Assuming a PoD of no earlier than January 1st, 1919, what could the British do to keep the whole of Ireland as part of the United Kingdom? Is the Irish war of independence guaranteed to force the British to institute home rule?
Reading this speech may help.
Irish Home Rule Speech - Wikisource, the free online library
en.wikisource.org
You can have democracy in the UK, or you can keep Ireland as part of the UK.
Pick one.
If you had Michael Collins killed in the Easter Rising that might help a bit.
Actually ypu dont, It is possible that the plan for a devolved settlement for the whole UK and Ireland could have been accepted by the Conservative and Unionist Party at one point. Such devout Unionists as FE Smith were involved in serious discussions about it with the Liberalds and Irisah constitutionalists. in the end, however, this discussion did not suceed, but it might have. Of course this would have been a very loose United Kingdom, and certainly not a unitary state. Later on the British could at least have kept Eire in the Commonwealth long term if they had not over reacted in 1916, as the rising was very unpopular until the executions turned opinion around.IMHO, 1919 is far, far too late for such a POD. You have to go back at least a hundred years.
That's an interesting speech, Gladstone certainly brings up good points. Would it not be possible to keep the Irish in the United Kingdom even with a devolved government with a reintroduction of an Irish parliament? Or would the Unionists cause to much trouble for such a solution to be viable or tenable long-term? If home rule were to be instituted, would that precipitate an earlier formation of a Scottish parliament, or would that still be a long ways off?
If collins is dead and there is still rebellion just who do Britain negioiate with?It probably would just make things worse. One martyr more. Better would be if Brits decide throw Easter Rising leaders to prison instead hanging. And even then they just would delay independence while.
If collins is dead and there is still rebellion just who do Britain negioiate with?
Don't forget that Ulster Presbyterians were the most fervent United Irishmen. A post 1798 POD is still possible. Pre 1900, I would suggest combining the Act of Union with Catholic Emancipation as William Pitt wanted but King George thought violated his Coronation Oath (King having one of his porphyria episodes to coincide with the Act of Union might deliver that); and the Corn Laws being passed with an inbuilt suspension (or power to declare specific ports duty free) in times of famine procedure leaving Robert Peel in power during the late 1840s and early 1850s. Avoiding the assassination of Lord Frederick Cavendish and Mr. Burke in 1882 might have led to earlier Home Rule before positions entrenched and without Cavendish's brother Lord Hartington leading the Liberal Unionists out of the Liberal Party. Avoiding the implosion of Parnell's political career would be another interesting POD.pre-United Irishmen
Post 1900, if someone had had the brainwave of a federal devolution with most powers delegated to the 4 Provinces (like the Eire Nua group suggested fifty years later) a compromise might have been worked out at the Buckingham Palace Conference in 1912;
Don't forget that Ulster Presbyterians were the most fervent United Irishmen.
A post 1798 POD is still possible.
Pre 1900, I would suggest combining the Act of Union with Catholic Emancipation as William Pitt wanted but King George thought violated his Coronation Oath (King having one of his porphyria episodes to coincide with the Act of Union might deliver that); and the Corn Laws being passed with an inbuilt suspension (or power to declare specific ports duty free) in times of famine procedure leaving Robert Peel in power during the late 1840s and early 1850s. Avoiding the assassination of Lord Frederick Cavendish and Mr. Burke in 1882 might have led to earlier Home Rule before positions entrenched and without Cavendish's brother Lord Hartington leading the Liberal Unionists out of the Liberal Party. Avoiding the implosion of Parnell's political career would be another interesting POD.
Post 1900, if someone had had the brainwave of a federal devolution with most powers delegated to the 4 Provinces (like the Eire Nua group suggested fifty years later) a compromise might have been worked out at the Buckingham Palace Conference in 1912; The 1916 Rising might have been nipped in the bud if the Asquith government hadn't run down Dublin Castle's intelligence networks on the basis that they were no longer necessary with Home Rule on its way. And, obviously, if someone politically adroit had commuted all the Rising leader's death sentences to life imprisonment I think you could have had Ireland as a Dominion at least.
Oh I'm not forgetting that at all, the reason I argue for a pre-1798 one would be so that the idea of creating a sense of "Britishness" in Ireland would allow those same men to join in the same general "unity" ideal. I still regard the, for lack of a better way of putting it, "split" between Presbyterians and Catholics after 1798 as probably the single most disastrous event in Irish political history.
The problem is that, since Henry VIII, Britishness is defined as Not Catholic.
No, not exactly. Transfer those powers to each of the four Provinces - Ulster; Leinster; Munster and Connaught individually with "Ireland" only running a couple of services at the federal level, rather than to Ireland collectively as OTL and the Unionists might have agreed to a compromise. Pretty much what they signed up to in 1923 after all.
You are conflating the post 1923 Six Counties with pre 1914 Ulster. Remember that four Ulster counties had Nationalist/Catholic majorities (Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan and Tyrone), one was more or less half and half (Fermanagh, 2% Nationalist majority) and four had Unionist/Protestant majorities (Antrim, Down, Londonderry and Armagh). The Unionists of Edwardian Ulster did not want to be (a) part of a state that they feared (not without some justification it must be said) was going to be dominated by the Catholic Church; or (b) separated by protectionist tariffs of any sort from the British and Imperial markets on which their then booming economy was dependent. Reassure them on those points and perhaps a deal can be struck.The problem is Ulster Protestants run the place in their own sectarian interest, and will start a civil war if they get stopped from doing so. And were preparing to do so in 1913.
And until you get a British Army that is prepared to shoot Unionists terrorists - and I'd absolutely suggest Dublin Castle is the first place you'd need level with artillery if you were going to do that - you can't actually stop them.
Mary Tudor and Cardinal Pole are waving at you. King Charles II and James III say "Hi" as well.The problem is that, since Henry VIII, Britishness is defined as Not Catholic.