I've just finished reading back through the timeline; Aururian (specifically Nangu) sailors were mentioned as sailing to Europe themselves by the 1690s and obviously at this point in the timeline (1730s-ish) they have low-level but established sailing links there, but I don't believe the actual moment of the first Nangu sailor reaching Europe was depicted, which was presumably a quite momentous event at the time and would have caused a hell of a stir. Who did it, what happened, how did the Europeans react?
Lands of Red and Gold, Act II
- Thread starter Jared
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A Tjibarri conquest of the Island does seem implausible, not least because it doesn't seem like the Tjibarr never really developed the know-how to pull off an amphibious invasion, even one across a narrow strait, with all the logistical and technical challenges that poses (and not least because any such invasion could almost certainly only be staged from the Copper Coast, where securing the region itself would have always taken a priority). But I would be surprised if one of the factions never stumbled across the "so long as the Raw Men can reach us but we cannot reach the Raw Men, we are at a permanent disadvantage" insight that the Nangu bloodlines did, and with the remnant Islander social infrastructure and pre-existing trade heavily disrupted by the diaspora and the effective vassalisation of the Mutjing by the VOC, it wouldn't be surprising if - indeed somewhat surprising if not - some of the Tjibarri factions attempted to co-opt the remaining Nangu bloodlines (however many still exist on the Island) and tried to use them to develop a sort of second-hand maritime tradition. Especially since the Tjibarri seem to quite clearly perceive that the Europeans represent an existential threat to their sovereignty as much, indeed even more, than the Dominion did, and that the only path to survival was to match the Europeans in any way they could.
If nothing else, a faction which managed in some ways to emulate the Nuttana's feats in setting up a trading network in Asia independent of the European powers would make itself very, very rich.
This is the main reason why a Tjibarri Kangaroo Island would be beneficial to both sides. The Islanders would be down for naval adventure and could achieve great things but need investment/alternate source of food imports at the very least. Tjibarr has those things and should be willing to spend them to get a giant naval base (and later "unsinkable aircraft carrier") to guard their coast. Whether that's enough reason for a union to actually happen is anyone's guess.
The first Nuttana visit to Europe was noteworthy, but didn't really cause that much of a stir, because by then most Europeans - or at least those in ports - knew who the Nuttana were. The Nuttana have been trading with Europeans for a while, starting in Batavia/Jakarta, then in India, then at the Cape, then in parts of Brazil, and then into the North Atlantic. People knew who they were, and while they were seen as strange, they weren't viewed as something out of nowhere. They were certainly greeted and (on the whole) welcomed, but they weren't seen as something shocking or even particularly unexpected.
The historical example I'm thinking off is how Meiji Japan sent its first (Dutch-built) its first ship to sail to the United States in 1860 - those were an embassy who were certainly welcomed and celebrated, but not really a stir out of nowhere.
The contact was much more momentous for the Nuttana than it was for the Europeans; for the Nuttana, it was a great achievement, while for the Europeans it was more like "oh, you're here."
I do actually plan on depicting the first Nuttana visit to Europe in one of the chapters in the novels (it will be book 3), so I haven't gone into all of the details, but that's generally how it played out.
The Tjibarri have been developing their own maritime tradition for a few decades. This was touched on in chapter #112, where a Nangu captain notes that one Nangu bloodline has fled the Island en toto for Tjibarr, and that the Tjibarri are always trying to recruit experienced Nangu sailing captains.
What's happened in Tjibarr was that in pre-Houtmanian times they were hampered in developing their own maritime tradition because they always struggled to hold a decent port in the Copper Coast. Jugara/Victor Harbor was regularly traded with the Yadji in warfare, and so didn't serve to build up a seafaring tradition. While they usually held some level of control over the more northerly ports of the Copper Coast (except Dogport/Port Augusta, which was part of the Nangu colonial empire), their control was tenuous and their logistics stretched enough that it didn't help them to develop a strong maritime tradition.
This changed post-European contact. Tjibarr now holds the Copper Coast much more securely, with roads built to some of the other established ports on the Copper Coast quite early, and then they took over Dogport and later Jugara. They've held some of those ports for quite a while, and with horses and decent roads, their logistics to those ports are much better. Tjibarr always had a strong shipbuilding tradition for riverine ships - that's been the lifeblood of their commerce for centuries. With their more secure control over the coast, and recruitment of some Nangu experts, they've developed their own maritime tradition.
So far, the Tjibarri have concentrated mostly on short-distance voyages. The biggest part of their trade is simply around the Spencer Gulf. A lot of commerce flows both ways there: food, salt, charcoal, some copper from the Mutjing and parts of Durigal, with Tjibarri manufactured goods going the other way. Not dramatic profits from each voyage, but a reliably profitable and growing trade. Some Tjibarri do venture further. So far they're a small number, but that may change over time.
In terms of conquest of the Island, bluntly, from a military point of view the Tjibarri could do it if they wanted to. The Nangu are not what they once were, in terms of ships or population. The Tjibarri still can't match the Nuttana or even the Nangu for long-distance navigation, but in terms of conquering the Island, it would be a case of the Tjibarri can project power that far.
The will is lacking, however, for the reasons spelled out earlier, but in brief, because the costs would be more than the gains. Mutjing and Dutch antagonised, Yadji more suspicious, and for very little profits above what they could trade for anyway.
The Island would offer some benefits as a military base, but not really that much past what they already have in Dogport and Taparee/Port Pirie. Tjibarri would broadly speaking see it as more trouble than it was worth.
I do agree that a military conquest would be a lot more trouble than its worth, and the strategic benefits are either marginal or far too long term to really be worthwhile right now while it's basically state-level life and death still at stake. Still, though, I do wonder if aiming for a sort of sphere-of-influence sort of arrangement - an idea that is certainly within the Five Rivers' box of statecraft tools - could be very alluring to some Tjibarri factions. But if they end up developing a blue-water tradition of their own through ingenuity and paying for Nangu expertise, then that might well be moot. Especially if the bloodline that moved to Tjibarr kept some of its traditions in its new home. Of course, the Dutch may have something to say about any such attempts, and that might be the strongest deterrent of all.
It's certainly fair to say that the Tjibarri factions compete for influence in the Island, though that's mostly in terms of favourable trade arrangements than formal sphere of influence per se. One of the factors which prevents a more solid sphere of influence is the way the Tjibarri factions compete with each other for influence on the Island.
As an aside, the region which is really more of a Tjibarri sphere of influence is Valk Land/Seven Sisters/the Mutjing. Despite being a formal Dutch protectorate, the Dutch have actually not found much economic use for it except as a victualling station. (They export a little salt but not much else). Tjibarri trade with the Seven Sisters is much higher-volume than any Dutch contact, and takes place under the aegis of Tjibarr being a notional area of Dutch influence, so trade there isn't really seen as threatening the Dutch or in commodities which the Dutch care about. The VOC largely ignores such local-level shipping in goods as not providing sufficient profit to be worth the trouble.
It's also quite true that the Dutch would be more worried if the Tjibarri were shipping goods over long distances. A certain amount of that could be smoothed over if the Tjibarri were just replacing the Nuttana trade (things like shipping kunduri to Dutch trading posts in Batavia/Jakarta or the Cape) to trade with the Dutch elsewhere, but even that would still be precarious.
Two Weeks On
It's now been two weeks since Book 1 of Lands of Red and Gold was published. I'd like to say a heartfelt thank you to all of the readers of this thread who bought a copy of it - it has sold better than I was expecting, for which I am very thankful.
For anyone who has read the book and liked it, I would be extremely grateful if you could write a short review on Amazon and/or Goodreads. Reviews don't have to be very long - even a brief comment is welcomed. Automated book recommendations on Amazon are governed by the almighty algorithm, which focuses more on the number of reviews than their length or quality (or even if they are favourable), so I'd welcome all reviews.
For anyone who missed the announcement the first time around, this is Book 1:
It is available as an e-book on Amazon, from the US (here), UK (here) or Australia (here). It's not yet available as a paperback, although I will advise in this thread if and when it gets released as one.
I'm now working on getting Book 2 finalised for publication, but this is taking longer than expected because of the volume of additional material I'm writing for it. As mentioned, I will still be making some timeline updates within this thread too - that continues - but that will be after Book 2 is finalised.
I've also created an author page on Facebook (here). I'll be providing some bonus bits/special features on there from time to time as well, so you can also like that page to be informed of updates.
It's now been two weeks since Book 1 of Lands of Red and Gold was published. I'd like to say a heartfelt thank you to all of the readers of this thread who bought a copy of it - it has sold better than I was expecting, for which I am very thankful.
For anyone who has read the book and liked it, I would be extremely grateful if you could write a short review on Amazon and/or Goodreads. Reviews don't have to be very long - even a brief comment is welcomed. Automated book recommendations on Amazon are governed by the almighty algorithm, which focuses more on the number of reviews than their length or quality (or even if they are favourable), so I'd welcome all reviews.
For anyone who missed the announcement the first time around, this is Book 1:
It is available as an e-book on Amazon, from the US (here), UK (here) or Australia (here). It's not yet available as a paperback, although I will advise in this thread if and when it gets released as one.
I'm now working on getting Book 2 finalised for publication, but this is taking longer than expected because of the volume of additional material I'm writing for it. As mentioned, I will still be making some timeline updates within this thread too - that continues - but that will be after Book 2 is finalised.
I've also created an author page on Facebook (here). I'll be providing some bonus bits/special features on there from time to time as well, so you can also like that page to be informed of updates.
The limiting factor is more water availability than food production. With twenty-first century technology, importing food is relatively cheap, while managing water production in Australia is much more complex. This is why I'm skeptical of the 100 million figure (50 million is quite doable with the right management).
Crops such as the red yam reduce water consumption, although they are much harder to mechanise their farming that wheat or even potatoes. As such, I'd say that while the sustainable population would be higher than it is in OTL, I'm not sure how much higher.
Maybe a brother of the same name?Not the Peter Gabriel!?
@Jared
www.independent.co.uk
Australia wildfires reveal ancient aboriginal aquaculture system built before the Egyptian pyramids
New survey of site due to take place in light of discovery
www.independent.co.uk
@Jared
Australia wildfires reveal ancient aboriginal aquaculture system built before the Egyptian pyramids
New survey of site due to take place in light of discovery
Despite the misleading headline in the article, there's not much that's new here. This is the Gunditjmara aquaculture system which I included (in modified form) as the Junditmara who formed the core of the Yadji realm.
Archaeologists and indigenous peoples already knew that the aquaculture system was larger than what has been excavated so far. (And what I depicted in LoRaG was also larger than what was known). What's happened is that the bushfires have made it easier to inspect some of the other sites. Very interesting for research purposes and potentially for those who get to visit the sites, but nothing which changes what was written in LoRaG.
Archaeological evidence (dating of change in vegetation) suggests that the aquaculture system (or a precursor) started around 8000 years ago. The oldest dated surviving stone dwellings are more recent than that (6600 years in that article, though I've seen other dates which vary a bit from that), but part of the same culture. I had the Junditmara emerge around the same time, so again nothing which needs to change.
Ah, I thought your narrative started much later than that. The perils of slow burn story telling.
Aururian Fire Management
Thought I'd share something which while, not exactly a new LoRaG entry, gives some insight into how different the LoRaG world is from OTL Australia.
It seems to have been covered around the world that Australia has been having significant bushfires this summer. An area of over 186,000 square kilometres has been burnt, or to put it in BBC measurements, an area over three-quarters the size of the United Kingdom. There has been substantial property destruction and tragic consequences for many of the native fauna (and to a lesser degree, flora). Some of the smoke from the bushfires was projected to travel all of the way around the world (over South America) and return to Australia from the other side.
I was asked a question in another thread about how bushfires happened in LoRaG Australia, and I thought it would be worth useful to repeat and develop that answer more in this thread. This has been aided by a recent demonstration of how effective Aboriginal peoples' use of managed fire was at reducing the risk of fire destruction of inhabited areas.
There are three reasons why bushfires are less of a threat in LoRaG Australia than in OTL Australia (though still a threat, certainly). I've ranked them from least to most important.
Firstly, arson. This has become rather a political topic of late due to certain media commentators within Australia attributing the current bushfire season damage to arson rather than any possible effects of climate change. I'll leave the political aspects of that to the Chat forum, except to note that that fact-checking in response to this has corrected some misconceptions on my own part. The evidence indicates that about 1% of the area burned in the current and recent fire seasons has been due to arson. The percentage of fire started by human activity may be higher, but the most damaging ones have other or unknown causes (lightning strikes, accidental human activity, etc).
However, whatever percentage of fires are caused by arson in OTL Australia, this is much lower in Aururia. Arson is less of a concern amongst Aururian societies because they have a much harsher approach to anyone suspected of lighting fires at the wrong time of year. (Short version, they don't wait for a court to decide.). Punishment in some form extends to the broader family, not just the individuals. Harsh, and not exactly fair by modern standards, but it has the desired deterrent effect.
The second reason why bushfires are much less destructive to Aururian peoples is that the nature of Aururian agriculture is that their dwellings are usually a good way from bushland. Aururian farmers clear the land around them for various agricultural purposes. In OTL Australia, houses are very rarely destroyed if they are more than 500 metres from the bush, and almost never if they are more than 650 metres. In ATL Aururia, actual home dwellings are usually further from the bush than that. So with most Aururian houses outside of that range, the damage to dwellings is much less.
The third and by far the most important reason is that because the Aururians developed from previous existing cultures, they have retained more of a tradition of land management to minimise the risk of uncontrolled fires. Aboriginal peoples had an extremely complex system of doing controlled burns of the forest at chosen times of year, taking into account type of soil and vegetation, times that plants flowered, and a lot of other things. ATL Aururians have preserved that tradition - it's not the sort of thing that they would give up.
To over-simplify, this means that Aururians do things like controlled burn-offs in cooler months to reduce the vegetation load around their agricultural regions, which means that bushfires are much less devastating when they occur. Their method of doing burn-offs is also distinctly different to modern hazard reduction-burning, being (among other things) less intense and less inclined to get into the tree canopy. While different, it works very well.
The effectiveness of Aboriginal peoples' methods of controlled burning was rather convincingly demonstrated in a recent case during this bushfire season. I've linked to the full newspaper article below, but in brief what happened was that in one part of the Hunter Valley in NSW, a homeowner had to evacuate his bushland property due to a spreading firefront. He came back a couple of days later expecting everything to be in ruins, as had happened to other properties in the area. His main dwelling was entirely untouched by fire, and surrounded by a small patch of green vegetation.
The reason for this is that three years earlier, the area surrounding that property had been given a controlled burn in the traditional manner of Aboriginal peoples. This meant that because the undergrowth had been (mostly) cleared, the fire didn't spread to that region, leaving this owner's main dwellings intact. The only building that was burnt was a shed 500 metres away which was outside the area of the controlled burn.
In ATL Aururia, while there will of course still be times when bushfires get out of hand and cause destruction, they will be much less than in modern Australia.
Short version: Aboriginal cultural burning works.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ing-saved-their-property-20200103-p53okc.html
It seems to have been covered around the world that Australia has been having significant bushfires this summer. An area of over 186,000 square kilometres has been burnt, or to put it in BBC measurements, an area over three-quarters the size of the United Kingdom. There has been substantial property destruction and tragic consequences for many of the native fauna (and to a lesser degree, flora). Some of the smoke from the bushfires was projected to travel all of the way around the world (over South America) and return to Australia from the other side.
I was asked a question in another thread about how bushfires happened in LoRaG Australia, and I thought it would be worth useful to repeat and develop that answer more in this thread. This has been aided by a recent demonstration of how effective Aboriginal peoples' use of managed fire was at reducing the risk of fire destruction of inhabited areas.
There are three reasons why bushfires are less of a threat in LoRaG Australia than in OTL Australia (though still a threat, certainly). I've ranked them from least to most important.
Firstly, arson. This has become rather a political topic of late due to certain media commentators within Australia attributing the current bushfire season damage to arson rather than any possible effects of climate change. I'll leave the political aspects of that to the Chat forum, except to note that that fact-checking in response to this has corrected some misconceptions on my own part. The evidence indicates that about 1% of the area burned in the current and recent fire seasons has been due to arson. The percentage of fire started by human activity may be higher, but the most damaging ones have other or unknown causes (lightning strikes, accidental human activity, etc).
However, whatever percentage of fires are caused by arson in OTL Australia, this is much lower in Aururia. Arson is less of a concern amongst Aururian societies because they have a much harsher approach to anyone suspected of lighting fires at the wrong time of year. (Short version, they don't wait for a court to decide.). Punishment in some form extends to the broader family, not just the individuals. Harsh, and not exactly fair by modern standards, but it has the desired deterrent effect.
The second reason why bushfires are much less destructive to Aururian peoples is that the nature of Aururian agriculture is that their dwellings are usually a good way from bushland. Aururian farmers clear the land around them for various agricultural purposes. In OTL Australia, houses are very rarely destroyed if they are more than 500 metres from the bush, and almost never if they are more than 650 metres. In ATL Aururia, actual home dwellings are usually further from the bush than that. So with most Aururian houses outside of that range, the damage to dwellings is much less.
The third and by far the most important reason is that because the Aururians developed from previous existing cultures, they have retained more of a tradition of land management to minimise the risk of uncontrolled fires. Aboriginal peoples had an extremely complex system of doing controlled burns of the forest at chosen times of year, taking into account type of soil and vegetation, times that plants flowered, and a lot of other things. ATL Aururians have preserved that tradition - it's not the sort of thing that they would give up.
To over-simplify, this means that Aururians do things like controlled burn-offs in cooler months to reduce the vegetation load around their agricultural regions, which means that bushfires are much less devastating when they occur. Their method of doing burn-offs is also distinctly different to modern hazard reduction-burning, being (among other things) less intense and less inclined to get into the tree canopy. While different, it works very well.
The effectiveness of Aboriginal peoples' methods of controlled burning was rather convincingly demonstrated in a recent case during this bushfire season. I've linked to the full newspaper article below, but in brief what happened was that in one part of the Hunter Valley in NSW, a homeowner had to evacuate his bushland property due to a spreading firefront. He came back a couple of days later expecting everything to be in ruins, as had happened to other properties in the area. His main dwelling was entirely untouched by fire, and surrounded by a small patch of green vegetation.
The reason for this is that three years earlier, the area surrounding that property had been given a controlled burn in the traditional manner of Aboriginal peoples. This meant that because the undergrowth had been (mostly) cleared, the fire didn't spread to that region, leaving this owner's main dwellings intact. The only building that was burnt was a shed 500 metres away which was outside the area of the controlled burn.
In ATL Aururia, while there will of course still be times when bushfires get out of hand and cause destruction, they will be much less than in modern Australia.
Short version: Aboriginal cultural burning works.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ing-saved-their-property-20200103-p53okc.html
Fabulous that there's been published accounts of the Aboriginal burning techniques' success. Do you think that between this and the preceding decade of studies into precolonial land management/cultivation, we could be seeing the start of big changes in how Aboriginal culture/knowledge is viewed by Aboriginals/wider society? You know, taking on tangible, quantifiable importance and all that. It's a question with some implications for India, whose scientific/business community is split between dismissing traditional knowledge and trying to simplify/commodify it as kitschy Ayurveda/Y O G I C products.
Also, with arson being treated as such a high crime, has the idea of the arsonist become a kind of cultural touchstone/archetype for absolute, uncaring evil? Someone that simply doesn't care about his community, and can't be integrated into it like other people? Someone outside the patterns of nature, beyond the bounds of humanity?
Lastly I think you should threadmark this fire post. Valuable stuff for later reads/rereads.
Also, with arson being treated as such a high crime, has the idea of the arsonist become a kind of cultural touchstone/archetype for absolute, uncaring evil? Someone that simply doesn't care about his community, and can't be integrated into it like other people? Someone outside the patterns of nature, beyond the bounds of humanity?
Lastly I think you should threadmark this fire post. Valuable stuff for later reads/rereads.
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I actually completely agree that, for Tjibarr, antagonizing the Dutch is not a good idea. I imagine that the VOC has quite the army of "Sepoys" at this point just from western Aururia, let alone Indonesia. Admittedly the Dutch would have a hard time conquering Tjibarr, but the Tjibarri don't want to risk it.