Map Thread XIX

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Gian

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Sounds much more interesting. It would require another earlier POD, but it shouldn't be too big of a problem.

@phil03 's own TL managed to do this with a PoD right around Father LeLoutre's War, which was the main catalyst for the Expulsion and largely started around 1754 (namely through the general and governor who orchestrated it)
 
@phil03 's own TL managed to do this with a PoD right around Father LeLoutre's War, which was the main catalyst for the Expulsion and largely started around 1754 (namely through the general and governor who orchestrated it)

I've heard of the guy (LeLoutre, not phil). That could work, though, then again, I might not want to be too similar to someone else but this one thing shouldn't be too much. I'll take a look at how@phil03 handled this and do some research on the war and what caused it. Thanks for the suggestion.
 

Gian

Banned
I've heard of the guy (LeLoutre, not phil). That could work, though, then again, I might not want to be too similar to someone else but this one thing shouldn't be too much. I'll take a look at how@phil03 handled this and do some research on the war and what caused it. Thanks for the suggestion.

This is the TL right here.
 
Squiggly American borders :love:

But why so many rebellions though?
A few reasons:

China is currently at the end of its latest dynastic cycle, which was artificially extended a century by sheer Columbian-Japanese force to keep the New York-attuned Qing in power. So they're essentially crumbling to pieces as we speak.

Russia is cracking down on non-Russians within its borders. The Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Armenians, Georgians, and Azerbaijanis are being forcibly relocated deeper into Central Asia to clear the way for Russian settlement of their lands, which they're not taking too kindly to.

That grand mess that is India is the current major conflict in this world, the War on Terror. Basically, following the Second Ultimatum and the dismantling of the British Empire in the 1940s and 1950s, the Raj was severed from London by the Columbians, Japanese, and French and left as it was, with little care for internal religious and ethnic conflicts and a puppet on the throne in New Delhi. The Indian Empire has been held together by proverbial band-aids for decades, but finally, at the dawn of the new millennium, a spark set off a massive civil war and terrorist movements galore. India is collapsing like the overgrown house of cards it had been since the '50s. It's seen as as much of a failed state ITTL as Syria or Afghanistan IOTL.

The UEC recently conquered Gran Colombia in the 1990s during the War of the Golden Circle. People in northern Venezuela still aren't over it yet.

Also, a e s t h e t i c .
 
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This is based on Plan B of the Woodhead Commission, which was in turn based on the Peel Commission, which called for the Mandate of Palestine to be partitioned into a Jewish state along the coast and in the lower Galilee, an Arab state to be united with Transjordan in the rest of Palestine, and for the upper Galilee (Arab majority, but surrounded by areas with a Jewish majority) and the area around Jerusalem (to avoid the question of which new country gets the greatest prize) to be kept under British mandate indefinitely. Alien space bats work their magic, a miracle occurs, and the proposal is accepted by both Jewish and Arab leadership.

A very nice map. There's a lot more in the way of nuance here than in many alt-partition plan scenarios you see.
 
Thunderinthewest-alliances.png


A map of alliances on the eve of the Second Great War, 1938.

White=neutrals (for now)

Grey=Reims Pact (along with colonies, territories, and co-belligerents)

Red=Comintern
 
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A few reasons:
Love it. I suppose it is kinda awkward having an American Taiwan tho? I'd have thought Japan would see Taiwan as the lynchpin and logistics hub in its east Asian empire. Is there a significant unofficial Japanese (merchants? Settlers?) presence on the island?

Is the America presence in Southern China official? Or is it de jure under the Qing Empire a la the EIC with the Mughal Empire?

How Celtic is that Irish Empire? Given how much the lowland Scots and English should outnumber them...How did the Irish come to dominate the Isles anyhow?

This is terrifying and I love it.
 
Love it. I suppose it is kinda awkward having an American Taiwan tho? I'd have thought Japan would see Taiwan as the lynchpin and logistics hub in its east Asian empire. Is there a significant unofficial Japanese (merchants? Settlers?) presence on the island?
The UEC and Japan are so symbiotic at this point that it doesn't really matter, and so the idea of a large unofficial Japanese presence on the island is definitely the situation at hand. Though, really, in this world, if Columbia says, "I want that," to their allies, said allies all take a step back and let them have it, lest they potentially damage their stable and friendly relationship with the most powerful nation on Earth. That's what happened with Taiwan, and the United Empire was even kind enough to trade the Philippines for it to Japan.

Is the America presence in Southern China official? Or is it de jure under the Qing Empire a la the EIC with the Mughal Empire?
It's definitely official. Everyone recognizes Columbia's claim to southern China except for the Chinese rebels trying to overthrow the dynasty. Even the Qing recognize the claims, if at gunpoint.

How Celtic is that Irish Empire? Given how much the lowland Scots and English should outnumber them...How did the Irish come to dominate the Isles anyhow?
It's not an Irish Empire, it's a federation of five separate kingdoms (Scotland, Northumbria, Cymru, Ulster, and Éire) that together function as a decently powerful nation. Celtic mythology is back as the religion of choice in Éire and Cymru, though the rest are still majority Christian.

This is terrifying and I love it
You know, everyone keeps saying that, and even though I recognize it's a weird world with some less than tasteful key aspects (theocratic imperialist hyperpowers and the continuation of colonialism spring to mind there), it's really not that horrifying. Not by AH standards, at least.
 
You know, everyone keeps saying that, and even though I recognize it's a weird world with some less than tasteful key aspects (theocratic imperialist hyperpowers and the continuation of colonialism spring to mind there), it's really not that horrifying. Not by AH standards, at least.


This is just an assumption but I think everything too dissimilar to OTL is what gets classified as "horrifying".
 
You know, everyone keeps saying that, and even though I recognize it's a weird world with some less than tasteful key aspects (theocratic imperialist hyperpowers and the continuation of colonialism spring to mind there), it's really not that horrifying. Not by AH standards, at least.
This is just an assumption but I think everything too dissimilar to OTL is what gets classified as "horrifying".
I suppose why I do in fact find this terrifying is two things:
  • The openly...Theocratically-inclined nature of this world
  • The overt imperialism and neoimperialsm of American (& friends)
The predominant historical experience of OTL is that theocracy=bad. Practically every religious revivalist movement since the Reformation, from Wahabbism to Puritanism to Mormonism, regardless of whether they are by nature inclined to destruction has at best a poor reputation in the modern world. When looking back at the past, it is a common assumption to view religiosity as backwards and foolish. (disclaimer: I in no way mean Wahabbism, Mormonism or what have you are evil) The truth is, religion more often than not spreads by the sword, feeding directly into imperialism; or even when it is spread by word, this often feeds into neo-imperialism, cultural imperialism and all that. Our modern, secular society fears religion and theocracy for quite logical reasons, and when you present a world with a single theocratic hyperpower: American Empire and the imposition of American values upon the world (inevitable given a theocracy has to be unified around certain cultural values, in this case the American Dream), The knee jerk reaction is to assume to worst and brand it as dystopia.

Its a bit like this thread in the Pre-1900 forums, an AHC for a dystopian British Empire. It's a trick question: by virtue of it being imperialist, the British Empire was dystopian, though it isn't readily apparent.
 
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A map of alliances on the eve of the Second Great War, 1938.

White=neutrals (for now)

Grey=Reims Pact (along with colonies, territories, and co-belligerents)

Red=Comintern
So, looks like Comintern will get booted out of the old world, and possibly be dominant in the new? Depends on how Brazil can hold up.
 
So, looks like Comintern will get booted out of the old world, and possibly be dominant in the new? Depends on how Brazil can hold up.

Not quite sure how things are going to shake out, to be honest. I've been building up this scenario in my head for a while, but probably not enough to give a great account of it. I may try to develop a TL or at least some short stories some day.

The Reims Pact certainly looks strong on paper, but a lot of its members and allies are fair-weather or weak (the leader of the coalition being the British Empire, followed closely by Germany and France). China for example is under a brittle, backwards Qing dictatorship propped up largely by European powers, riven by Nationalist insurgency in the south, and stands a good chance of simply collapsing into anarchy should it try to participate seriously in the war.

The Comintern has been conducting plenty of anti-colonial propaganda and funding left-nationalist groups through Africa and Asia, so the Pact will have a lot of forces tied down keeping order in their overseas holdings.

The Comintern has the advantage of having fewer disparate countries in its camp, and therefore a more closely coordinated policy, with less infighting. However, the Royal Navy still exists and is certainly going to be a pain in the ass of the American and Russian socialist republics trying to supply each other across continents.

The industrial capacity and sheer numbers of America and Russia may tell.

However, America has only gone red after a pretty grueling civil war, so she's quite a bit weaker than OTL USA at the same point in time. Weak enough that there will more likely than not be at least some fighting on American soil.

But yes, this either ends with Soviet Russia being crushed and socialist America barely holding her own and hunkering down in the New World, or else the Russo-American Red Army will steamroll Europe and plant a red flag over London.
 
But yes, this either ends with Soviet Russia being crushed and socialist America barely holding her own and hunkering down in the New World, or else the Russo-American Red Army will steamroll Europe and plant a red flag over London.

So the end is either America stands alone or the Socialist World Republic. Neat
 
But yes, this either ends with Soviet Russia being crushed and socialist America barely holding her own and hunkering down in the New World, or else the Russo-American Red Army will steamroll Europe and plant a red flag over London.

Ok going from the map

Abyssinia is neutral and apparently independent, so no second italo-abyssinian war and no waste of italian resources there and there are also no Jugoslavia with just Megaserbia and Slovenia and Croatia sandwitched between Italy, Germany and Jugoslavia (not considering Red Hungary).
Spain is in civil war? Otherwise not only there are even less waste for Italy

Regarding the URSS and the USA (or all the other communist nation) supplying each others, well one must consider that not only they must fight agaisnt the Royal Navy but also the Marine Nationale, Regia Marina and the IJN...and honestly if the red navy is like OTL they will be out of the game very soon; the USA on the other hand if they had gone through a civil war recently they will be in worse position than OTL regarding building a two ocean navy (and they have lost their bases in the Philippines and Haway) but on the other hand their army (and air force) will have at least a more modern doctrine and better training from the beginning.
Technological wise, well for the USA there will be also no Tizard mission and a lot less emigration from both workers and scientist...so they will be also a tech gap

Versailles seem to be different from OTL or at least the 20/30 very different, we had Anshluss, no polish corridor and lithuania is a little larger (poor Poland)

Italy is fascist? If not we can have a much m ore efficient military but in any case in an alliance like that, his OTL problem of supply are magically gone
Germany? Nazi, generic authoritarian regime or continuation of Weimar Republic? Jews situation
Canada is neutral? It's no more a Dominion member of the British Empire? I think that they will be scared a lot for their new neighbourg...unless under new management

Sure the communist can prop up some leftist group, but this are the 30's not the OTL 60's, there are a lot lot less of them, there are much more limited nationalist and independentist movement (90% of them are in India) and they are much more difficult to supply as there is not the widespread distrubution of weapon due to (still) no WW2 and the ports are under european control so they can smuggle something but not that much. Take as example Lybia, fascist or not fascist the pacification will happen more or less like OTL and after that the locals had fear to even look funny to the italians.

While you are right that the anticommunist alliance is widespread and different, a lot of them had serious beef with russia previusly and they know that if the communist/russian arrive their independence will be gone and the bad old days will come back, so they have a lot of incentive to fight

Plus what type of communist regime are the USA and the URSS? Stalinist type will have an hard job to survive any invasion that's not have genocide as objective like the Nazi one, as anyone more sane can get much much more local support
 
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