Request Maps/Flags/Coats of Arms/Heraldry here, II
- Thread starter Pragmatic Progressive
- Start date
I was recently reading through the back-catalogue of the late James A. Michener and stumbled onto a little bit of Alternate History from one of his books - SPACE: A NOVEL - to whit, the completely fictional State of Fremont, USA (apparently situated in what would be the border country between Kansas & Nebraska in our timeline).
As tends to happen when I stumble onto a Fictional or might-have-been State, one started to wonder what the flag of this particular subdivision of the USA might look like; I stumbled onto the so-called 'Pathfinder flag' associated with the state's namesake (John C. Frémont) and would therefore like to request that the canton design from that ensign be employed as the base from which to build a proper State flag, Please and Thank You for your consideration.
Note: Apparently you have to be quite careful about what colour to make the Eagle & Stars, as mentioned on the website at the other end of this link.
The same design, at a slightly larger magnification
My suspicion is that, as with the State Flag of Nebraska and the State Flag of Kansas, the State name and its incorporation would appear on the flag - but I have yet to read the novel and am not sure if the Date of Accession is given there. Hopefully this will not be a problem.
Thank You very much once again!
As tends to happen when I stumble onto a Fictional or might-have-been State, one started to wonder what the flag of this particular subdivision of the USA might look like; I stumbled onto the so-called 'Pathfinder flag' associated with the state's namesake (John C. Frémont) and would therefore like to request that the canton design from that ensign be employed as the base from which to build a proper State flag, Please and Thank You for your consideration.
Note: Apparently you have to be quite careful about what colour to make the Eagle & Stars, as mentioned on the website at the other end of this link.
The same design, at a slightly larger magnification
My suspicion is that, as with the State Flag of Nebraska and the State Flag of Kansas, the State name and its incorporation would appear on the flag - but I have yet to read the novel and am not sure if the Date of Accession is given there. Hopefully this will not be a problem.
Thank You very much once again!
Starforce
Banned
I mean, why would it? Just seeing what other people have in mind. If it would remain the same, why would I have asked?
p.s. I would also be very grateful if more expert vexillologists than myself would help me out by offering some advice and suggestions regarding an ongoing project; I've been trying to work out flags for the various territories/states/provinces etc mentioned by Mr Robert Sobel in FOR WANT OF A NAIL and have decided to start by working out flags for the Norther & Southern Confederation of the Confederation of North America (this redundancy of names does seem a trifle confusing, but we work with what the author gives us - as is right and proper).
A map of the Provinces, States & Territories in question - as well as a Wiki for those interested in further research.
Now I've worked out a banner for the Northern Confederation - my mental image was, roughly speaking, a variation on the New England flag (complete w. pine tree in canton) with a heraldic shield in the field bearing the royal arms of Great Britain turning it into a sort of red ensign, a little like the old flag of Canada (though I'm not sure if the Royal Arms should be those of King George III - under whom the Confederation was formed - or those post-dating the separation of Hanover & the United Kingdom following Queen Victoria's coronation).
I am, however, a bit stumped by the Southern Confederation - my instinct was to go with another Red Ensign (albeit this one with a more proper Union Jack in the canton) with a heraldic shield in the field, but could not for the life of me work out what device or devices that shield should bear; may I please ask if you have any advice on that score, dear reader?
A map of the Provinces, States & Territories in question - as well as a Wiki for those interested in further research.
Now I've worked out a banner for the Northern Confederation - my mental image was, roughly speaking, a variation on the New England flag (complete w. pine tree in canton) with a heraldic shield in the field bearing the royal arms of Great Britain turning it into a sort of red ensign, a little like the old flag of Canada (though I'm not sure if the Royal Arms should be those of King George III - under whom the Confederation was formed - or those post-dating the separation of Hanover & the United Kingdom following Queen Victoria's coronation).
I am, however, a bit stumped by the Southern Confederation - my instinct was to go with another Red Ensign (albeit this one with a more proper Union Jack in the canton) with a heraldic shield in the field, but could not for the life of me work out what device or devices that shield should bear; may I please ask if you have any advice on that score, dear reader?
Because the real world doesn't operate under HOI4 logic? Generally speaking, countries only adopt new flags when they need too -- it's generally expensive to replace every flag at every facility required by law to have flags (every school, military base, etc.)
Starforce
Banned
In my rule the multiverse is vast enough so every possibility is possible, within reason. So, I don't really pay attention to that. Just a flag concept or idea, too. It's not like we have to take realism everywhere and into every little detail so I can see what a flag might look like.
There are generally reasons why flags change and a new administration tends not to be one.
Rebellions, coups, restorations, and constitutional changes are the big ones. Which causes your America?
@Tiro
That idea for the Northern Confederation doesn't quite work as it gives the impression of being a NE dominion over Britain. Ensigns have the mother country in the canton with local national symbols outside (see the old Canadian Red Ensign and the current Australian and New Zealand ones). So the plain NE flag would work or perhaps a Red Ensign bearing a pine tree if instead of the Northern Confederation Arms.
Well my understanding is that the CNA was formed after an unsuccessful American War of Independence, so my theory was that the Northern & Southern Confederations might well make little symbolic points like this a sort "Well we've patched things up but don't take us for granted" gesture directed at Great Britain - but your point is well taken and I do appreciate your taking time to share this thought with me.
So may I please ask if you think that a 'Red Ensign' with a white shield bearing a cross of St George in red upon the field (and the classic 'Sentinel Pine' in the upper left quarter of that shield) might be more practicable? (I know this is more of a 'New England' look, but have difficulty thinking of another pan-Northeastern symbol of roughly the right date - 1780s - that was not associated with the American Revolution).
So may I please ask if you think that a 'Red Ensign' with a white shield bearing a cross of St George in red upon the field (and the classic 'Sentinel Pine' in the upper left quarter of that shield) might be more practicable? (I know this is more of a 'New England' look, but have difficulty thinking of another pan-Northeastern symbol of roughly the right date - 1780s - that was not associated with the American Revolution).
Starforce
Banned
Well, in this situation let us say that the US is overthrown by a fascist / nationalist / isolationist sort of combination of ideology during the great depression. This ideology is not helped by Germany or the other fascists. This government bans all communist activities and begins improving the economy. They still embargo Japan, and still join the allies. However, they have a rather anti-war stance after the war.
Indeed. They might even go as far to have the sentinel pine alone.
Alternatively, how about a green maple leaf? Fits the region and has no other connotations for the time since I think it arose after loyalist settlement in the 2 Canadas (someone correct me if needed!)
I'm not sure the logic of them joining the Allies holds considering.
That aside what I see is them placing the Great Seal on field of the 13 stripes.
Alternatively, something like this:
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I was thinking more of in the deep south of the USA but that works too.
something with a peace sign comes to mind. I guess though it depends on whether they are trying to represent the type of political system / aspiration they have in the same way that some one party countries display the symbol of the dominant regime (think communist red star). One problem, in my mind, is that the only 2 things represented on the OTL flag are the founding members of the country (13 stripes) and the current member (50 stars) so that it could be appropriate to pretty much any regime unless they wanted to downplay one of these aspects.
Because sometime people ask people on this thread as to how realistic something is ?
If I might offer a 'No-prize' suggestion to smooth over this world building issue, this could be the Party flag rather than a new National flag.
does it echoes in any was the CSA ? if so, maybe something heraldic that either recalls the Confederate battle flag or the first CSA National flag.