Affiliated States of Boreoamerica thread

[False Dmitri]

Tying up some loose ends:
I want to post this revision to the content list from a few pages back, taking into account some recent end-of-year discussion as well as a few older things that I had missed. I met my personal goal of having something on all 51 states by the end of the year. It really is the end of an era for me at least, the state-by-state histories have been the main thing I've been doing. (Edit: I realized that the new software finally supports tables! So here's a proper table to replace the image.)

Year	The ASB	State by state	Rest of the world
2011​	Original map (FD) Locator map (FD)	Upper Connecticut (FD) Christiana (FD) Huronia sign (LG)	Rupertsland general plan (FD)
2012​		Little Island States (FD) Upper Country (FD) Vermont (FD)
2013​
2014​	Political Parties (TB) Highways (FD) Postal codes (FD) The Grand Council of State (TB) Chief Ministers (TB) Political history, 1860-2009 (TB) Socialist Party (TB) Democratic Party (TB)	Dominion of New England (FD, TB) Illinois (FD) Maryland (FD) Huronia (FD) New Netherland (TB) Carolina (TB, FD) Canada (TB)
2015​	The English stocks (FD) Monarchies (FD) Francophone nationalism (TB) History and evolution of the ASB (Upv) QBAM (FD) Historical maps (FD) Political posters (TB)	East Florida (FD, TB) Labrador (TB, FD) Massachusetts (TB, FD) Ohio (FD) Bermuda (FD) Upper Louisiana (FD) Cherokee (FD) Lower Louisiana (TB) Pennsylvania (FD) Vineyards (FD) Bahamas (FD)	Lavaros, Mexico (Upv) California (Upv, FD) Map of the PIC (FD)
2016​	Confederal flag (FD)	L. Connecticut, R.I., Saybrook, Plymouth (FD) Acadia (FD) Upper Virginia (FD) St. Pierre & Miquelon (FD)	Baja California and San Diego (DrP) Antillean States (Pemp)
2017​	Map of the Central States (FD) Worlda (Tyche, FD, Upv) Tallest buildings (Upv) Population (Falk) Films (VS) Colleges and universities (Tso) Space flight (Tso) Currency (Tso) Television (Tso)	Newfoundland (FD) West Florida (FD) West Dominica (FD) New Hampshire (FD) Allegheny (FD) Seminol (FD) Assiniboia (FD) Iroquoia (FD)	West Africa (Upv) Cuzcatlan (VS) Yucatan (VS
2018​	Stereotype maps (FD) Long Island (VS) Chiefly Council (FD) Stock exchanges (VS) The Congressional Tradition (FD) State founders (FD) Archdioceses (FD) 8k-BAMs (Gian) Road trip and outdoor culture (Tso) Sports (Tso) Religious Council (FD) Citizenship (FD, Tso) Mormons (FD) Countryball comics (Undm)	Turks and Caicos (FD) Lower Virginia (FD)	Nuova Toscana (Frank) The PIC (FD) Italy (Neo, Frank) Bohemia (Gian) Suriname & New Torarica (Upv) New Holland (Frank) Alta California (DrP) Central Asia and China (Neo) South America (Upv, DrP, VS, FD) England/Ireland/Wales (FD) PIC dynastic history (FD) Germany (FD) Netherlands (Gian)
2019​	Comics (Tso) GDP (Tso) Populations and urban settlement (Tso, FD) Indian and confederal languages (FD) Holidays (Tso) State dishes (Tso) Proposed states (FD) Winter holiday myths (Grif)	Arques (FD) East Dominica (FD) Watauga (FD) Cuba (FD) Dakota (FD) Chicasaw (FD) Peachtree, Carolina (VS) New Netherland history (Grif) Choctaw (FD)	Mexico (VS, FD) Rupertsland (Tso, FD, flut) Japan general plan (GA1)

And in the process of producing the history of Choctaw, I had to again revise the Founders list, for both Choctaw and Lower Louisiana. Choctaw gets its traditional founder back; relying on an obscure historical chief with only tenuous connections to the tribe didn't really make sense once I looked into it. And for Lower Louisiana, the younger Le Moyne brother is honored as the father of the state in OTL, and there's no reason to demote him in favor of the older brother when their stories are basically the same in TTL. Rather than re-post the giant list, here are the updates for just those two states. I forgot the column headers, so they are: State, Founder Figure, Years, Description, Portrait, and Other Figures.

 

[Oliveia]

Impressive collection! Is there a way to show them small but side by side, with names?

I should say that I posted a flag of Russian California, as an inset on the map. So it's very tiny, but I'd prefer to keep something like it rather than something based more directly on the Russian flag. Many former colonies would want to choose a symbol that's not simply colonial. My thinking was that Russian California, having "Russia" right there in the name, would want to choose a more independent-looking flag as a kind of balance. The same might go for the combined Russia-Spain flag, though I'm not sure which state it's for.
View attachment 513868

I'd also like to move away from the USA-type design that's typified in the OTL San Francisco flag: put all kinds of symbols onto it, then slap the name onto the flag since the assemblage is so confusing. How about something that just uses a phoenix? The earthquakes and fires that made the city have to "rise from the ashes" several times would surely be present in TTL as well - along with a very destructive war in the 1860s. So a phoenix makes sense as a symbol. The same might go for the New Albion flag: there must be something else that could go in the canton than just the name. Maybe something to represent Francis Drake? He used a red wyvern on white as one of his coats of arms, that could look good with the cross.

Oh, I knew I remembered Russian California having a flag, but didn't know where it was. I have copies of all the flags so far, but I will show you the New Albion flag because some stuff were cut off. Admittedly, the red wyvern seems a lot cooler, though:


I'll definitely get around to revising some flags (ones for Supremacia and San Fran. specifically). Also, I noticed some states don't have descriptions yet -- like the Kingdom of the Salt Lake.

 

[Gian]

The map indicates New Rochelle is still a thing, so Huguenots are definitely in the mix as well.

I should actually add that I had envisioned in 2017-18 that the Huguenots fled to the Netherlands and basically mixed with the inhabitants in Wallonia, creating a separate Walloon identity based around the Reformed faith, their Oil dialects (be it Walloon or Picard/Ch'ti), and their loyalty to the Dutch Republic. Basically, a group completely separate from the French.

Basically, some Huguenots going further to NN is a near-certainty.

 

[Kosta]

I should actually add that I had envisioned in 2017-18 that the Huguenots fled to the Netherlands and basically mixed with the inhabitants in Wallonia, creating a separate Walloon identity based around the Reformed faith, their Oil dialects (be it Walloon or Picard/Ch'ti), and their loyalty to the Dutch Republic. Basically, a group completely separate from the French.

Basically, some Huguenots going further to NN is a near-certainty.

What about Puritans moving to the Netherlands and staying for good? I vaguely sketched something out for Ill Bethisad, which @False Dmitri and I were (are?) both part of, and it seemed like if the stadtholder had just given the refugees farmland instead of dumping them off in Leiden, I think a lot more would have assimilated instead of complaining how the Netherlands' Calvinism is too lax and it's nothing like the England they left behind.

It would be kind of cool to have completely Hollandified descendants of the Puritans colonizing the New Netherland colony with their countrymen while the descendants of those Puritans who didn't want any part of Leiden or Amsterdam live just across the border in Plymouth Colony.

 

[Griffin04]

Very cool ideas, @Gian and @Kosta!

 

[False Dmitri]

Oh, I knew I remembered Russian California having a flag, but didn't know where it was. I have copies of all the flags so far, but I will show you the New Albion flag because some stuff were cut off. Admittedly, the red wyvern seems a lot cooler, though:

But I'm pretty sure that there are no other Californian states with previously posted flags. No flag yet for the Union as a whole, either.

I'll definitely get around to revising some flags (ones for Supremacia and San Fran. specifically). Also, I noticed some states don't have descriptions yet -- like the Kingdom of the Salt Lake.

Both the states of Pietas and Supremacia are in need of revision, I think, starting with their rather less-than-plausible names. But yes, there are other states that we know little to nothing about, and as more gets discovered we may find that some borders need adjusting, something that's happened several times in the development of the ASB itself. Upvoteanthology has stopped participating on the board, pretty much officially, so she's not here to fill us in on those unexplained names, unfortunately. One of the only things I'm absolutely sure about is that the Salt Lake is definitely not a stand-in for the Holy Mormon Kingdom of Mormon Deseret and Mormonia. That's one cliche we're avoiding in this timeline. Mormonism exists in TTL as a minority religion most numerous in the valley of the Missouri.

 

[NorCalifornio]

Though I should point out that Louisiana did not pass through any period of Spanish control in TTL; did the Manilamen incident have anything to do with that?

Good question. Now that I think of it, the most obvious way of getting from a Spanish galleon to the Louisiana bayou would be to desert while the ship is docked in New Orleans. The earliest dates I've seen suggested for the establishment of their villages is 1763, which fits that conclusion. However, the more I look into it, the more there seems to be a lot of uncertainty regarding how the Manilamen got there. One source even suggested that they actually jumped ship in Acapulco and traveled by land either to Veracruz or all the way to Louisiana. That seems unlikely though, and it was an uncited passing mention in a geology paper anyway.

Where can I learn more about them?

The Wikipedia page for Saint Malo, Louisiana has some good sources (and more than a few subpar ones).

 

[Oliveia]

But I'm pretty sure that there are no other Californian states with previously posted flags. No flag yet for the Union as a whole, either.

Alright, that's good. For the San Francisco flag (which we're probably not using right now), I guess I proposed the 1836 Lone Star Flag (which was flown by pro-independence Californios), which I feel might still be used as a rallying cry of a flag due to its non-US background. If that doesn't work, I won't be surprised.

Both the states of Pietas and Supremacia are in need of revision, I think, starting with their rather less-than-plausible names. But yes, there are other states that we know little to nothing about, and as more gets discovered we may find that some borders need adjusting, something that's happened several times in the development of the ASB itself. Upvoteanthology has stopped participating on the board, pretty much officially, so she's not here to fill us in on those unexplained names, unfortunately. One of the only things I'm absolutely sure about is that the Salt Lake is definitely not a stand-in for the Holy Mormon Kingdom of Mormon Deseret and Mormonia. That's one cliche we're avoiding in this timeline. Mormonism exists in TTL as a minority religion most numerous in the valley of the Missouri.

I assumed the Salt Lake Kingdom wasn't Mormon (though I also assumed Mormons didn't exist). Perhaps it's a weird eccentric kingdom, a la the Kingdom of Patagonia or the State of Muskogee?

 

[Gian]

By the way, I managed to do this while listening to this: (at .75 speed)

...as well as this WIP (this is actually going to be using my own slate of designs for each of the states, which I'll also upload on DeviantArt and eventually Artri.se):

BTW, I'll upload both of these as SVG files when I'm done (either here or through some third-party I don't know about)

 

[Philip]

BTW, I'll upload both of these as SVG files when I'm done (either here or through some third-party I don't know about)

Looking forward to it. I'm a big fan of flag-maps.

 

[Gian]

Also @False Dmitri, would you mind if I have the SVG files for both the Chickasaw and Choctaw flags?

 

[Gian]

More flags for the flag map, while I redesign a few more:

 

[Tsochar]

I'm (slowly) working on a bit for immigration in the ASB, and I have some ideas, but I need to know if they make sense within the context of what's been established.

Basically, my concept is that the ASB as a confederation controls immigration policy for the country, and the ASB alone decides who may become a naturalized citizen and how, but individual states can also have their own limited immigration policies.

For example, while immigrants can always move freely from state to state, someone with the wrong type of visa or permanent resident classification might not be able to buy a house or have a job and so on. Suppose there's a political crisis in Distantistan and the ASB wants to help out by settling refugees. However, a couple of states are very NIMBY about it and pass state laws stating that people from Distantistan who come on an asylum visa cannot settle there. While they are not physically stopped from entering or forced to leave those particular states, it's difficult enough to live there that they are discouraged from moving in. This would have a historical background where certain groups of people were at times physically forced to leave by law enforcement, and sometimes worse. In any case, laws targeting racial and religious groups would be a no-no in current times, and ASB immigration policy is assumed to apply unless specifically contradicted.
On the other side of the coin, some states would be allowed to loosen immigration restrictions for themselves only. Suppose Christiana wants people from PIC states to have an easier time obtaining permanent residence status, that status can be granted at the state level without Confederal approval, but the immigrants in question wouldn't be able to move outside Christiana. I have a few fun ideas that involve this.

This system would, of course, require that all immigrants without citizenship to have both confederal and state paperwork, and probably end up in a complicated clusterfuck of laws, ordinances, and regulations, eventually leading most states to throw up their hands and simply default to ASB laws. Ultimately, these special cases of extraordinary exclusion or inclusion would be fairly rare and often controversial.

 

[Gian]

More flags done:

 

[jennysnooper87]

More flags done:

The Pays-de-en-Haut flag looks a little different.

 

[Gian]

The Pays-de-en-Haut flag looks a little different.

That's because I'm using my own slate of state flags, some of which may look different to @False Dmitri's designs. I'm actually going to explain all of my choices when I post all the flags (as well as my own design on the ASB flag, which still has the turtle and green on it) on DeviantArt.

 

[jennysnooper87]

That's because I'm using my own slate of state flags, some of which may look different to @False Dmitri's designs. I'm actually going to explain all of my choices when I post all the flags (as well as my own design on the ASB flag, which still has the turtle and green on it) on DeviantArt.

I like it, especially with the pointed star in the middle.

 

[False Dmitri]

That's because I'm using my own slate of state flags, some of which may look different to @False Dmitri's designs. I'm actually going to explain all of my choices when I post all the flags (as well as my own design on the ASB flag, which still has the turtle and green on it) on DeviantArt.

Well that makes me feel a little better about posting this, I've been making it gradually for a long while now using your 8k-BAM. It's kind of a perfect projection for this kind of map.

It's cool that you're tweaking the flags I made. Please don't be offended if I keep using mine, though. Many of your designs are probably better looking, but for a lot of the state flags I want them to look "period" as well. For example I know Rhode Island's is vexillologically imperfect, but I made it to look 18th century and want it to stay that way. But there are definitely other things that could improve. That turtle graphic isn't great - I traced it from a banner at a protest by Native people. I've been sort of keeping my eye open for a way to make it better.

 

[False Dmitri]

Also @False Dmitri, would you mind if I have the SVG files for both the Chickasaw and Choctaw flags?

I don't have SVG files. Learning Inkscape has been on my to-do list for years but I never did.

 

[Gian]

Well that makes me feel a little better about posting this, I've been making it gradually for a long while now using your 8k-BAM. It's kind of a perfect projection for this kind of map.

View attachment 515359

It's cool that you're tweaking the flags I made. Please don't be offended if I keep using mine, though. Many of your designs are probably better looking, but for a lot of the state flags I want them to look "period" as well. For example I know Rhode Island's is vexillologically imperfect, but I made it to look 18th century and want it to stay that way. But there are definitely other things that could improve. That turtle graphic isn't great - I traced it from a banner at a protest by Native people. I've been sort of keeping my eye open for a way to make it better.

Eh.. I don't mind if you keep using your slate of flags while I use mine.