They tried doing that, but the population and the Orthodox Church wasn’t up for it.What if the Byzantine Empire converts to Catholicism? Maybe they did so after the Crusaders enter Constantinople, or they voluntarily convert to gain support from the Papacy and fellow Catholic countries. Could a Catholic Byzantium stand against the Turks?
Oh yeah we really didn't like latins after the fourth crusade,destroying the empire was the final straw the schism was final then ,you probably need a pod that is before 1204, furthermore relations between east and west werent good even before thatThey tried doing that, but the population and the Orthodox Church wasn’t up for it.
But then you guys kept begging the west for help.......well into the 20th century against the Turks.Oh yeah we really didn't like latins after the fourth crusade,destroying the empire was the final straw the schism was final then ,you probably need a pod that is before 1204, furthermore relations between east and west werent good even before that
There is also the saying <<better the muslim/turkish turban than the papal tiara>>
The one who said it ended up dying by the sultan but you can infer what orthodox Catholics though about the matter of the schism(he was a noble but the people of the city and the clergy were up in arms as well by what Constantine xi did
I disagree heavily. The Greeks were willing to compromise for support from the Catholics before and after the fall of Constantinople. Every Greek in Constantinople probably would've converted to Catholicism to avoid occupation by a Muslim power.Oh yeah we really didn't like latins after the fourth crusade,destroying the empire was the final straw the schism was final then ,you probably need a pod that is before 1204
I disagree heavily. The Greeks were willing to compromise for support from the Catholics before and after the fall of Constantinople. Every Greek in Constantinople probably would've converted to Catholicism to avoid occupation by a Muslim power.
Oh say ,how did the council of Florence go?you know perhaps we greeks were just shy thats probably why we didnt bow to the authority rome,also you seem seem to forget the reaction of the orthodox christians of the empire to that council(i have a statement that will shock you.....they didnt like it)(also I dont think you know what compromise means the people of the empire were willing to work with latins to defeat the ottomans,they werent willing to submit to them which is what would have happened if they accepted the council of Florence in their eyes)I disagree heavily. The Greeks were willing to compromise for support from the Catholics before and after the fall of Constantinople. Every Greek in Constantinople probably would've converted to Catholicism to avoid occupation by a Muslim power.
Oh yeah we really didn't like latins after the fourth crusade,destroying the empire was the final straw the schism was final then ,you probably need a pod that is before 1204, furthermore relations between east and west werent good even before that
There is also the saying <<better the muslim/turkish turban than the papal tiara>>
The one who said it ended up dying by the sultan but you can infer what orthodox Catholics though about the matter of the schism(he was a noble but the people of the city and the clergy were up in arms as well by what Constantine xi did
It is attributed to loukas notaras the last grand duke of the roman empireWho supposedly said this?
It is attributed to loukas notaras the last grand duke of the roman empire
Oh say ,how did the council of Florence go?you know perhaps we greeks were just shy thats probably why we didnt bow to the authority rome,also you seem seem to forget the reaction of the orthodox christians of the empire to that council(i have a statement that will shock you.....they didnt like it)(also I dont think you know what compromise means the people of the empire were willing to work with latins to defeat the ottomans,they werent willing to submit to them which is what would have happened if they accepted the council of Florence in their eyes)
The dutch too, there was the say 'rather turkish than papist' among the calvinistWho supposedly said this?
Do note the context: the Dutch watergeuzen (essentially piratical rebels) wore badges with this creed to indicate how anti-Catholic they were. "Turkish" was used because "the Turk" was seen as an existential enemy of all Christendom in the popular imagination. The Dutch use of this phrase did not imply a desire for any kind of real alliance or association with the Turks, but was basically similar to saying (in a period-typical racist way) "I'd ally with the Devil himself before I ally with the Pope".The dutch too, there was the say 'rather turkish than papist' among the calvinist
Not really seeing how they could do better because they're Catholic.
I think maybe you could put a spin on it: somehow delay the Schism for a few decades. As the Byzantines get into really big trouble, they would be less inclined to break up with Rome, and as things progress similar to OTL, and the Empire weakens, they could probably submit to the Pope later on. This also assumes the Fourth Crusade doesn't happen as OTL. With continued western support, Byzantium may be able to limp on, but will be aligned to the Catholic church similar to OTL Greek Catholics.
I suspect that real historical phrases like this (all made by people opposed to Rome but conveniently very far away from the Ottomans and thus never in a position to really make this choice) have been later applied to describe (a perception of) historical Byzantine opinions, and spuriously attributed this or that historical figure.
I've never heard that coined outside of the Dutch Revolt. Do you have any sources to indicate that it was a common, or even a single mention of it by Greeks within Constantinople?The phrase "better the turban than the mitre" existed for a reason...
But then you guys kept begging the west for help.......well into the 20th century against the Turks.
I'd disagree with you. The Council of Florence didn't go that poorly, as you suggest. It was resisted by a large margin of the bishopric and citizenry, but has about just as many supporters. Saying the Orthodox Greeks would've converted to Catholicism rather than be out under Turkish domination was reaching, a tad, and my mistake. Were they willing to compromise? I recall Constantine XI contacting the pope in favour of union with the Catholic church in order to receive aid against the Ottoman's, but Europe was too busy with their own affairs to care. Seemed like he was willing to compromise.Oh say ,how did the council of Florence go?you know perhaps we greeks were just shy thats probably why we didnt bow to the authority rome,also you seem seem to forget the reaction of the orthodox christians of the empire to that council(i have a statement that will shock you.....they didnt like it)(also I dont think you know what compromise means the people of the empire were willing to work with latins to defeat the ottomans,they werent willing to submit to them which is what would have happened if they accepted the council of Florence in their eyes)