the world map it's the state just north of Brazilian Benguela and south of the Kongo. It was taken from the Portuguese by the Dutch, although they lost some of the northern parts to the Kongo over the centuries. It gained independence in 1976 as the Co-operative Republic of Angola - a socialist republic modelled on OTL Guyana.
Belgium is getting looked at in greater detail, but broadly Luxembourg emerges and exists as it does IOTL. Although they may retain the Arelerland / Land of Arlon.
LeinadB93
Monthly Donor
As I said, I am in the process of retconning and updating a lot of the old material (while continuing to create new content of course!).
One of the issues I have encountered is that, before I can accurately update the country statistics spreadsheet, I need to decided whether some of the randoms ideas I have drawn up will fit into this timeline.
As with previous concepts, like Vietnam and Central Italy, I am appealing to you to decide whether these changes became canon. I would also like to thank those on the Discord server for listening to my thoughts, particularly about Belgium.
As always, comments and questions are always welcome
Burma / Myanmar
The idea here is that Britain, for whatever reason, is unable to effectively occupy the interior - instead establishing it as a protectorate similar to the Princely states of India. Despite popular sentiment for unification, the two nations gain independence from Britain, with the Union of Burma along the coast, and the Kingdom of Myanmar in the interior, and have remained independent ever since. Myanmar is probably quite similar to OTL Burma/Thailand, with a strong military, relatively weak democratic systems and a ceremonial monarch.
My proposal here is some slight changes to the colonial divisions of the island. After the First World War, instead of Britain gaining German New Guinea it passes to Japan. Britain ITTL gains big chunks of German Africa plus Samoa, and Japan really wanted territorial gains given it's stalemate with China. Over the decades, Japan pursues a policy of Japanization, including the settling of Japanese colonists and many natives being forcible removed or fleeing to British Papua, resulting in a majority East Asian territory.
In the modern day:
"With Belgium, it was always very much as OTL. So I've been going through some thoughts, with input from a couple of people on the Discord server. See below:
In the modern day:
of course!).One of the issues I have encountered is that, before I can accurately update the country statistics spreadsheet, I need to decided whether some of the randoms ideas I have drawn up will fit into this timeline.
As with previous concepts, like Vietnam and Central Italy, I am appealing to you to decide whether these changes became canon. I would also like to thank those on the Discord server for listening to my thoughts, particularly about Belgium.
As always, comments and questions are always welcome
Burma / Myanmar
The idea here is that Britain, for whatever reason, is unable to effectively occupy the interior - instead establishing it as a protectorate similar to the Princely states of India. Despite popular sentiment for unification, the two nations gain independence from Britain, with the Union of Burma along the coast, and the Kingdom of Myanmar in the interior, and have remained independent ever since. Myanmar is probably quite similar to OTL Burma/Thailand, with a strong military, relatively weak democratic systems and a ceremonial monarch.
My proposal here is some slight changes to the colonial divisions of the island. After the First World War, instead of Britain gaining German New Guinea it passes to Japan. Britain ITTL gains big chunks of German Africa plus Samoa, and Japan really wanted territorial gains given it's stalemate with China. Over the decades, Japan pursues a policy of Japanization, including the settling of Japanese colonists and many natives being forcible removed or fleeing to British Papua, resulting in a majority East Asian territory.
In the modern day:
Independent State of Irian New Guinea - a independent realm under the Dutch Crown.
Commonwealth of Papua - a Commonwealth realm, though substantially more developed than OTL.
State of Shinan - an Asian-style constitutional monarchy under a branch of the Japanese Imperial Family. 48% Japanese, 27% Chinese and 25% Melaneisan.
Enkaido Prefecture - Japan's southernmost prefecture, 80% ethnic Japanese.
"With Belgium, it was always very much as OTL. So I've been going through some thoughts, with input from a couple of people on the Discord server. See below:
WRT Belgium - perhaps France is less understanding about being unable to put the Duke of Nemours on the Belgian throne. When TTL's Ten Day's Campaign occurs, the Belgians seek French assistance, but they refuse. The Dutch, under Willem, Prince of Orange, occupy Flanders, Antwerp and Limburg, encamping at Leuven outside Brussels.
1830s; This crisis, coupled with the economic pressure of the loss of overseas of trade, triggers unrest in Wallonia - particularly directed against the government of Leopold I in Brussels. Poor harvests in Flanders lead to the Dutch offering aid, giving rise to pro-Dutch sentiment. Leopold I attempts to exert more monarchical power, particular around control of the military and in religious affairs, favouring liberals and angering Catholics in Wallonia. This anger bubbles over and results in the Walloon Revolt against the Belgian government, leading to the French intervening and occupying Hainaut, Liege, Namur, Luxembourg and Liege.
The 1839 Treaty of London recognises the territorial divisions of the status quo as it exists in Belgium. The duchies of Flanders and Limburg are created and granted to Willem, Prince of Orange. They remain semi-separate territories until the 1867 Treaty of London, confirms their status as integral Dutch territory - in the modern day they are constituent countries.
Luxembourg emerges as OTL. France seeks to annex the "occupied" territories of Wallonia, however as in OTL, the Great Powers oppose France acquiring any territory from Belgium.
And then things get vague... Eupen-Malmedy (ITTL retained by the Netherlands rather than Prussia) is created as a principality? It follows a similar history of Luxembourg, eventually transforms into Amikejo?
Wallonia established? France asserts historic claims to Hainaut, but Great Powers having none of it. Compromise with French protectorate over Hainaut (under cadet royal branch). Wallonia guaranteed neutrality under a German-descended monarch. Belgium dissolved and restricted to Brabant under Leopold I.
Which leaves Brabant... I imagine being a rump Belgian state claiming the rest until reapproachment in the 1870s (seeing the Franco-Prussian War almost spill over into the Low Countries) Perhaps Leopold, now only ruling a smaller centralised state, favours the liberals more, maybe even trying to amass more political power. Could he be forced to abdicate in favour of his teenage heir in the 1848 revolutions?
1830s; This crisis, coupled with the economic pressure of the loss of overseas of trade, triggers unrest in Wallonia - particularly directed against the government of Leopold I in Brussels. Poor harvests in Flanders lead to the Dutch offering aid, giving rise to pro-Dutch sentiment. Leopold I attempts to exert more monarchical power, particular around control of the military and in religious affairs, favouring liberals and angering Catholics in Wallonia. This anger bubbles over and results in the Walloon Revolt against the Belgian government, leading to the French intervening and occupying Hainaut, Liege, Namur, Luxembourg and Liege.
The 1839 Treaty of London recognises the territorial divisions of the status quo as it exists in Belgium. The duchies of Flanders and Limburg are created and granted to Willem, Prince of Orange. They remain semi-separate territories until the 1867 Treaty of London, confirms their status as integral Dutch territory - in the modern day they are constituent countries.
Luxembourg emerges as OTL. France seeks to annex the "occupied" territories of Wallonia, however as in OTL, the Great Powers oppose France acquiring any territory from Belgium.
And then things get vague... Eupen-Malmedy (ITTL retained by the Netherlands rather than Prussia) is created as a principality? It follows a similar history of Luxembourg, eventually transforms into Amikejo?
The Leiningens, having been promised the Walloon throne by Prussia, are compensated with Eupen-Malmedy (their British connections help), and reminiscent to OTL, has a close relationship with Prussia. Eupen-Malmedy maintains its relations with both the Netherlands and Prussia, but has an economic history related to Moresnet (the mine being exhaused in 1885 OTL) that ends up resulting in socialist revolution, which overthrows the monarchy?
The next few years for Eupen-Malmedy ends up chaotic under the newly established republic, and eventually results in the return of the monarchy (or at least, a weird variant of it?) and the transformation into Amikejo in the 1900s?
Wallonia established? France asserts historic claims to Hainaut, but Great Powers having none of it. Compromise with French protectorate over Hainaut (under cadet royal branch). Wallonia guaranteed neutrality under a German-descended monarch. Belgium dissolved and restricted to Brabant under Leopold I.
Now with Wallonia and Hainaut - my thinking is that the division is very much artificially imposed by the Great Powers to prevent France making any gains. Now Wallonia might gradually settle into neutrality, seeing a Walloon revival, but Hainault I imagine being quite vehemently French. The Duke of Nemours gets Wallonia, while the Arenbergs are installed in Hainaut.
However, when the 1848 Revolutions break out, the French monarchy collapses as OTL. TTL's Belgian legion attempts to begin a revolution in the Belgian states, but fails. Follow this with France's loss to Prussia, there is reduced appetite for unification. Coupled with improved economic relations with Brabant and the Netherlands, this pulls Hainaut gradually out the French sphere (for now). By the time reunification is next a viable option its 1919, and Hainaut has had nearly 80 years developing its own identity. Hainaut had the coal industry, which would have given it significant economic power itself, especially providing the resources for the industrial revolution in Wallonia. I can’t see any power allowing another to control that resource. Actually a lot of Belgium's early industry was in Liege and along the Meuse, although coal mining was prominent in the Borinage in Hainaut. So Wallonia would still be economically viable without Hainaut, it is has it's own substantial coal fields and industrial centre ...the continental Industrial Revolution may well be slower to take off however.
The Great Powers, perhaps now realising the importance of coal and the abundant resources in the region, don't like the idea of a French-aligned state controlling both Wallonia and Hainaut. France had reasserted a claim to Hainaut form the historic county, and now the Great Powers use that against them by using this historical pretence to separate Hainaut from Wallonia. The Arenbergs, a Belgian noble family with ties to Hainaut, are made king there, while in Wallonia the Duke of Nemours gets the throne.
Which leaves Brabant... I imagine being a rump Belgian state claiming the rest until reapproachment in the 1870s (seeing the Franco-Prussian War almost spill over into the Low Countries) Perhaps Leopold, now only ruling a smaller centralised state, favours the liberals more, maybe even trying to amass more political power. Could he be forced to abdicate in favour of his teenage heir in the 1848 revolutions?
In the modern day:
Flanders and Limburg - constituent countries of the Netherlands.
Kingdom of Brabant - a mixed Dutch/French state under Leopold V of the House of Laeken (OTL Philippe of Belgium).
Kingdom of Hainaut - a small French-speaking state under Erik II of the House of Arenberg, very much a French satellite.
Kingdom of Wallonia - majority of the population speak Walloon, French-aligned under Ferdinand II of the House of Orleans-Nemours.
Grand Duchy of Luxembourg - as OTL but retains the Land of Arlon.
Principality of Amikejo - the world's only Esperanto-speaking state, a principality under the House of Leiningen.
As I said, I am in the process of retconning and updating a lot of the old material (while continuing to create new content
One of the issues I have encountered is that, before I can accurately update the country statistics spreadsheet, I need to decided whether some of the randoms ideas I have drawn up will fit into this timeline.
As with previous concepts, like Vietnam and Central Italy, I am appealing to you to decide whether these changes became canon. I would also like to thank those on the Discord server for listening to my thoughts, particularly about Belgium.
As always, comments and questions are always welcome
Burma / Myanmar
The idea here is that Britain, for whatever reason, is unable to effectively occupy the interior - instead establishing it as a protectorate similar to the Princely states of India. Despite popular sentiment for unification, the two nations gain independence from Britain, with the Union of Burma along the coast, and the Kingdom of Myanmar in the interior, and have remained independent ever since. Myanmar is probably quite similar to OTL Burma/Thailand, with a strong military, relatively weak democratic systems and a ceremonial monarch.
I wholeheartedly support the two Burmas, it is something I've always thought would add an interesting change to an alternate world and would love to see your take on it.