The Twin Vipers: A TL of the Berlin-Moscow Axis

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I do think Spielberg type films about NKVD attrocities will be made in this universe, and perhaps a film akin to downfall showing Stalin's last days before the coup and the plotting and scheming of the plotters as well as the counter plotters (Beria
Stalin Rants Parodies anyone?

Will de communication occur?
Anti-communism isn't a formal policy in post-war Russia (at least after the occupation has wrapped up), the way de-nazifying Germany was. There's not really enough need for it - communist rule wasn't particularly popular among the masses, especially after the start of the war (contrast with Germany, where quality of life for a lot of Germans did improve 1933-39), and the new leadership is made up of people that have been opposing the Bolsheviks since WWI. Once the Republic has proven itself to be an actually good government, it doesn't take long for the Russian people to abandon their Soviet past, and all the imagery that went with it.

Here is the way I see it:

Himmler commited worse crimes.

But Beria was a worse person.

And both of them were complete and total pussies. Beria, as you know, whimpered like a dog when he found himself in the same position as his victims. Himmler had the nerve to lie about what happened in the death camps, in a desperate attempt to save his own skin.
I'd rather not get into "who was worse" debates. Both are massive jerks and both are reviled. Let's just leave it at that.

- BNC
 
So if I read your reply to a question earlier, while Russia is considerably better than OTL it takes time and it is still not quite western european in living standards? I did read it would become an agriculture exporter by the 60s, which I assume came from de collectivization, so at least agriculture will be much better than the disaster of collective farms of otl. I think another bright is the Wallies of this timeline won't destroy all the west of russia like the nazis did. And Stalin for his crimes left an industrialized and educated union, that would also likely be retained, while the five year plan didn't reach their goals, it still built a very modern industrial economy at breakneck speed and multiplied output. Same with Likbez and electrification. I don't think the new government would take those more positive aspects away. I think with the opening up of the economy, starting in the 60s and 70s when Russia makes a serious economic growth, certain western companies will go to Russia for investment and cheaper labor. Russian oil fields can also be exploited and create considerably wealth. Doubt the OTL "oligarchy" would form and I don't think like OTL too much of the wealth got unevenly given to certain regions like Moscow and Grozny.

You cited Australia I think as a sort of parallel to look at for the development of Russia?

Also would the fact the new government is made up of a lot of former whites, will a strong traditional cultural revival occur? I feel like a sort of orthodox centered "christian democracy" may be popular in the post war period.
Love this timeline.
 
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So if I read your reply to a question earlier, while Russia is considerably better than OTL it takes time and it is still not quite western european in living standards?
That's right.

I think with the opening up of the economy, starting in the 60s and 70s when Russia makes a serious economic growth, certain western companies will go to Russia for investment and cheaper labor.
Russia is opened up in 1946, however the lag to development comes from 1) a fair bit of the country did get bombed (Moscow and Leningrad in particular), which will need rebuilding and 2) transitioning from communist to capitalist takes time. There's no period of isolation once the Republic is formed (though external companies aren't exactly quick to jump in).

You cited Australia I think as a sort of parallel to look at for the development of Russia?
In the sense of how much of the country's wealth comes from primary resources, yes.

Also would the fact the new government is made up of a lot of former whites, will a strong traditional cultural revival occur? I feel like a sort of orthodox centered "christian democracy" may be popular in the post war period.
That's correct. Russia by the 2000s is one of the most religious countries in the world (although this is not state-enforced, nor is it close to 100% as in many Muslim countries OTL), and at least one of the major parties supports a lot of pro-faith policies - though not always 'pro-Christian' as there is a sizeable minority of Muslims particularly in Central Asia that they would like to receive votes from.

Love this timeline.
Thanks mate!

- BNC
 
I think new white coalition uniforms would be like a m1942 field uniform with a ROA style patch sewn on.
Unknown.jpeg

Unknown-1.jpeg

I could see though the cool peaked hats of the white army revived.
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The second one is probably more relevant given the darker color, though it will probably be an olive green cap
DcSbvG6W0AY8vG1.jpg

Ignore the old soviet soldier next to it.
Also, given the strong anti sovietism over of the Cossack community, as OTL many collaborated, TTL many will join the New White coalition, so probably that same field uniform and patch but a Cossack hat instead.
In terms of weapons, red army captures and a mix of western gear will do. It is likely the Soviet Union will use a pattered version of the MG42 and STG44 given the close ties, as shown by German use of Katyusha as well as sharing far more precious technologies such as German jets as well, so it is likely to counter STG44 in the late campaign used by soviets the M1 will become select fire forming a sort of early M14.
 
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Also, was vlasov a New White coalition figure?
Opportunism or misguided well intent of his otl defection can be debated, but he was no fascist and the Prague manifesto rejected anti semetism despite nazi pressure.
I figure the same reasons would make him defect to the new white coalition.
I think the Soviets as more red army defect will probably late war use a lot of NKVD on the front lines, as those men have NOTHING to look forward to when the regime falls.
I also think soviet forces will look a bit different given the German influence. Mosin Nagant and red army uniforms will still probably be standard, as will most weapons, but certain copies of German weapons would probably be produced. Given the fact they can co operate in jets and rockets, they certainly will in small arms. I can see a soviet version of the MG42 outright becoming the standard machine gun, as well as late war, production of STG44.
Camo smocks will also probably be used a lot late war as they are cheap to make and effective.
Post war Russia seems to have a pretty good history. Probably too religious for my personal life taste but it is considerably more democratic and developed than otl. Sure, it isn’t exactly Belgium, but development takes time.
Also, how will Stalin’s trial go? Will he appear unrepentant or feign remorse and beg for mercy as it ends.
Fate of NKVD post war?
 
Also, was vlasov a New White coalition figure?
I can see him becoming one, but without the propaganda boost he got from defending Moscow, he's not exactly a notable member.

I think the Soviets as more red army defect will probably late war use a lot of NKVD on the front lines, as those men have NOTHING to look forward to when the regime falls.
A lot of them fell in the battle of Leningrad, and most of the rest were used up in the final winter offensive outside Moscow.

I also think soviet forces will look a bit different given the German influence. Mosin Nagant and red army uniforms will still probably be standard, as will most weapons, but certain copies of German weapons would probably be produced. Given the fact they can co operate in jets and rockets, they certainly will in small arms. I can see a soviet version of the MG42 outright becoming the standard machine gun, as well as late war, production of STG44.
Camo smocks will also probably be used a lot late war as they are cheap to make and effective.
Agreed with all of the above.

Fate of NKVD post war?
Many members were attacked by Red Army folk or (in cities behind the lines) particularly angry citizens once it became clear that the USSR was going to lose. Once the Whites started running things again, surviving high-ranking NKVD members were shot or imprisoned, while lower ranking members were let to go free (although they have rather poor chances at employment post-war, unless they happen to know other communist sympathisers).
A large number of ex-members became a part of the attempted coup in 1950, and many were then shot dead by police forces.

Also, how will Stalin’s trial go? Will he appear unrepentant or feign remorse and beg for mercy as it ends.
He stayed silent for the overwhelming majority of the trial. Part of this was due to a nervous breakdown/shock due to the defeat (imagine the Barbarossa one, but lasting longer), the other part because he is convinced that it is a show trial and that nothing he says or does will matter.

- BNC
 
What became of Zhukov, Konev, Chuikov, Vasilevsky, Bagramyan, et al after the war?
I'm fairly sure at least one of them didn't survive the war (instead receiving a bullet-shaped gift from Stalin), but for the high-ranking generals that did make it to March 1946:
Many were tried for possible war crimes, particularly those who were known to be close to Stalin, served in Poland or against the Japanese, or were particularly fanatical communists. Due to the Red Army fighting a generally 'clean' war (or at least as close as one can get in WW2), many were found not guilty or received 5 or 10 year sentences. Of course, the real bastards were hanged or stuck in prison for much longer.
After the trials, most were retired out of the Army. A few that the Whites believed to be suitable politically were invited back, either as active members or to write training manuals. Others died of natural causes pretty soon afterwards.

What did happen to Molotov
20 years, and only managed to avoid a life sentence by proving that it was Stalin that had dictated the Soviet side of the M-R pact. (Plotting aggressive war being the main charge laid against him).

Malenkov and Suslov?
Life sentence and a date with the hangman respectively, for their roles in the atrocities in Poland.

- BNC
 
1952 Patton's Election Addendum
Something I've been meaning to make and post for a little while now is the electoral map for Patton's election in 1952:
1952.JPG

Despite the personal popularity of President Truman, after twenty years of continued Democratic government there was a growing desire for change among the American people. Political commentators, particularly after the Republicans won sweeping victories in the 1950 midterm elections, frequently labelled the upcoming 1952 election as 'unwinnable' for any Democratic candidate, especially after Truman announced that he would not run for a third term. As late as October 1951, the near-universal expectation was that the Republican National Convention would be choosing a president, not just a candidate.
When George Patton initially announced that he would run a campaign for the White House, few believed it would last very long. Patton had never appeared to strongly favour either party, and his policies could not be predicted now that there were no more Nazis or Communists to go to war with. His only notable contribution to the Democratic party had been a few post-war speeches supporting President Truman as the 'victorious President' in 1946, and when he retired three months to the day after the Soviet Union fell, many thought they had heard the last of the man that had dominated headlines for the second half of the war.
That choice to retire may have been a decisive factor in Patton's eventual win. General Eisenhower, Patton's superior during the war, ran a campaign for the Republican nomination in the 1952 election as well, but was continually hounded for "not bringing the boys back home" quickly enough for their liking. Patton, who had virtually nothing to do with the occupation before retirement, could claim victory in the war without fear of the backlash that came with the handling of the years that followed.
Nonetheless, Patton knew that he would be facing an uphill battle, even after he secured the Democratic nomination in a landslide. Robert S. Kerr of Oklahoma was chosen as his running mate, partly because of his personal popularity as a successful governor of Oklahoma but also because he could be a calming influence on Patton's dynamic personality (this would prove to be very beneficial during Patton's term in office). While Kerr managed the campaign from the shadows, Patton led from the front, and nowhere was this more obvious than Patton's pledge to visit every one of the forty-eight states before election day.
Patton's platform was one of four key promises. The first was to "Keep Things Going", intending to continue New Deal policies as they had existed under Roosevelt and Truman (and to the south, a promise to go no further on Truman's racial reforms). Second was to "Stay Strong", building America's military strength by encouraging unemployed people to seek careers in the armed services (a prospect that looked more appealing now that there was very little threat of war on the horizon). Third was "Open Government", whereby Patton would seek to make it easier for citizens to approach government services, and reducing the wide range of federal agencies to a smaller and more manageable number in the interests of accessibility. Finally, he promised to "Connect the Country" with a major road-building program, an idea he came up with after remembering the many times that poor-quality roads had slowed his forces down in Russia ("if you want progress in anything, you've got to have roads!").
His Republican opponents, Earl Warren and Harold Stassen, promised above all a change in policy, but their calm and orderly campaign was frequently attacked by Patton as "boring". Patton by contrast ran a very aggressive campaign, oftentimes announcing his appearances in states only days before they were set to occur to draw in the most attention, and his commitment to visit every state saw many undecided voters come to believe in him as "the President of all Americans". Patton was also able to leverage his Southern heritage to unite the South and avoid another 'Dixiecrat' split in the party. On November 4th, Patton's hard work paid off, as he won the 'unwinnable election' 294 to 237, with 57% of the popular vote.

- BNC
 
Nice update! Patton should mostly be secure for a successful presidency due to post war economy but I still think pushing to Moscow was the real time of his life.
I feel like this man, who was a Japanese ally in Manchuria may return:


Of course taking power won’t happen but he is probably able to be fairly influential.
Granted he will have to downplay his previous Nazi sympathies and be like “NO, Mussolini has always been the model” (Mussolini was still his main model)

The Russian far right has more potential than the far left, after all, the far right didn’t destroy them and their populace ttl, and given the government teaching “us Russians played no role, it was the godless communists” some may be attracted as they possibly view territorial loss as unfair punishment.

Open neo nazism in Russia will be worse than otl, as Nazi germany was a Soviet ally and never got to genociding Eastern Europe. True, Mein Kampf attacked slavs but many may legitimately believe due to the Soviet alliance Hitler dropped those views. Plus, many neo Nazi groups are in Mediterranean nations today otl, who Hitler also hated . Russia today still has a bad enough neo Nazi community, now without Barbarossa... yeah, it won’t be a major force in politics of course, but skinheads and football hooligans in Russia won’t hesitate to have Nazi tattoos and some organized groups may have low level success (among the lines of the George Lincoln Rockwell.)

Ultimately and Unfortunately , given the taboo of soviet history destroying the culture, it may just happen to be Russian neo nazism ttl is bigger than modern Russian communists, especially after the coup attempt.
 
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Patton should mostly be secure for a successful presidency due to post war economy but I still think pushing to Moscow was the real time of his life
I don't think there's anything Patton could do to top his march on Moscow. But a term in office is probably the closest he's ever going to get :)

I feel like this man, who was a Japanese ally in Manchuria may return
Yeah, he'd probably return to Russia.

Ultimately and Unfortunately , given the taboo of soviet history destroying the culture, it may just happen to be Russian neo nazism ttl is bigger than modern Russian communists, especially after the coup attempt.
That is a very strange thought indeed. Particularly as fascism still has a reasonable amount of legitimacy ITTL.

- BNC
 
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