"What Madness Is This?" Vol. II: The Pinnacle Future

[Coolio]

Do you think that it's possible that the Union might have an over population problem as Abortion will never be legal not even backdoor abortion as for generations they have been convinced that America needs more soldiers and we need everyone to contribute and the AFC would be telling all of the betters of society to keep pumping them out at nutso rates

like possibly 12 child per better family with Oswald's sexual movement and while they have a hemesphere of land and resources it's going to be filled up real fast especially as there's no where else for the union to really expand to.

 

[LostInNewDelhi]

Do you think that it's possible that the Union might have an over population problem as Abortion will never be legal not even backdoor abortion as for generations they have been convinced that America needs more soldiers and we need everyone to contribute and the AFC would be telling all of the betters of society to keep pumping them out at nutso rates

like possibly 12 child per better family with Oswald's sexual movement and while they have a hemesphere of land and resources it's going to be filled up real fast especially as there's no where else for the union to really expand to.

Higher birth rate compensated by lower immigration, and Canada is deceptively big. I'm also sure Americans can go overseas to League of Nations member states. Any Oswaldine sexual revolution is probably also going to be, like the OTL one, about having more sex, not more kids.

 

[Not Plato]

Do you think that it's possible that the Union might have an over population problem as Abortion will never be legal not even backdoor abortion as for generations they have been convinced that America needs more soldiers and we need everyone to contribute and the AFC would be telling all of the betters of society to keep pumping them out at nutso rates

like possibly 12 child per better family with Oswald's sexual movement and while they have a hemesphere of land and resources it's going to be filled up real fast especially as there's no where else for the union to really expand to.

Well, abortion wasn’t legalized across America IOTL until the 70’s, and much of the interior is still rural today. And since the RU/NUSA controls most, if not all, of the Americas, they have more than enough room to put extra Pinnacle Men.

And plus, do you really believe that they’d just stop once they’ve conquered the Americas?

 

[Murica1776]

Well, abortion wasn’t legalized across America IOTL until the 70’s, and much of the interior is still rural today. And since the RU/NUSA controls most, if not all, of the Americas, they have more than enough room to put extra Pinnacle Men.

And plus, do you really believe that they’d just stop once they’ve conquered the Americas?

I imagine they're probably looking at Africa next. Especially breaking off pieces of Mittleafrika when it inevitably collapses or at least shrinks.

 

[Mooze17]

Higher birth rate compensated by lower immigration, and Canada is deceptively big. I'm also sure Americans can go overseas to League of Nations member states. Any Oswaldine sexual revolution is probably also going to be, like the OTL one, about having more sex, not more kids.

Yeah but the Union has always had a focus on having lots of kids from what I remember, so why would that change? It would also reflect some of the characteristics of real fascist states like Nazi Germany, which also tried too make women have as many children as possible. Canada may be big, but the attractive to move to, nice to live in parts of it where most people would want too live aren't that huge. Sure, people would be perfectly willing to move too places like Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta, but how many are going too want too settle in Nunavat or the North-West territories? Although I’m sure the Union is doing it’s best too ensure the extermination of all the Infee’s in those regions, they probably don’t have much presence in the far northern, practically Arctic parts of Canada apart from oil drilling and resource exploitation, which could mostly be run by the clans, and groups of soldiers and ORRA hunting down any remaining infees, and these regions make up a huge portion of the vast expanse of Canada. There is a good reason 90% of the population lives within 100 miles of the US border, after all. Also, I doubt most people are willing too move too do those tough jobs to exploit those recourses in northern Canada, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of the population is made of infees and political prisoners imported from the rest of the union or captured from among the few remaining locals, overseen by brutal Clan hired mercenaries and working themselves too death (or at the very least in very dangerous, , brutal, and unethical conditions) to extract resources and oil.

Its probably the same thing in Greenland as well, especially since the majority of its population is Inuit (although the Protestant Danish population will probobly be assimilated or forcibly moved too other parts of the Union, since they are betters, although it’s also entirely possible they are just exterminated so the RU can exploit the area more easily and ravage its ecosystem without the locals protesting or being able too do anything about it, and justifying it by claiming they are “irrevocably tainted by their intermixing and bastardization of their pinnacle genes with the red infee devils” and thus inferiors, did too the large mixed danish Inuit population on the island.

 

[Coolio]

Higher birth rate compensated by lower immigration, and Canada is deceptively big. I'm also sure Americans can go overseas to League of Nations member states. Any Oswaldine sexual revolution is probably also going to be, like the OTL one, about having more sex, not more kids.

I was under the impression that most of Canada was mostly Arctic great for resources bad for human development and while the sex revolution may just be about more sex than kids sex usually equals baby's

Well, abortion wasn’t legalized across America IOTL until the 70’s, and much of the interior is still rural today. And since the RU/NUSA controls most, if not all, of the Americas, they have more than enough room to put extra Pinnacle Men.

And plus, do you really believe that they’d just stop once they’ve conquered the Americas?

They may not have a choice as there is a chance that Russia or Europe could nuke America if they keep expanding so far.
As for abortion your right as even if abortion never happens in the Ru that is at most just around 60 people by presant day in the NUSA which while useful doesn't fill up the continent even with more baby's due to a never ending baby boom with Oswald's sexual orgy movement that is at most another 200 to 300 million so assuming that would be around 600 million by the year 2020 so never mind about the over population they still have a long way to go

 

[HeX]

could somone give link to theses?

Here's the best one:

A More Perfect Union: An Alternate History of the Land of the Free

A MORE PERFECT UNION An Alternate History of the Land of the Free -------------------------------- "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the...

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[Guardonion]

Doesn't America have loads of empty space on it's, OTL, with 300M people no less. With the way things are this timeline, it will be a long time before the NUSA is going to need more living space.

 

[Murica1776]

Alright, here's my perspective:

The Union as of 1937 had a population of around 150 million Pinnacle People. As near as I can tell, the rough population of all of the Americas I expect the Union to have truly solid control over (Continental US minus Carolina, Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, most of the Caribbean, Central America, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, and Peru) have a combined OTL current day population of 680 million. Let's shave off 80 million off that carrying capacity because of higher living standards and environmental damage.

The Union has enough carrying capacity to sustain around 600 million people just in these territories. Hell, it might actually be higher because NUSA won't be exporting food the way the OTL USA does. The OTL USA is entirely food self-sufficient and produces 1/5th of the world's poultry, among other such statistics. However, sticking with a strict 600 million person limit, if NUSA adds the equivalent of 150 million people every 15 years (which would be utterly crazy) they have 45 years before things get rough. During which time they could pacify and partially heal Brazil, which again would increase the carrying capacity by a minimum of 150 million (that number is assuming extreme environmental degradation) and could then make inroads into Chile and Argentina. At which point, they can start overrunning Africa and maybe even Asia, alongside their less ravenous allies.

 

[Mooze17]

Alright, here's my perspective:

The Union as of 1937 had a population of around 150 million Pinnacle People. As near as I can tell, the rough population of all of the Americas I expect the Union to have truly solid control over (Continental US minus Carolina, Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, most of the Caribbean, Central America, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, and Peru) have a combined OTL current day population of 680 million. Let's shave off 80 million off that carrying capacity because of higher living standards and environmental damage.

The Union has enough carrying capacity to sustain around 600 million people just in these territories. Hell, it might actually be higher because NUSA won't be exporting food the way the OTL USA does. The OTL USA is entirely food self-sufficient and produces 1/5th of the world's poultry, among other such statistics. However, sticking with a strict 600 million person limit, if NUSA adds the equivalent of 150 million people every 15 years (which would be utterly crazy) they have 45 years before things get rough. During which time they could pacify and partially heal Brazil, which again would increase the carrying capacity by a minimum of 150 million (that number is assuming extreme environmental degradation) and could then make inroads into Chile and Argentina. At which point, they can start overrunning Africa and maybe even Asia, alongside their less ravenous allies.

Also adding the OTL populations of Mexico, the latin parts of the Carribean (the majority of it), Central America, Columbia, Peru, and Venezuela isn't really reasonable in this case due too the mass immolation of those territories, which we all know would be taking place, and the fact the union definetly wouldn't be integrating the local populations in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Coolio]

Also adding the OTL populations of Mexico, the latin parts of the Carribean (the majority of it), Central America, Columbia, Peru, and Venezuela isn't really reasonable in this case due too the mass immolation of those territories, which we all know would be taking place, and the fact the union definetly wouldn't be integrating the local populations in any way, shape, or form.

This is true but you have to remember how fast the union can populate areas I wouldn't be surprised if they double their population every 18 or so years thus being able to reach 600 million in no time potentially even higher with another 60 or so million with no abortion laws ever being passed so around 660 by 1991 and around 810 million by 2020 assuming no horrific nuclear civil war

 

[traveller76]

Let us not forget the war. The Union may be more willing to throw more troops at a problem especially if it is the Redemption Legions. I would figure by the time Oswald is President that Birth Control and some family planning becomes acceptable.

 

[Murica1776]

Also adding the OTL populations of Mexico, the latin parts of the Carribean (the majority of it), Central America, Columbia, Peru, and Venezuela isn't really reasonable in this case due too the mass immolation of those territories, which we all know would be taking place, and the fact the union definetly wouldn't be integrating the local populations in any way, shape, or form.

That's the point. The Union ITTL has 150 million. The area which they occupy can hold up to 680 million people, after the Union murders all the natives. They're clearing everyone out, which means that they can use the area's full carrying capacity.

 

[Born in the USSA]

I imagine they're probably looking at Africa next. Especially breaking off pieces of Mittleafrika when it inevitably collapses or at least shrinks.

Actually I'm somewhat curious what's happening in the Europan colonies bordering Lincolnia. As was the case in the Southron nations before the Emancipation the natives in those colonies are no doubt low on the totem pole, with the likely exception of some sort of Catholic collaborator class, making the siren song of Fundamentalism very appealing to at least a segment of the population. Lincolnian Union when?

 

[Mooze17]

Actually I'm somewhat curious what's happening in the Europan colonies bordering Lincolnia. As was the case in the Southron nations before the Emancipation the natives in those colonies are no doubt low on the totem pole, with the likely exception of some sort of Catholic collaborator class, making the siren song of Fundamentalism very appealing to at least a segment of the population. Lincolnian Union when?

I mean the Union is most likely pretty damn overstretched and focused on absorbing and immolating all of its conquered territories, and although I have no doubt they will be trying too encourage rebellion among the native black population in the surrounding Europan colonies, there are also several major different factors that would have too be considered here that make this unlikely too succeed. For one thing, the majority of the North African territory that Europa controls is Muslim, and although there is no doubt a lot of pressure too convert by the Europans and many missionaries and such making people Catholic, these are still pretty damn important religious convictions which the Union would see as completely unacceptable too their worldview and which the natives would be extremely resistant too changing on the words of some random foriegner who most likely dosent even speak their languages and would see all of their own religious traditions as Satan worshiping infee rantings. For another thing, the Europans aren't stupid, they would have learned from what happened in the south, and harshly stamp out any fundamentalists in their colonies, and they wouldn't even have too do it themselves, if the local population found out that someone converted too a foreign religion of this nature and they don't have religious protection from the government who would rightfully view them as traitors and agents for the Union too cause unrest, and they find out pretty much anything about the actual nature of the religion, they would most likely take care of the problem for the government long before it would ever become a problem. And, finally, returning too the religious difference issues, their is one more fundamental trait that almost all of the black slaves had which none or almost none of the Euorpan colonized blacks would have, and which is what made the blacks acceptable and so easily convertible too fundamentalism anyway. They were, for the most part, Protestant blacks, due too slaves pretty much being forced too adopt Christianity as time went on and the efforts of certaing groups too reach out too them, and thus they were already the kind of people the Unions conversion efforts would focus on since, with the exception of the Japanese, the Union has never demonstrated any desire or ability too convert people who aren't already protestant too the fundamentalist AFC. They would most likely see the native blacks as infees, not pinnacle men like the African americans (which is probobly how they justify allying with Mittelafrika and Carolinas opression of the colonial blacks in their territory), and, finally, unlike with the conflict between southern states and the RU, the natives of French Africa have no reason whatsoever too believe that the Americans would treat them any better than the French do, and in fact they likely have a lot of evidence that they would treat them a lot worse. This is because the union not only maintains its own colony right next too them (lincolnia) but, if the RU is supposed too reflect the real life worst aspects of the OTL US, then I have no doubt that Lincolnia resembles colonial Liberia, but turned up by about 100 notches. In other words, its extremely unlikely the native people have any say whatsoever in happens in that territory and, although its incredibly likely that its run by blacks, its almost certain that those blacks are African American colonists or their descendants, not the native population. Considering how incredibly badly the Amero-Liberians treated the native population in the OTL country of Liberia, especially in the early years, and how incredibly contemptuously they viewed and treated the native population, Lincolnia is likely just as horrible, exploitive, and dangerous too the native population as any European Colony, and in fact its likely far, far worse.

 

[fionnex]

Speaking of Africa, since non pinnacle Europeans will have less options for emigration will this mean more go to north Africa? In otl they were a sizeable minority they could easily become a majority. Could there be an Irish comunity there?

 

[traveller76]

Speaking of Africa, since non pinnacle Europeans will have less options for emigration will this mean more go to north Africa? In otl they were a sizeable minority they could easily become a majority. Could there be an Irish comunity there?

I see the Europans sponsoring immigration with land grants for military veterans and corporations along with moving poorer citizens as reliable labor.

 

[AK47Productions]

Until Custer took power, I always kinda thought the AFC would declare the Moroccans "honorary Betters" or somesuch horseshit due to them being the first to recognize the original Union. Safe to say Im sure that ship has sailed.

 

[KolyenuKS]

Until Custer took power, I always kinda thought the AFC would declare the Moroccans "honorary Betters" or somesuch horseshit due to them being the first to recognize the original Union. Safe to say Im sure that ship has sailed.

they see blacks (I think only west africans though) as betters, so since Morocco was the first to recognize them, they probably have at least seen the ones who migrated from popeland as betters

 

[Darksider166]

Until Custer took power, I always kinda thought the AFC would declare the Moroccans "honorary Betters" or somesuch horseshit due to them being the first to recognize the original Union. Safe to say Im sure that ship has sailed.

Well, considering the Union wants to literally exterminate France and French people despite the fact that France literally aided and was integral to America's independence from Great Britain and yet is partnered with Britain (which under Gen. Drummond was responsible for their revanchism), it wouldn't really be a stretch then for America to turn its back on Morocco. American historiography ITTL is already so warped from actual history it hurts. They hold Ancient Greece, Egypt, and Rome in high regard while yet literally decrying their direct descendants as inferior (they probably say Greeks, Italians, and Egyptians have too much inferior arab and turkish blood in them, also Islam is clearly blasphemy).

I wouldn't be surprised if the RU paints French involvement in the Revolutionary War as a failed french plot to make America its puppet state and when the great pinnacle man that was Washington refused, the French schemed to impress American sailors and kill our diplomats while the US was weakened by Federalist Scheming. Or that Louis XVI was some secret pinnacle man that was trying to free France from popish tyranny but his attempts failed and the French Revolution was an unholy conspiracy of "Loomie-Popish Conniving" that led to Louis's downfall and established a blasphemous Atheist republic before popery was brought back under Napoleon.