Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II

Hopefully the New Three Furies will get to enjoy that stack of RMs.
Knowing Kiki it will all go to a deserving cause, (much to the dismay of Zella).
With Mithras out of the picture the audit is going full steam and the Financier can try to get the Kaiser to delay but the Kaiser is going to listen to Kat and follow her recommendation.
 
Knowing Kiki it will all go to a deserving cause, (much to the dismay of Zella).
With Mithras out of the picture the audit is going full steam and the Financier can try to get the Kaiser to delay but the Kaiser is going to listen to Kat and follow her recommendation.
Hey now, Kiki might snag a fresh Hertha jersey out of it, and take Zella and Aurora out for lunch before donating it to charity. :p

Say, all those female Russian former POWs might need some help.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
Aurora literally just hit an as-of-then legally innocent man with her car on circumstantial evidence.

Its not even a crime of passion like that Professor's wife and the hammer, it's textbook vehicular assault.

And Zella has just barely started pulling her own weight without leaning on mommy's nepotism, and is still broadly an awful awful girl.

The only one who might have some moral claim to that money is Kiki, and it's probably literally her money.
 
Many are basing their perspective on this matter on what they know and Mithras getting hit really was an accident. Currently no one has put all the pieces together enough to see the whole picture.
 
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Mithras is in big trouble now, but
He knows he was hit by a brown Opel. At some point he will see Aurora's car plus dent. He knows Aurora and of her friendship with Kiki. He is still free so he can assume that Aurora has not gone to the authorities. He will have no choice but to try to get the envelope back from them.
 
Many are basing their perspective on this matter on what they know and Mithras getting hit really was an accident. Currently no one has put all the pieces together enough to see the whole picture.

It's a matter of what is going to fly in a court of law, not what is technically true. "I accidently hit the guy I have been tailing for weeks, and only robbed him afterwards on impulse." is going to be a hard sell.

If they do manage to legally nail him to the wall, they'll probably be able to get away with it, though.
 
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No, that will be evidence.
The Photo:
Ben - 2/1
JFK - Evens

The money:
Either to pay for the assassination, or, if its for JFK, a bribe, (because obviously lawyers are corrupt, and American lawyers, doubly so... [/s]
 
Aurora literally just hit an as-of-then legally innocent man with her car on circumstantial evidence.

Its not even a crime of passion like that Professor's wife and the hammer, it's textbook vehicular assault.

And Zella has just barely started pulling her own weight without leaning on mommy's nepotism, and is still broadly an awful awful girl.

The only one who might have some moral claim to that money is Kiki, and it's probably literally her money.

Even if all the Mithras stuff does come out, Aurora is going to be screwed if Mithras's mother takes a Civil Suit against her, I'm assuming in this case that the crash was bad enough to cause life altering injuries, as even a low speed collision can make a person wheelchair bound, if not bedbound, for the rest of their life.

No matter how this is cut, she now owes damages towards him, would be a nice realistic sting to drive home the point to them that playing spy is a stupid thing to do. Especially as there is a police report that would be perfect evidence in a court room to prove this. There is no need to prove "guilt" in a civil suit, only that it happened.
 
“Your Honor, I was driving the speed limit and out of nowhere this man suddenly stepped out in front of me between two parked cars not paying attention to the traffic and I hit him before I could reasonably react”.
 
“Your Honor, I was driving the speed limit and out of nowhere this man suddenly stepped out in front of me between two parked cars not paying attention to the traffic and I hit him before I could reasonably react”.

"Responsibility is on road users at all times to be able to react. Even if you could not reasonably react, you still hit the individual and thus the court finds in favour of damages to the plaintiff."

She hit him. In a civil suit, that is all that matters. Judge might choose to not award punitive damages, but they will award damages.

Hell, even if Mithras is only coming away from this with a broken arm, is found out, and is sent to prison. He could still sue Aurora for damages, and most likely win the case.
 
As Mithras was jaywalking over a for him red traffic light, while Auora had green, I really, really doupt any charges would stick to her. The situation is very clearcut, he walked into rolling traffic. No fault of hers. Mithras chances to win that one for damage are nonexistant.
This is not america where one can win for civil damage when the coffee is hot or the cat doesn't survive being dried in the microwave. Common sense does get applied in europe.
 
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No matter how this is cut, she now owes damages towards him, would be a nice realistic sting to drive home the point to them that playing spy is a stupid thing to do.

That's what insurance is for. Hopefully it's a requirement ITTL. If so, that's the third party injury paid for.

You make an interesting point about a civil case though:

If once everything comes out, Mithras or someone in his family could attempt a private prosecution of Aurora for whatever the German equivalent of vehicular assault or attempted murder or somesuch.

The burdon of proof in a criminal prosecution, (certainly in the UK), is Beyond Reasonable Doubt, so while "everyone knows" someone did it, if there exists a reasonable doubt of their guilt, then they are not guilty.

A civil prosecution, or a private prosecution, on the otherhand, the burdon of proof is based on Balance Of Probability. For these, you only have to show that it was probably was that person, 50.0001% guilty.

In this case, if it came to a private prosecution, given what would come out, who was involved, what the two were up to, it would not be beyond a good trial lawyer to comvince a jury in a civil case that it probably was deliberate and while a civil case can't impose a non-financial settlement, the level of that settlement could be very, very high.
 
As Mithras was jaywalking over a for him red traffic light, while Auora had green, I really, really doupt any charges would stick to her. The situation is very clearcut, he walked into rolling traffic. No fault of hers. Mithras chances to win that one for damage are nonexistant.
This is not america where one can win for civil damage when the coffee is hot or the cat doesn't survive being dried in the microwave. Common sense and law does get applied in europe*.




*mostly
 
As far as I can see, there is little chance for Mithras to sue in civil court. While he wasn't jaywalking, he didn't pay attention and stepped into the street. Additionally the sunlight mentioned in the scene made it very difficult for Mithras to be seen.
 
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“Your Honor, I was driving the speed limit and out of nowhere this man suddenly stepped out in front of me between two parked cars not paying attention to the traffic and I hit him before I could reasonably react”.
As Mithras was jaywalking over a for him red traffic light, while Auora had green, I really, really doupt any charges would stick to her. The situation is very clearcut, he walked into rolling traffic. No fault of hers. Mithras chances to win that one for damage are nonexistant.
This is not america where one can win for civil damage when the coffee is hot or the cat doesn't survive being dried in the microwave. Common sensedoes get applied in eurrope.

While the german traffic rules can be essentially be summarized to caution and mutual respect. In cases with pedestrians, drivers often (but not always) get a share of the blame.
BUT this case is quite simple for Aurora.
pedestrian --> red traffic light --> he had to wait!
driver --> green traffic light --> she could or better should/had to drive!
If she had a share of the blame depends on the speed of the car.
But depending on what i could read here, i think she won't get it.

Now on the question of was it assault/attempted murder or an accident
Well for one there would the need for proof beyond doubt.
Surveillance of the "victim" may give you a motive, but it is no proof.
The traffic light would be all the exonerating evidence you would need.
(One or two independent witnesses for the red/green traffic lights would be even better)

"Responsibility is on road users at all times to be able to react. Even if you could not reasonably react, you still hit the individual and thus the court finds in favour of damages to the plaintiff."

She hit him. In a civil suit, that is all that matters. Judge might choose to not award punitive damages, but they will award damages.

Hell, even if Mithras is only coming away from this with a broken arm, is found out, and is sent to prison. He could still sue Aurora for damages, and most likely win the case.

In german civil law, your chance for getting damages in cases like this, depends on some factors:
Those cases often land before (criminal) court where a judge has to convict her of negligence with consequential damage.
That requires an answer to following questions:
Is she to blame for the accident?
Is it her fault?
Could she reasonably have prevented the accident? If yes how?
In this case having a share of the blame is NOT ENOUGH! --> Again i don't think she will get convicted.

If she is concicted then the victim can sue for damages (with reasonable chances for success).

In this case, if it came to a private prosecution, given what would come out, who was involved, what the two were up to, it would not be beyond a good trial lawyer to comvince a jury in a civil case that it probably was deliberate and while a civil case can't impose a non-financial settlement, the level of that settlement could be very, very high.

In Germany there is no jury, just judges and layman judges. Even in civil cases. For the chances of success see above.
 
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From what several new stories from Germany over the years have said, any pedestrian that attempts to cross the road against the lights and gets hit is the one deemed at fault & prosecuted. Out of sheer curiosity, I have asked a few German tourists & University students here in NZ if this true. They have confirmed it. Thus Aurora is in the clear, as Mithras did exactly that and did so in front of witnesses.

Beside, Mithras is in the body & fender shop atm and will likely wake up cuffed to his hospital bed under guard.

Furthermore, although Mithras got a 'tickle' , neither he nor the Financier failed to pick up that they were being tailed by rank amateurs. Doesn't say much for how long they'll last when the pros get hold of their ID's. They've only lasted this long because no-one knew who the hell they were. Now they do.
 
After a fair amount of time, caught up on this. Very interesting TL @Peabody-Martini - amazing writing :D


"Responsibility is on road users at all times to be able to react. Even if you could not reasonably react, you still hit the individual and thus the court finds in favour of damages to the plaintiff."

She hit him. In a civil suit, that is all that matters. Judge might choose to not award punitive damages, but they will award damages.

Hell, even if Mithras is only coming away from this with a broken arm, is found out, and is sent to prison. He could still sue Aurora for damages, and most likely win the case.


From what several new stories from Germany over the years have said, any pedestrian that attempts to cross the road against the lights and gets hit is the one deemed at fault & prosecuted. Out of sheer curiosity, I have asked a few German tourists & University students here in NZ if this true. They have confirmed it. Thus Aurora is in the clear, as Mithras did exactly that and did so in front of witnesses.

Beside, Mithras is in the body & fender shop atm and will likely wake up cuffed to his hospital bed under guard.

Furthermore, although Mithras got a 'tickle' , neither he nor the Financier failed to pick up that they were being tailed by rank amateurs. Doesn't say much for how long they'll last when the pros get hold of their ID's. They've only lasted this long because no-one knew who the hell they were. Now they do.

What Salamander says. I’ve heard this too about German law - German family friend told us this as a warning when we visited him in Berlin.

Hell, by the sounds of it the situation is the other way around - Aurora could sue him for damaging her car XD
 
Ok, I give up.

Although I will argue that anyone saying "hurr durr, this only happens in America, not in glorious intelligent Europe", I live in Europe (Ireland), I can guarantee if it happened here, she'd be screwed to the wall for damages.
 
Ok, I give up.

Although I will argue that anyone saying "hurr durr, this only happens in America, not in glorious intelligent Europe", I live in Europe (Ireland), I can guarantee if it happened here, she'd be screwed to the wall for damages.

Well yeah but Ireland isn’t Germany. And from what I’ve heard, in Germany if you cross against the lights and get hit you haven’t a leg to stand on.
 
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