Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond

Yeah, TTL America being more consistent with democracies likely means we won't see the CIA supporting coups to install right wing, pro Washington leaders.
 
Great update, I enjoyed it.

A small nitpick, though: the Acts of Union took place in 1707, and only covered England and Scotland, not Wales (which had been part of England since 1542).
 
President_Lincoln, I note only one mention of Australia or New Zealand throughout your complete history, thus far. Why? Are we so unimportant to the world that you only see us as mercenaries, siding with the UK in it's fight against Communism in Rhodesia?

Australia is far, far more than just that. It is the home of (arguably) the best Cricket team, the best Rugby team and the best tennis players. It is home of the "fair go for all", where governments work for the betterment of all, no matter which side of politics they hail from.

IOTL Gough Whitlam was perhaps our greatest Prime Minister, taking us into the 1970s and ending 23 years of Liberal Party rule. He was deposed of course, though muck raking and a crooked Governor-General doing the bidding of Buck House and the Liberal Party leader, Malcolm Fraser.

Since then we have supported IOTL numerous pieces of US military adventurism and ended the occupation of East Timor by Indonesia. We were one of only three economies not to suffer a recession during the GFC (Global Financial Crises) and we bailed out the Asian economies when they collapsed. We have not had a recession ourselves in over 40 years.

Surely we deserve at least an occasional mention?

Apart from that, it is a great time line and I have enjoyed reading it from the start to the finish over the last fortnight.
 
President_Lincoln, I note only one mention of Australia or New Zealand throughout your complete history, thus far. Why? Are we so unimportant to the world that you only see us as mercenaries, siding with the UK in it's fight against Communism in Rhodesia?

Australia is far, far more than just that. It is the home of (arguably) the best Cricket team, the best Rugby team and the best tennis players. It is home of the "fair go for all", where governments work for the betterment of all, no matter which side of politics they hail from.

IOTL Gough Whitlam was perhaps our greatest Prime Minister, taking us into the 1970s and ending 23 years of Liberal Party rule. He was deposed of course, though muck raking and a crooked Governor-General doing the bidding of Buck House and the Liberal Party leader, Malcolm Fraser.

Since then we have supported IOTL numerous pieces of US military adventurism and ended the occupation of East Timor by Indonesia. We were one of only three economies not to suffer a recession during the GFC (Global Financial Crises) and we bailed out the Asian economies when they collapsed. We have not had a recession ourselves in over 40 years.

Surely we deserve at least an occasional mention?

Apart from that, it is a great time line and I have enjoyed reading it from the start to the finish over the last fortnight.
Nice to meet a fellow Aussie! I'm also curious about Australia and New Zealand in TTL. I agree Gough Whitlam was our greatest Prime Minister alongside the late great Bob Hawke
 
Rickshaw and Kennedy Forever; It's because we know that Australia and New Zealand don't really exist and are just a conspiracy thought up by the British to mess with the American's and these forums don't allow discussion of such stuff... ;D

Seriously no idea, you folks stay safe and take care :)

Randy
 
Rickshaw and Kennedy Forever; It's because we know that Australia and New Zealand don't really exist and are just a conspiracy thought up by the British to mess with the American's and these forums don't allow discussion of such stuff... ;D

Seriously no idea, you folks stay safe and take care :)

Randy
Cheers Randy
 
Wasn't Whitlam the guy that was couped out by the CIA?

So, some people claim. Remember, this was 1975, only three years after Allende was "couped out by the CIA" in Chile. Personally, while I acknowledge that the CIA was mixed into Australia's politics in the day (re: Nugen-Hand Bank), ultimately, Gough's dismissal was very much a home-grown affair. Australian politics is a complex mix and Kerr's (the Governor-General) exercise of the GG's "reserve powers" was very much unknown territory for everybody concerned. While not unconstitutional it was new territory. No GG had exercised those powers before. Gough was also much an agent of his own demise. If he hadn't hesitated for a meal of Steak and Chips (French Fries to our American cousins) on 11 November 1975, he would have dismissed Kerr himself (which was in the powers of the PM). Kerr had taken illegal advice from the Chief Justice of the High Court, Sir Garfield Barwick and the leader of the Opposition - Malcolm Fraser. The end result of was that the Gough got given the sack. Fraser went on to win the General Election that was called as a consequence.

That Fraser had manufactured the circumstances which had resulted in Gough's sacking went by the wayside to the Australian public. We ended up with a Liberal (Tory) conservative government and an economic downturn until Bob Hawke (recently deceased and another great Australian PM) was elected in 1983. I was 15 years old when Gough was given the sack and I will always remember the shock that went through my household upon receipt of the news. Republicanism received a real boost as a consequence but the Liberal (Tory) conservative PM in 1999 cleverly structured the Referendum to make sure it was defeated.
 
So, some people claim. Remember, this was 1975, only three years after Allende was "couped out by the CIA" in Chile. Personally, while I acknowledge that the CIA was mixed into Australia's politics in the day (re: Nugen-Hand Bank), ultimately, Gough's dismissal was very much a home-grown affair. Australian politics is a complex mix and Kerr's (the Governor-General) exercise of the GG's "reserve powers" was very much unknown territory for everybody concerned. While not unconstitutional it was new territory. No GG had exercised those powers before. Gough was also much an agent of his own demise. If he hadn't hesitated for a meal of Steak and Chips (French Fries to our American cousins) on 11 November 1975, he would have dismissed Kerr himself (which was in the powers of the PM). Kerr had taken illegal advice from the Chief Justice of the High Court, Sir Garfield Barwick and the leader of the Opposition - Malcolm Fraser. The end result of was that the Gough got given the sack. Fraser went on to win the General Election that was called as a consequence.

That Fraser had manufactured the circumstances which had resulted in Gough's sacking went by the wayside to the Australian public. We ended up with a Liberal (Tory) conservative government and an economic downturn until Bob Hawke (recently deceased and another great Australian PM) was elected in 1983. I was 15 years old when Gough was given the sack and I will always remember the shock that went through my household upon receipt of the news. Republicanism received a real boost as a consequence but the Liberal (Tory) conservative PM in 1999 cleverly structured the Referendum to make sure it was defeated.
All true. I often wonder what could of been if in 1999 we had chosen to become a Republic. How different things now would be
 
All true. I often wonder what could of been if in 1999 we had chosen to become a Republic. How different things now would be

Australia would be basically the same it is today. The only real difference would that we, the Australian people would elect the President/Governor-General. How that would be achieved would be either through direct election (which would never be favourite with the Parliament) or indirectly through the Parliament (which obvious would be favoured by Parliament). Perhaps the Indigenous "Voice to Parliament" might also occur. However, both those these are far in the future of TTL.
 
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Australia would be basically the same it is today. The only real difference would that we, the Australian people would elect the President/Governor-General. How that would be achieved would be either through direct election (which would never be favourite with the Parliament) or indirectly through the Parliament (which obvious would be favoured by Parliament). Perhaps the Indigenous "Voice to Parliament" might also occur. However, both those this are far in the future of TTL.
Yes of course.
 
President_Lincoln, I note only one mention of Australia or New Zealand throughout your complete history, thus far. Why? Are we so unimportant to the world that you only see us as mercenaries, siding with the UK in it's fight against Communism in Rhodesia?

Australia is far, far more than just that. It is the home of (arguably) the best Cricket team, the best Rugby team and the best tennis players. It is home of the "fair go for all", where governments work for the betterment of all, no matter which side of politics they hail from.

IOTL Gough Whitlam was perhaps our greatest Prime Minister, taking us into the 1970s and ending 23 years of Liberal Party rule. He was deposed of course, though muck raking and a crooked Governor-General doing the bidding of Buck House and the Liberal Party leader, Malcolm Fraser.

Since then we have supported IOTL numerous pieces of US military adventurism and ended the occupation of East Timor by Indonesia. We were one of only three economies not to suffer a recession during the GFC (Global Financial Crises) and we bailed out the Asian economies when they collapsed. We have not had a recession ourselves in over 40 years.

Surely we deserve at least an occasional mention?

Apart from that, it is a great time line and I have enjoyed reading it from the start to the finish over the last fortnight.

@Rickshaw, thank you for your kind words and absolutely fair critique about the timeline thus far! I want to apologize in the strongest possible terms for the lack of attention paid to Australia and New Zealand so far in Blue Skies in Camelot. I am so pleased to have you as a reader and several other readers from the Land Down Under as well. Welcome aboard! :)

You bring up some excellent points about your home country, and I want to offer not just my apology, but an attempt to rectify the situation as well. Having now been made aware of the deficit of ANZAC-focused updates, I plan on writing one as soon as possible and posting it either next (and editting the last chapter's preview to reflect this change), or just after the next coming update. Australia is not just a beautiful country with a fascinating history and a rich cultural landscape, it is, as you mention, something of an economic powerhouse and indisputable sporting juggernaut! :D

I would also like to take this opportunity to inform you all that while I will continue my goal of 1 update per week moving forward, as you have probably already noticed, this goal is proving more difficult than I had anticipated given my recent change in schedule. I am currently completing my final semester at University and because of an excellent but grueling internship, I am often getting home quite late and too tired to write/contribute much more than maybe a few hundred words at a time. I will try to make up for lost ground over the weekends, but seeing as I do have a small, but happy social life and other hobbies (D&D, especially), it may take 2-3 weeks for me to get a new update out for the forseeable future. Thank you all for your readership and patience. Do not worry. Blue Skies will continue!
 
@Rickshaw, thank you for your kind words and absolutely fair critique about the timeline thus far! I want to apologize in the strongest possible terms for the lack of attention paid to Australia and New Zealand so far in Blue Skies in Camelot. I am so pleased to have you as a reader and several other readers from the Land Down Under as well. Welcome aboard! :)

You bring up some excellent points about your home country, and I want to offer not just my apology, but an attempt to rectify the situation as well. Having now been made aware of the deficit of ANZAC-focused updates, I plan on writing one as soon as possible and posting it either next (and editting the last chapter's preview to reflect this change), or just after the next coming update. Australia is not just a beautiful country with a fascinating history and a rich cultural landscape, it is, as you mention, something of an economic powerhouse and indisputable sporting juggernaut! :D

I would also like to take this opportunity to inform you all that while I will continue my goal of 1 update per week moving forward, as you have probably already noticed, this goal is proving more difficult than I had anticipated given my recent change in schedule. I am currently completing my final semester at University and because of an excellent but grueling internship, I am often getting home quite late and too tired to write/contribute much more than maybe a few hundred words at a time. I will try to make up for lost ground over the weekends, but seeing as I do have a small, but happy social life and other hobbies (D&D, especially), it may take 2-3 weeks for me to get a new update out for the forseeable future. Thank you all for your readership and patience. Do not worry. Blue Skies will continue!
No worries Mr President we understand real life gets in the way. I for one am excited to see the Australian New Zealand update as well as what has changed for both countries in Blue Skies.
 
@Rickshaw, thank you for your kind words and absolutely fair critique about the timeline thus far! I want to apologize in the strongest possible terms for the lack of attention paid to Australia and New Zealand so far in Blue Skies in Camelot. I am so pleased to have you as a reader and several other readers from the Land Down Under as well. Welcome aboard! :)

You bring up some excellent points about your home country, and I want to offer not just my apology, but an attempt to rectify the situation as well. Having now been made aware of the deficit of ANZAC-focused updates, I plan on writing one as soon as possible and posting it either next (and editting the last chapter's preview to reflect this change), or just after the next coming update. Australia is not just a beautiful country with a fascinating history and a rich cultural landscape, it is, as you mention, something of an economic powerhouse and indisputable sporting juggernaut! :D

I would also like to take this opportunity to inform you all that while I will continue my goal of 1 update per week moving forward, as you have probably already noticed, this goal is proving more difficult than I had anticipated given my recent change in schedule. I am currently completing my final semester at University and because of an excellent but grueling internship, I am often getting home quite late and too tired to write/contribute much more than maybe a few hundred words at a time. I will try to make up for lost ground over the weekends, but seeing as I do have a small, but happy social life and other hobbies (D&D, especially), it may take 2-3 weeks for me to get a new update out for the forseeable future. Thank you all for your readership and patience. Do not worry. Blue Skies will continue!

Thank you for your kind words. I look forward to seeing the article about the land Downunder and Sydney's Breakwater. ;)
 
Thank you for your kind words. I look forward to seeing the article about the land Downunder and Sydney's Breakwater. ;)
It might be interesting in an ANZAC update to see how much the struggle of Australia's First People for basic human rights was informed by the potentially much stronger (and arguably more successful) path of struggle for America's First Nations ITTL in the 1960s and 1970s in addition to the inspiration they drew IOTL from the Civil Rights movement. And also how this might have crossed 'the Ditch' to NZ in the Maori rights movement (which admittedly I don't know much about).
 
It might be interesting in an ANZAC update to see how much the struggle of Australia's First People for basic human rights was informed by the potentially much stronger (and arguably more successful) path of struggle for America's First Nations ITTL in the 1960s and 1970s in addition to the inspiration they drew IOTL from the Civil Rights movement. And also how this might have crossed 'the Ditch' to NZ in the Maori rights movement (which admittedly I don't know much about).

A small part, as far as I know. It was important in that it helped formulate the "Freedom Rides" in the early 1960s - where university students travelled around New South Wales by bus to show that Indigenous Australians were being unfairly and illegally discriminated against. It stirred up a lot of anger, revealing the hypocrisy of a lot of Australians.

A much larger part was played by South African under apartheid. Australia was very critical of the RSA in OTL. When the South Africans attempted to rebuff that criticism by pointing out how badly we treated our Indigenous Australians, the Australian Government put in place the 1967 referendum that recognised them as being citizens. A referendum it should noted which was not expected to pass but did. The Australian people were well aware of the rough deal that colonisation had dealt the Indigenous Australians and decided to put it right. The referendum granted them full citizenship rights and universal suffrage (before the referendum, individual states had their own laws on voting but they weren't universal across the country). Since 1967, the Indigenous Australians have traveled more and read more.

In New Zealand they had the Waitangi Treaty. A treaty signed between the warring tribes and the English settlers in 1840. The English however gave the Maoris one version of the treaty, translated one way and themselves the other which favoured them. The Maoris took the white settlers to court in 1960 and since then it has formed the basis of a great deal of Kiwi law.

A treaty is something missing from Australia. Terra Nullius meant that a treaty was impossible. Indeed, when John Batman (yes there was an explorer named Batman ;) ) signed a treaty between himself (as a representative of the Crown) and Indigenous Australians in the colony of Victoria it was later rescinded because of Terra Nullius which held that because Indigenous Australians were nomadic they didn't own the land. Terra Nullius was overturned by the Mabo case (Eddie Mabo was a Torres Strait Islander who brought a case against the Australian Government over land he owned). Since then, we have had Native Title legislation passed that brings the concept of well, native title into the existing land title system in Australia.

There has been a lot of racism downunder and a lot of scaremongering as a consequence. Some at least of that has faded. Australia Day however remains a bone of contention and the lack of an Indigenous Australians' "Voice to Parliament". Australia Day or Invasion Day as many Indigenous people prefer to call it, commorates when the first settlers came ashore in Sydney in 1788. However it wasn't celebrated nationwide until 1988. 1 January 1901 is the date that Australia as a nation was created through federation. Before then it was just six separate colonies. IMO we should be celebrating 1 January not 26 January. Leave 26 January to NSW. It is their foundation day.

The "Voice to Parliament" is more problematic. The Australian Federal Government called Indigenous Australians together and they met at Uluaru (Ayres Rock) in 2017. They were asked basically what they wanted and they come up with a demand for recognition to be included in our Constitution and a "voice to Parliament". They were flatly, outright refused by the same Government that called them together! The Liberal Party Government will forever live in infamy IMO because of their outright refusal to listen to the very voices they called together! Since then a great many rumours, innuendo and outright lies have flown about, about what the Voice to Parliament would be. The Indigenous Australians were asking merely to be conferred with over legislation that might affect them. They were not asking for a separate chamber or anything like that. Recognition will come eventually and hopefully also a "Voice to Parliament".
 
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