Affiliated States of Boreoamerica thread

[Boneheaded_Bookkeeper]

Polandball representing the different kind of accent amongst different langages (I might be wrong in a few of them tho)

Spoiler: Polandball

You know you've made it as a TL when polandball comics are made for it. This is pretty funny and I can tell that it took a long time to make. Great job!

 

[Griffin04]

I for one think they should keep Tunisia to the present, while releasing Libya (but that's just me)

By the way, I may decide to write a proposal for Egypt, Sudan, and Syria/Lebanon guys (especially you @False Dmitri)

If anything I think the other way around would be more likely- Libya has a lower population density, and the enticement of oil reserves. Still, Neoteros noted that Tunisia was the only colonial project likely to get confederal consensus (the others having originated as private ventures), and I would tend to agree with that- the Senussis gave Italy a hell of a fight OTL, and with TTL Italy's Switzerland-like confederalism, there would be rather more cat-herding involved in keeping a major colonial project like that going. I'm imagining that Tunisia was a protectorate like OTL, which makes independence a likelier outcome to decolonization than integration, at least IMO.

 

[fernerdave]

I'd been trying to sort of graft the open-mouth head from the Gadsden snake onto the more stretched-out snake's body, but my graphic skills weren't up to it.

Its a nice snake!

 

[Kosta]

If anything I think the other way around would be more likely- Libya has a lower population density, and the enticement of oil reserves. Still, Neoteros noted that Tunisia was the only colonial project likely to get confederal consensus (the others having originated as private ventures), and I would tend to agree with that- the Senussis gave Italy a hell of a fight OTL, and with TTL Italy's Switzerland-like confederalism, there would be rather more cat-herding involved in keeping a major colonial project like that going. I'm imagining that Tunisia was a protectorate like OTL, which makes independence a likelier outcome to decolonization than integration, at least IMO.

It might be easier to start off with Genoa's island colony off the Tunisian coast (Tabarka and maybe Djerba if I recall correctly) or even the Knights of Maltas' possessions nearby (Tripoli definitely, maybe Djerba). Castilla held onto bits of Libya and Algeria on and off in the 1500's as well. The Genoese held onto Tabarka for 202 years before they lost it to the Ottomans. Depending on when the Ottoman Empire withers and either implodes with a whimper or explodes with a bang, the Genoese might be able to never lose that island or get it back in a short amount of time. The Knights of Malta colonized an island in the Caribbean and I think they considered helping pave the way for French settlement in what's now Guyana. Stranger things have happened.

Latin Rite or even Uniate Catholics fleeing Anatolia, the Levant, or even island groupings like the Cyclades and Heptanese during the collapse might be more than happy to crowd into the islands off the Maghrebi coast. They'd be indebted to the Genoese Republic like the first Maniote refugees were to Corsica. Orthodox Greeks and the two types of Catholics were more than happy to do that after the fall of Rhodes when they accompanied the Crusaders to Malta. Russia was more than happy to play ball with Catholic Poles during the slow chipping away at the PLC's borders. I see no reason they would let local Greeks in the Heptanese push back against their Venetian overlords on Kerkyra and Zakynthos so they might not be the best manpower base for Italian colonial ventures to pull from to demographically dominate some islands off Tunisia. But if Smyrna gets burnt to the ground during the final days of the Ottoman Empire as the Pollaco-Swedo-Russians close in on Constantinople, there could be tens of thousands of Levantines, Armenian converts, and a couple low hundred Greek converts begging to get on boats bound for Tabarka. English Catholic refugees converging in Italy and then being shipped out to help in Africa is another idea.

If @False Dmitri let us use Levantines to be the Italian colonial ventures' shock troops and a destruction of Smyrna kick started the birth of Nueva Esmirna (a bit different from real life, to be sure, where the local bey didn't want to lose a single laborer to Turnbull's scheme) and the solidification of Genoese Tabarka, I'd like then to pursue decades after that terrible event island Greeks content under pseudo-Dimitrian rule settling into and rebuilding Smyrna. The Roman/Christian (same thing) life on western Anatolia was cyclical. Islanders moving slightly east greatly outnumbered the true indigenous Greek-speakers who've been there almost since time immemorial. The Christian base of Nikaia was restocked in the 1450's with forced settlers from Epirus and the Peloponnese so Greek-speakers, Bulgarian-speakers, Arvanites, and even Tsakonika-speakers all blended together into a generically Christian hodgepodge. There were barely any indigenous left when they got there. That's why the sultan moved more dhimmis there—to replenish his tax-base.

The Tunisians had an alliance with the Druze of Lebanon in the 1600's and Liguria settled some Macedonian (no one specified if they were Greeks or Slavs but inquiring about a peasant group's self-identification is an anachronistic question during the Ottoman era) in a nearby swamp and planned to take in a ton of Spanish Muslims. That's another way to spice up Italy but Tuscan colonization of Guyana is already spicy enough.

Dear Lord baby Jesus, 6 pounds 8 ounce, let me get a Safavid thrust into Iraq & Anatolia after the Russians make a move on the Balkans and the Turkic nomads on central Anatolia return to their Ghulat ways. Maybe some future stand in for Nader Shah can bridge the Sunni-Shia gap. That's an idea I cribbed from @Nassirisimo. Amen.

 

[Griffin04]

Very interesting ideas, @Kosta! Could you see Italy retaining control of Tabarka after decolonization, like Ceuta and Melilla OTL, or would it be a bridge too far?

The rest of the post is fascinating as well, I wish I knew more about early modern Anatolia so I could comment more intelligently.

 

[Griffin04]

Apparently there's still a dialect of Ligurian spoken by descendents of the Genoese colonists in Tabarka, who have since relocated to Sardinia.

 

[Oliveia]

Alright, so, I've been busy (and when not busy, incredibly lazy), but I think I have an idea about the Kingdom of Salt Lake, or some equivalency. But first, a history lesson:

The regions of Northern Utah (specifically around the Great Salt Lake) were scarcely populated before the arrival of the Mormons -- the creation of Salt Lake City was in part due to the ease of access to the lake, as no permanent Native settlements were in the area. The only major group of people exploring this region before the arrival of the Mormons (and emigrants from the California Gold Rush) were fur-trappers. Among these were French-American and British trappers, including Brigade Leader of the Hudson Bay Company Peter S. Ogden, which brings me to my proposal for the Kingdom of Salt Lake:

LORDSHIP OF THE SALT LAKE¹​

The Lordship of the Salt Lake was the lovechild of a wide amount of fur-trappers within the uninhabited and exploited areas of Northern Mexico. The first major leader of colonial efforts was Lord Peter Ogden², who settled Fort Henry (named after the then-British King William Henry, crowned William IV)³ in 1830. This fort, which later became Henrysville, served as a central meeting point for fur traders of all origins, attracting most thoroughly the trappers of Rupertia and of French America. These groups often intermingled with the Natives of the nearby watersheds and freshwater lakes, such as the Goshute, the Shoshone, and the Ute. Following the establishment of the piecemeal California, the Rupertian presence in the region strengthened and solidified, and inspired by states such as Russian California and New Albion, the Lordship of the Salt Lake became heavily associated with Rupertia, sometimes even being called Rupertian California.
Despite Henrysville being its current capital⁴, the largest city in Salt Lake is the French-settled Carrefour (literally "Crossroads" in French) along the coast of the Great Salt Lake, whose unique location along the huge saline lake makes it hugely popular among tourists. It is a parliamentarian state, with the head of state being the non-elected Lord, who is instead decided by the government in Rupertia.

---

1. The flag's incredibly makeshift, but it uses the colors of the Canadian flag (I know there's no flag of Rupertia, but I felt it was safe to assume it might use the colors of our Canadian flag).
2. His title of Lord was given to him after he founded Fort Henry.
3. Name due to change, as British kings are probably different ITTL
4. Approximately Ogden, Utah. Carrefour is where Salt Lake City is.

---

It's short, but that's a rough idea of what I was thinking. Feel free to trash it completely, it's just some thoughts I juggled together.

 

[Kosta]

Apparently there's still a dialect of Ligurian spoken by descendents of the Genoese colonists in Tabarka, who have since relocated to Sardinia.

Thank you.
I have since we've all last spoke realized I made a mistake. There's a town named Tabarka on the mainland and an island named Tabarka. The latter didn't get conquered by the Ottomans fair and square. During the 1700's after 200 years of being there, the Genoese actually destroyed the offshore coral reef and the local ecosystem with it. Their island holding became useless. They willingly gave it to the Ottoman-backed bey of Tunis. Now, here they could realize they made a terrible mistake but simply move their colonists onto the mainland instead of letting them flee to a tiny island off Sardinia and a tiny island off Catalonia. I think Wikipedia made a mistake. On the one hand, it says the Genoese harvested the coral off the island's shore for 200+ years to make luxury goods and then caused irreparable destruction. However, in the French history section, it mentioned that the mainland was a great place to fish. Tabarka colony wasn't important enough to warrant its own book. It merely shows up as a footnote in books like Genoa, 'La Superba': The Rise and Fall of a Merchant Pirate Superpower, that's about it. I think it's safe to assume that if we go with the Italians run roughshod over the Maghrebi coast, the mainland immediately off the island fortress of Tabarka can provide the starting point of their colonization, and there are a whole lot of Catholic refugees across the Med who can provide the manpower to do it.

 

[Griffin04]

I'm personally skeptical that Italy would have the capability or the political will to turn Tunisia into some sort of settler colony, but I think having Genoa manage their island more effectively, then grab the corresponding mainland city and hold it in a Ceuta and Melilla-type situation is plausible.

(I also think that European powers permanently colonising North Africa in general is an overdone cliche given how unlikely it is).

Another thought I had, might Livorno be a bigger centre of trade iTTL, given Tuscany's control over a presumably profitable South American colony? I know that there were merchants there, especially among the Jewish community, who had pretty deep ties to North Africa, and some to Tunis in particular.

 

[Tsochar]

I'm personally skeptical that Italy would have the capability or the political will to turn Tunisia into some sort of settler colony, but I think having Genoa manage their island more effectively, then grab the corresponding mainland city and hold it in a Ceuta and Melilla-type situation is plausible.

(I also think that European powers permanently colonising North Africa in general is an overdone cliche given how unlikely it is).

Another thought I had, might Livorno be a bigger centre of trade iTTL, given Tuscany's control over a presumably profitable South American colony? I know that there were merchants there, especially among the Jewish community, who had pretty deep ties to North Africa, and some to Tunis in particular.

I think that, given that the concept of nation-state differs between OTL and the ASB-verse, there are arrangements that can be made here which would be unthinkable in OTL. I am reminded of Albert Camus's advocacy for multiculturalism within a federated France-Algeria. In OTL, this had no backing from anyone - the French wanted to cling onto power at the expense of the Algerians, and the crimes by France against the Algerian people were too great for any of the native leaders to stomach such compromise. However, a similar situation with Italy and Tunisia might be possible here.

Here's how I see it happening: In OTL, Tunisia went bankrupt in 1869 and was taken over by European financial interests; at this time it had already drafted a constitution of its own, even though it was technically an Ottoman province. If the Beylik already had deals in place with one of the Italian states, then it might get more favorable treatment, eventually ending up as a protectorate, but with more control over its own economy and politics. As long as the Tunisian people aren't discriminated against in their own country (a tall order, but probably doable), I think a full independence movement might be avoided, and instead it could morph into a co-equal federated province.

 

[Griffin04]

As long as the Tunisian people aren't discriminated against in their own country

This is the big question, and it's where I just don't see a way to make it happen within a colonial context. Simply put, Tunisians aren't Italians, and any any efforts to make them identify as such in order to integrate them into the metropole are gonna require force and discrimination. If Tunisia has more autonomy during the colonial period, that makes them more likely to break away than to integrate them into Italy, at least imo. Of course, I would imagine post-independence Tunisia has lots of cultural and economic ties to Italy, and an Italian equivalent to the Commonwealth of Nations has already been suggested in the thread. Ultimately, a transition from protectorate status to independence with close (perhaps neo-colonial) economic ties is the most likely outcome here.

 

[Tsochar]

This is the big question, and it's where I just don't see a way to make it happen within a colonial context. Simply put, Tunisians aren't Italians, and any any efforts to make them identify as such in order to integrate them into the metropole are gonna require force and discrimination. If Tunisia has more autonomy during the colonial period, that makes them more likely to break away than to integrate them into Italy, at least imo. Of course, I would imagine post-independence Tunisia has lots of cultural and economic ties to Italy, and an Italian equivalent to the Commonwealth of Nations has already been suggested in the thread. Ultimately, a transition from protectorate status to independence with close (perhaps neo-colonial) economic ties is the most likely outcome here.

I agree that it's definitely more likely. The alternative would be for them to be in some kind of loose union with the Sicilies (and maybe Albania and some Mediterranean islands) and not join Italy until well into the 20th century.

 

[Tsochar]

Idly thinking, could northern Mexico have some kind of Aztlan movement? Settlers from Rupertsland, California, and the ASB, and the Natives from outside the Mesoamerican culture sphere, have canonically all fought against the central Mexican government and lost. Presumably, those groups which have not fully assimilated into Mexican culture, such as those near the border and probably the larger, less-fertile plains, would be economically disadvantaged in the current Mexico. This might lead to an independence movement about as successful as the Aztlan movement in OTL. Which is to say, not successful at all and having no real possibility to succeed in the foreseeable future.

 

[Tsochar]

I did some math on native languages in the ASB. I made up a spreadsheet with some basic assumptions to make some broad estimates and I looked at multilingualism statistics for Quebec, Belgium, and Luxembourg to make this:

Language learning in the ASB:
Virtually everyone in the ASB can speak at least one of the four Confederal languages. The vast majority speak only one language at home: 74% of respondents report speaking a confederal language at home, 13% in a native language, 12% in an immigrant language, and 2% reported speaking multiple languages at home. An estimated 26% in the country report knowing only one language.

Confederal languages:
In terms of native speakers, English is the most widely spoken language in the ASB, mostly concentrated in the highly urbanized coast. However, in terms of overall use, French dominates; it is the only language in the ASB spoken by an outright majority of the country.
Spanish is less common as a second language, owing to its generally lower socioeconomic status; its learners are generally adjacent to Spanish states or near the Mexican border.
More than twice as many people in the ASB speak Dutch as a second language than as a first language. This is for many reasons: Many movies, particularly classics, are only available with Dutch dubbing, making materials easy to come by; English-speakers find the language the easiest to study; and it is practically required for aspiring actors, stockbrokers, and confederal-level politicians. However, language retention is low due to the relative lack of Dutch speakers outside New Netherland.

Other languages
German is the most popular "foreign language" as defined by the census office. In addition to the longstanding German-speaking communities stretching from Pennsylvania to Pays-d'en-Haut, German is also the most popular language taught in schools aside from Confederal languages. German is sometimes called an "old immigrant" language, because most of its speakers in the ASB are native-born. It shares this distinction with Italian, Portuguese, Swedish, Welsh, and others.
Native languages do not enjoy the same popularity that their European counterparts do. Generally speaking, the only people who learn native languages as a second language are spouses and descendants of the group in question. The most widely-spoken native language is Muscogui, although for many decades it was Iroquois. Iroquois still attracts more learners than other native languages, however.
Immigrant languages are a growing part of the ASB's linguistic landscape. In the past few decades, speakers of languages such as Chinese, Arabic, Russian, Nahuatl, Hindi, and other languages have grown rapidly due to increased immigration from "non-traditional" countries. The majority of learners of these languages are the children or spouses of native speakers.

Languages spoken at home in the ASB:
English: 29%
French: 25%
Spanish: 14%
Dutch: 7%
Muscogui: 2.6%
German: 2.1%
Iroquois: 2%
Cherokee: 1.3%
Huron: 1.1%
Chinese (all varieties): 1%

While urban areas are generally multilingual, where inhabitants may regularly use two or three languages on a daily basis, rural areas are often more isolated; in many smaller communities, monolingualism is the norm. As a result, while the average number of spoken languages is 3.2 in New Amsterdam and 2.3-2.8 in other cities, rural areas are estimated to range from 1.1 to 2.5, depending on geography. Across the whole ASB, the number of languages spoken is around 1.9, though the majority of ASB residents have a basic grasp of at least 3.

Knowledge of languages in the ASB:
French: 68%
English: 49%
Spanish: 28%
Dutch: 27%
German: 4%
Muscogui: 3.8%
Iroquois: 3.5%
Cherokee: 2.3%
Huron: 1.6%
Chickasaw: 1.5%
Dakota: 1.4%
Ashinaabe: 1.4%
Chinese: 1.1%

 

[Griffin04]

1. The flag's incredibly makeshift, but it uses the colors of the Canadian flag (I know there's no flag of Rupertia, but I felt it was safe to assume it might use the colors of our Canadian flag).

On the subject of Rupertia's flag, how would people feel about a design based on the Hudson's Bay point blanket? They were a common trade good produced by the Hudson's Bay Company for the fur trade, had a simple standardized design based on available dyes at the time, namely a green stripe, red stripe, yellow stripe, and indigo stripe on a white background. You can actually still buy one today, from the Hudson's Bay Company, which is now a Canadian department store.

 

[Venusian Si]

Idly thinking, could northern Mexico have some kind of Aztlan movement? Settlers from Rupertsland, California, and the ASB, and the Natives from outside the Mesoamerican culture sphere, have canonically all fought against the central Mexican government and lost. Presumably, those groups which have not fully assimilated into Mexican culture, such as those near the border and probably the larger, less-fertile plains, would be economically disadvantaged in the current Mexico. This might lead to an independence movement about as successful as the Aztlan movement in OTL. Which is to say, not successful at all and having no real possibility to succeed in the foreseeable future.

To answer your question, I would say yes and no. For starters, Boreoamericans and others did successfully rip California from Mexico's control - this massive territorial loss to "outsiders" is one of the major contributing factors that lead to Mexico's historic assimilationist policy and aggressive use of loyal citizens to colonize its remaining northern territories (along with recruited immigrants also deem sufficiently loyal to the Mexican state).

With Mexico's fierce assimilationist views noted, it's also important to note that Mexico ITTL has had a state capitalist system with a decent welfare net for decades. In that case, the majority of immigrants to modern Mexico will have a state structure that will not only attempt to culturally integrate them but also be willing to provide some basic economic support all in the name of maintaining social harmony.

Of course, it's natural to imagine a few falling in between the cracks, but the economic/cultural conditions don't necessarily support an Aztlan-style movement in Mexico proper. Outside of Mexico though, you do have one main possibility for something similar to what your asking for.

I would imagine that many of the descendants of the tribes exiled to the ASB from Mexico would have some sort of movement to recognize/receive compensation for what's essentially TTL's equivalent of the Trail of Tears. While I'd imagine that the majority would simply ask for reparations of some sort, I'd also imagine that a not insignificant number might be working for a full Right of Return - with either being given autonomous status or full independence of their reclaimed land as part of the deal.

I did some math on native languages in the ASB. I made up a spreadsheet with some basic assumptions to make some broad estimates and I looked at multilingualism statistics for Quebec, Belgium, and Luxembourg to make this:

That's incredibly impressive. Absolutely fantastic work - how long did that take?

On the subject of Rupertia's flag, how would people feel about a design based on the Hudson's Bay point blanket? They were a common trade good produced by the Hudson's Bay Company for the fur trade, had a simple standardized design based on available dyes at the time, namely a green stripe, red stripe, yellow stripe, and indigo stripe on a white background. You can actually still buy one today, from the Hudson's Bay Company, which is now a Canadian department store.

That would be really nice! And a surprisingly original idea too based on previous AH.

 

[Tsochar]

That's incredibly impressive. Absolutely fantastic work - how long did that take?

Not an easy question to answer. I started the spreadsheet in mid-December as part of some research on immigration (which I am still working on, bit by bit), but I stopped working on it for a while due to real life getting busy. While I was on a productivity kick, I finished it all up over the course of a couple of nights. Overall, I'd estimate maybe 6-8 hours.

What I did was, I made a spreadsheet with each state's population that was posted earlier in the thread, and I gave each state a proportion for French, English, Spanish, Dutch, German, Native, Swedish, and Immigrant. I used each state's description for most of the numbers, and used real-life statistics to estimate concentration of immigrants. It worked out fairly well in many cases; relatively few immigrants settle in the Deep South in the area corresponding to the Native states, and I imagine these states would be less attractive to immigration in TTL as well. As an aside, I love the Statistics Canada website and I wish the US had something comparable because statisticalatlas, datausa, and censusreporter all have annoying limitations and for some reason have been purging language statistics since 2018.

The numbers for some states, I feel, might be dubious, particularly for Upper Country, but I think on average it probably shakes out to a reasonable number.

For example, I had Huronia, I arbitrarily assigned it, 5% English (most states get at least 5% English and 5% French, or 2 or 3% if they are further from those respective states), 0% Spanish, 10% Dutch (since it's labeled with a significant Dutch minority on the confederal languages page), and 9% Foreign (roughly the number of foreigners living in Ontario when Toronto isn't counted); the rest was a balance of French-to-Native that I got from the names of the various subdivisions of the state, which shook out to 53% French and 23% Native. Canada was similar, 56% French, 5% each of English, Spanish, Dutch, and Native, and 23% immigrant. I think I got the 23% by giving Montreal as many immigrants as Toronto, but I can't honestly remember.

I actually tried to fudge it a little to bias it towards French, but I concluded that getting French to exceed English would have needed too much fudging.

Actually, let me try out the board's new table function so I can share it (and so others might be able to critique it):

Spoiler: All these numbers are arbitrary

		French	English	Spanish	Dutch	Native	German	Swedish	Foreign
1. Upper Country	30,300,000​	0.51​	0.16​	0​	0.03​	0.17​	0.07​	0​	0.06​
2. New Netherland	20,100,000​	0.02​	0.1​	0.02​	0.56​	0.01​	0.02​	0​	0.27​
3. Carolina	16,300,000​	0.02​	0.86​	0.02​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0.1​
4. Ohio	12,400,000​	0.32​	0.3​	0​	0​	0.25​	0.05​	0.02​	0.06​
5. Cuba	11,200,000​	0.03​	0.03​	0.85​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0.09​
6. West Dominica	10,600,000​	0.95​	0​	0.03​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0.02​
7. East Dominica	10,000,000​	0.05​	0​	0.87​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0.08​
8. Seminol	9,800,000​	0.03​	0.03​	0.39​	0​	0.38​	0​	0​	0.11​
9. Huronia	9,400,000​	0.53​	0.05​	0​	0.1​	0.23​	0​	0​	0.09​
10. Canada	8,400,000​	0.56​	0.05​	0.05​	0.05​	0.05​	0​	0​	0.24​
11. Lower Virginia	7,500,000​	0.03​	0.83​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0.14​
12. East Florida	7,500,000​	0.03​	0.05​	0.8​	0​	0.05​	0​	0​	0.07​
13. Upper Virginia	7,000,000​	0.03​	0.83​	0​	0​	0.1​	0​	0​	0.04​
14. Pennsylvania	6,600,000​	0.02​	0.65​	0​	0.03​	0​	0.19​	0​	0.11​
15. Dakota	6,600,000​	0.57​	0​	0.1​	0​	0.24​	0.03​	0​	0.06​
16. Lower Louisiana	6,300,000​	0.74​	0.03​	0.1​	0​	0.03​	0​	0​	0.1​
17. Massachusetts Bay	5,400,000​	0.02​	0.69​	0​	0​	0.12​	0​	0​	0.16​
18. Maryland	5,300,000​	0.02​	0.82​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0.16​
19. Illinois	5,000,000​	0.62​	0.1​	0​	0​	0.15​	0.07​	0​	0.05​
20. Iroquoia	4,600,000​	0.03​	0.05​	0​	0.1​	0.73​	0​	0​	0.09​
21. Cherokee	4,100,000​	0.02​	0.27​	0.02​	0​	0.64​	0​	0​	0.05​
22. Muscogia	4,000,000​	0.05​	0.05​	0.26​	0​	0.61​	0​	0​	0.03​
23. Lower Connecticut	3,800,000​	0.02​	0.79​	0​	0.05​	0​	0​	0​	0.14​
24. Allegheny	3,600,000​	0.26​	0.27​	0​	0.26​	0.12​	0.06​	0​	0.03​
25. Upper Connecticut	3,200,000​	0.05​	0.83​	0​	0​	0.03​	0.03​	0​	0.06​
26. Upper Louisiana	2,700,000​	0.88​	0.03​	0.03​	0​	0.02​	0​	0​	0.04​
27. New Hampshire	2,600,000​	0.08​	0.85​	0​	0​	0.03​	0​	0​	0.04​
28. Chicasaw	2,600,000​	0.05​	0.27​	0.03​	0​	0.63​	0​	0​	0.02​
29. Christiana	2,400,000​	0.01​	0.36​	0​	0.1​	0.1​	0.03​	0.26​	0.14​
30. West Florida	2,100,000​	0.29​	0.28​	0.29​	0​	0.1​	0​	0​	0.04​
31. Assiniboia	1,700,000​	0.68​	0.05​	0​	0​	0.22​	0​	0​	0.05​
32. Poutaxia	1,700,000​	0.01​	0.4​	0​	0.41​	0.1​	0​	0​	0.08​
33. Arques	1,600,000​	0.55​	0.2​	0.1​	0​	0.1​	0​	0​	0.05​
34. Watauga	1,400,000​	0.01​	0.73​	0​	0​	0.23​	0​	0​	0.03​
35. Plymouth	1,400,000​	0.02​	0.78​	0​	0.02​	0.02​	0​	0​	0.16​
36. Saybrook	1,200,000​	0​	0.81​	0​	0.05​	0.05​	0​	0​	0.09​
37. Choctaw	1,000,000​	0.27​	0.03​	0.03​	0​	0.55​	0​	0​	0.02​
38. Rhode Island	800,000​	0​	0.78​	0​	0.03​	0.05​	0​	0​	0.14​
39. New Scotland	720,000​	0.45​	0.45​	0​	0​	0.02​	0​	0​	0.08​

I left the 12 smallest states unfinished as these together represent only around 1% of the ASB's population.

To get the "languages spoken", I assumed that that 40% of non-Francophones, 20% of non-Anglosphones, 15% of non-Hispanophones, and 15% of non-Batavophones would decide to learn that language. I got the 40% number from statistics on English language learning among Francophones in Quebec, and 20% from... Belgium, I think? The number of Francophones learning Dutch? Then I got 15% for Spanish and Dutch from statistics on Americans learning Spanish. In the end though, as the fact that they're all round numbers probably indicates, they're all pretty arbitrary.

For the native languages, I went off the relevant post. I looked at each state that was listed to have native speakers, and divided each one more or less evenly unless I felt one group should have more or less. Then I added them. The numbers I finally got were:

Spoiler

Muscogui	6359000​
Iroquois	4793167​
Cherokee	3140667​
Huron	2747867​
Chickasaw	2338000​
Dakota	2273200​
Ashinaabe	2207367​
Miami	1546867​
Shawnee	1546867​
Dhegiha	1098667​
Lenape	972666.7​
Choctaw	620000​
Mahican	363000​
Abenaki	198000​
Apalachi	195000​
Michif	187000​
Massachusett	162000​
Nipmuck	162000​
Timucua	125000​
Innu	60000​

I have very little faith in most of these numbers, and I think they ought to be significantly altered from how they are now.

Muscogee, in particular, is inflated due to the fact that Seminol was given South Florida's population. I think I reduced it a bit for the overall percentages to compensate for that, but the fact that it's widely spoken in some fairly populous areas gives it the edge on Iroquois, I feel.

 

[Griffin04]

You'll have to forgive my limited graphical capabilities, but maybe something like this? (Manitoba's otl coat of arms works really well here imo)

 

[Višeslav]

View attachment 521406

You'll have to forgive my limited graphical capabilities, but maybe something like this? (Manitoba's otl coat of arms works really well here imo)

"limited"
Is this for Rupert's Land?
I see the HBC blanket pattern.

It's great. Beautiful flag. Not a lot of, for lack of a better word, stripe pentacolors out there.
Would you like me to fix the frame around the COA?

 

[Griffin04]

"limited"
Is this for Rupert's Land?
I see the HBC blanket pattern.

It's great. Beautiful flag. Not a lot of, for lack of a better word, stripe pentacolors out there.
Would you like me to fix the frame around the COA?

Yep, for Rupertia! Thanks so much!! And yeah, sure, that would be great.