Also I think "Great Patriotic War" is a fun Great War/World War alternative name, and I'm actually a little bummed it didn't catch on more widely OTL.
Me too! The reason it didn't IOTL, as far as I understand, is that the term "patriotic war" in certain historiography refers to a specific type of war that happens when a country is fighting a war on its own soil against a foreign invader. This happened for the Soviet Union, but not for America, Britain, or the British dominions, so the term never caught on in the west.
Something that just occurred to me: given that some technological developments TTL have turned society into blind alleys and that given the Air War everyone will be turning to fighter jets with gusto it would be interesting if ICBMs are really delayed TTL or even butterflied entirely, with an emphasis shifted to V3 cannons and orbital bombers. Hell, a space race revolving entirely around space planes just parking in orbit or trying to coast to the moon or whatever would be incredibly interesting.
The space race will indeed look very different in this TL.
Weirdly enough, those jet fighters are probably pretty terrible compared to their OTL counterparts in the 50s and 60s. Without missiles, maneuverability is probably placed above speed and their weapon range is probably absolutely terrible with their continued use of guns and bombs. If the Separateverse keeps going down their current path they’re going to fall behind OTL, especially in airpower and long range engagements.
You're absolutely right.
TTL's jet fighters don't have missiles, so they rely on autocannons instead.
I find a neglect of long-range rocketry a little dubious, since guns get outlandishly large, immobile, and expensive (relative to rockets) as you increase their range, without being any more accurate or having any of the other advantages that they have over rocket artillery at short ranges. It’s not like rocket artillery never existed considering the lateness of the PoD, and considering the penchant of people to mess with the idea from time to time I can’t believe they haven’t tinkered with it further from time to time.
Now, without nuclear weapons long-range rockets aren’t very useful, but neither are long-range guns...
Congreve rockets made an appearance OTL not too long after the POD. Mayhaps the Seprateverse versions are more sucsessful and followed up on?
Some perfectly valid criticism.
Congreve rockets did exist, and there were some 19th century experiments with early rocket artillery. But the Separate-verse's approach towards technological progress meant that national governments focused their attentions on artillery, which was a more tried and true technology, rather than risk wasting resources on rocketry. When they started to run into the limits of gun artillery as a technology, militaries invested in aircraft instead for bombing missions, choosing to focus on improving an already familiar weapon system.
It's not that the Separate-verse
couldn't have developed long-range rocketry- people tinkered with rockets from time to time and small rockets exist- it's just that they didn't. Paths not taken and all of that. If asked experts in universe they'd tell you that long-range rocketry could possibly work as a valid weapons system, but no one has been willing to invest the time and money to develop it yet.
You're absolutely right, but I bet this timeline has some downright spectacular dogfights. Like, anime-awesome-level badassery; I'd love to see their version of Top Gun.
Oh you have no idea.
Certainly possible! Their whole system is geared to ensuring total loyalty among the Custodial Race, and they've almost certainly got their fair share of zealots.
I wonder if there's any dissent at the top? How popular can this whole "Kingdom of God" business be? I imagine that with many it's sort of an "in for a penny, in for a pound situation," in that there's no other way to keep the Drakians on top against the unwashed masses of Africa and Asia Minor.
There are factions within the Drakian government, although there's a sense that loyalty to the nation needs to come first. The big divide is between the true-believing Societist ideologues, and the "yes, yes, glory to the race, now can we focus please?" pragmatists and Societist moderates. There
are Drakian conservatives and reactionaries who don't like the "Kingdom of God business" and want to go backwards to a more traditional sort of government, but they're either not in the government or keep their views secret.
Given this is a more grounded scenario (rather than an evil empire wank) I imagine the ratio is skewed in favor of pragmatists over ideologues, at least this early in the Societist project. The ratio will tilt more heavily the longer the Agoges are operational though.
Quite so!
As for zealotry, I was thinking about some sort of rallying cry that the Fascists could use as they become more prominent. While "Manifest Destiny!" would be a nice WMiT reference, it's replete with national chauvinism, so something more neutral like "Union and Liberty!" would be a decent choice. It's far more hopeful-sounding and inclusive than "Service to the State! Glory to the Race!", which is entirely the point.
The chant of the American Fascist movement at their rallies is; "One Nation! One Law! One Union!"
It was distantly inspired by a very old French political slogan and expresses the Fascist belief in a single American identity regardless of race or religion, with equal treatment before the law for all, and a rejection of succession-ism (whether Southern, Mexican, Central American, or other) and Jim Crow*.
Honestly I'm really fascinated by the tenets of Societism. A radical, fringe conservative ideology that is ultimately revolutionary in nature (in that the current order is flawed and must be evolved) is pretty interesting. Perhaps conservatism is the wrong moniker, but right wing certainly.
Either way EBR has done a great job of giving the Drakians some character that the Draka lacked beyond "LICK THE DAMNYANKEES HOO YAA BDSM AND GRADE SCHOOL NIHILISM!"
Well thank you, that was a big part of my goal when I set out to write this TL.
As for your comment; there are some revolutionary elements to OTL Fascism, but they tend to get played down because when OTL Fascism takes power it immediately eliminates those elements. There's a bit of Dark Enlightenment ideas to my Societism ("We must overthrow the corrupt liberal order so as to go backwards.") and a bit of the Christian Patriot movement, but really I just like the idea of "revolutionary counter-revolutionism" as an actual ideology.
I think the descriptor you're looking for is reactionary rather than conservative. A Societist Cultural Revolution wouldn't be out of character, and given that the most openly anti-Societist elements are more straight conservative (and ironically much closer to Rex Thought, I'd imagine), the idea that the Drakian counterculture will be suits and ties conservatives is incredibly funny to me.
There are liberal and revolutionary dissident and anti-government elements in Drakia, but they're fairly small and largely restricted to the Bonded or a small segment among Honorary Whites- most counter-cultural types among the Citizens are classic conservatives and reactionaries.
Wow, I've just been binging this timeline constantly for the past two days, and I'm so impressed by the level of thought put into it. I hadn't heard of the Draka series before, but "gigantic feudal South Africa" + "gigantic tolerant-ish U.S." is an interesting enough scenario on its own, without even getting into the various ideological and technological changes. I'm really excited to see where this goes! (And for what it's worth, a lot of people have been assuming the Americans will be the ones getting creamed by the end of the Pacific War, but it's interesting to consider the ramifications of the opposite outcome.)
Thanks, it's always very nice to hear from someone who's liking my TL! And I'm very pleased to hear that my scenario can stand on its own, and not just as a deconstruction/reconstruction of someone else's AH.
