So, I have all of the background stuff for the war of German unification ready, I just need to finish one more image.

Before I move on to the actual war, though, I want to figure out the situation in all of eastern Europe prior to the war (so I can better predict the events). Mainly, I want to figure out the Balkans, as we have yet to touch the region and it may end up being essential to Russian operations against Austria.

Serbia:
So, first of all, if TTL the Napoleonic Wars go on for longer and Austria is seen as a collaborative state and is thus attacked, Serbian revolutionaries would flee to Russia rather than Austria as the First Serbian Uprising ended as OTL's Napoleonic wars were stagnating (during Napoelon's first exile). This means that they would have to pass through more Ottoman land before escaping, making the death rate higher. This is particularly important because of one man. The leader of the first Serbian uprising and progenitor of Serbia's OTL royal family: Karađorđe Petrović.
IOTL he escaped to Austria, was arrested at the border, but the Austrians refused to hand him over to the Turks, he was sent to Russia, lived in Bessarabia for a while. The second Serbian revolt, led by a rival nobleman, Miloš Obrenović, was a resounding success. Karađorđe was not permitted by the Russians to participate, so he secretly returned after the revolt to instigate a pan-Balkan revolution against the Ottomans, organized by a Greek nationalist group. He was betrayed by a close friend who let him stay on his land but then had him killed on Obrenović's orders and his head was sent to Constantinople as a gift for the Sultan.
TTL Austria avoids the whole extradition fiasco with the Ottomans, Karađorđe either dies on the way to Russia, meaning his eldest son Aleksandar (future prince of Serbia) and his other children would likely be captured and possibly killed by the Ottomans, or he gets to Russia. With the prolonged Napoleonic wars still going, Karađorđe might settle deeper in Russia, as the border would not be a safe home for his family. He may move to St. Petersburg. From there, he would definitely want to return to Serbia, but the sneaking back to Serbia thing would be a lot harder, so he would likely stay in Russia until around 1840 when his family was allowed to return IOTL. His sons would probably still serve in the Russian army.
So either Karađorđe dies and later dynastic conflict does not affect Serbia or he lives longer. Either way, Russo-Serbian relations are even better TTL and the Austrians would not have nearly as much support as they did in early OTL Serbia, as they would not get the reputation boost from refusing to hand over Serbian leaders to Turkey. This would be a problem for the Austrians when they go to war with Russia, so they might try to occupy strategically important locations at the start of the war. They might occupy the Ottoman exclave of Belgrade to strengthen their defense against a Russian or Russian-supported attack through Serbia, though they would need the Ottomans permission for this or risk war. An excuse might be made, like preventing a Russian attack, but the Ottomans wouldn't want to start a war with Russia either, so....

Romania:
Another area of interest here is Romania. The region wouldn't change much until the Spring of Nations. They would have their own revolutions IOTL around the same time as the rest of Europe. The goals would be independence for Moldavia, Transylvania and Wallachia. Russia's response to the TTL equivalent of these could determine their geopolitical position at the start of the war with Austria. From the post Napoleonic map, I see that the Ottomans have given autonomy to the Romanian states. Is the assumption here that they already revolted or were they already autonomous OTL and I'm just forgetting about it?
Either way, the Russians might try to get into Austria through Romania or fund revolutionaries in Transylvania.

I doubt Greece will have any role in this war even if the Russians and Austrians do get involved in the Balkans.

With all these foreign armies passing through their land, the Ottomans might get mad or might be too afraid to stop them. Or maybe none of my speculation makes sense and I'm just rambling again.

To sum it up (if you don't want to read all of that):

Sorry for rambling on. I just felt that I need to know roughly what would have changed in each part of Europe before getting to work on a war between 4 of its largest powers.

So:
How much stuff would happen in the Balkans? What has happened there so far, and how might it affect the situation during this war? This war doesn't focus on the region, but it could be an important battleground between the Russians and the Austrians. Otherwise, their rivalry, boosted by the war, might urge them both to try and eat up as much land in the weak Ottoman empire as they could. I'm definitely seeing a second Russo Turkish war breaking out after the Russo-German alliance wins this war, and presumably the Russians take a break from fighting, because constant war never did anyone any good but that doesn't effect my current work.
 
@Višeslav I just wanted to say that I love the work that you've done so far on German Unification and the Balkans. Since we're talking about the springtime of nations period, I thought that I'd compile a list of possible hotspots for revolutionary activity ITTL:
Europe
-Germany (pro-Russian)
-Poland (pro-Austrian)
-Serbia, Wallachia and Transylvania (pro-Russian)
Moldavia (pro-Austrian)
-Greece (probably pro-Russian)
Ireland (idk who would support the Irish at this time besides France)
North America
-New England, due to tensions over slavery
-Quebec
-Mexico (including filibusters)
Asia
Possibly a larger sepoy mutiny?
 
@Višeslav I just wanted to say that I love the work that you've done so far on German Unification and the Balkans.

Thank you. I'm glad I'm not just filling the thread with trash.

@Višeslav Since we're talking about the springtime of nations period, I thought that I'd compile a list of possible hotspots for revolutionary activity ITTL:
Europe
-Germany (pro-Russian)
-Poland (pro-Austrian)
-Serbia, Wallachia and Transylvania (pro-Russian)
Moldavia (pro-Austrian)
-Greece (probably pro-Russian)
Ireland (idk who would support the Irish at this time besides France)
North America
-New England, due to tensions over slavery
-Quebec
-Mexico (including filibusters)
Asia
Possibly a larger sepoy mutiny?

Thanks for the list. It looks great. It's definitely a good idea to think about revolutions outside of Europe at the time, though I'll leave that to the other people involved (you if you want). I'd say that Mexico is the biggest hotbed for revolutions and war in the Americas in this general period, especially after losing the war with the US, but I'm no expert. As for the Sepoys, I would wait for someone (could be you if you have the time, desire, and the knowledge) to flesh out India a bit more before seeing how that all plays out, as the British would be a little slower than OTL in their conquest (just a bit, since it is only one kingdom slowing them down, and I'd imagine they'd move onto the rest of India and try again to take Mysore every once in a while) which could substantially change Indian and Burmese history.

Also, just to be clear, by Moldavia you seem to mean Moldova/Bessarabia, as in, the modern country that was at the time recently incorporated into Russia. Am I correct? What I meant by Moldavia in my post is Western Moldavia, the region of Romania which is a part of the Ottoman Empire at the time.


Also, speaking of Mysore, I really like its prewar borders. @Hindustani Person how likely would you say it is that these stay around? My guess is not very but not impossible, since under some of Tippu Sultan's less competent successors, I can see some land getting chipped away by the British, but, as I've learned, Mysore is no pushover.
 
yO4s4ud.jpg

More Germany.

Need to add the second page in the pair, but that one will focus on the start of the war.
 
So, uh, I got distracted from my work on Germany and now we have 2 maps of the Netherlands. I'll try to get back to work on Germany now though I can't guarantee anything. I'm easily distracted.

PKYVod2.jpg


This one is without the Flevoland Polders (so how it would look at the time that we're at right now)

vqEIIPC.jpg


This one is with the OTL maximum planned land reclamation (so more than actually happened IOTL because extra land reclamation is cool), that is, how this Benelux state could look if it survives until the modern day.
 
I got back to work. Here's more on Germany. I'm going to need some feedback on the information here, how to make it more realistic and logical and stuff, before I threadmark it.

Zh14Rhz.jpg




__________________________________________________________________________________​



Also, this textbook has a cover now. Well, it has for a while, I just haven't posted it until now. So yeah. Here it is. What do you all think?

8n3LS8B.jpg
 
I got back to work. Here's more on Germany. I'm going to need some feedback on the information here, how to make it more realistic and logical and stuff, before I threadmark it.

Beyond minor spelling errors, nothing is too wrong. Maybe a quick box on the side about how the German Confederation works? Like, it feels like Austria shouldn't be able to occupy a Prussian city.[/QUOTE]
 
Beyond minor spelling errors, nothing is too wrong. Maybe a quick box on the side about how the German Confederation works? Like, it feels like Austria shouldn't be able to occupy a Prussian city.

You're right, I ought to reword it.
It was the reason Prussia went to war. I guess occupy was a strong word, what I meant was a police presence. What I had in mind is that Austria has "willingly" received permission for its police and army to move through some of the smaller German states, like Hessen, to combat liberals, or, in simpler terms, destroy libtards (as well as pro-Prussian nationalist groups). With the protests in Dusseldorf blatantly spitting on their anti liberal and anti pan-germanist laws, the Austrian police force in Hessen entered the Prussian Rhineland (it would probably be without consulting with the government), and went to the city whose local government might accept help in putting down the riot (albeit without the Prussian government's permission which might be a stretch). Either way, the city isn't entirely walled off or anything, so the Austrian police get in and try to disperse the rally, which ends in civilian and police deaths and a riot and inspires both further rioting and a Prussian declaration of war.

The confederation is very loose, much like OTL, probably has something like OTL's Zollverein (a customs union), fights together against external threats, and has a federal president (one of the monarchs) who does practically nothing.

Is that ok or is it still unrealistic regardless of any clarification?
 
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Bits of History to clear up:


Algeria:


So, there's this one small thing that could be important for the TL that we missed. Has France colonized or attempted to colonize Algeria? IOTL they did this in 1830 under the somewhat weak excuse of "their ruler hit our ambassador with a fly swatter", but would the be willing and able to do so ITTL considering the different situation around the Napoleonic wars?

This could be relevant because a military success would embolden France and also this would obviously have a huge effect on the trajectory of African colonization considering that it was the first time a European power other than Britain or Portugal had set up a significantly sized colony in Africa.

Gabon:

Also, the French began to colonize Gabon with the establishment of a port where Libreville is today in 1843, I don't see why this wouldn't happen, with the French trying to regain some power/significance after their devastating losses in the Napoleonic wars. The city sprung up when the French, who were at the time helping the British prevent the export of Slaves, freed a ship full of Slaves headed for Brazil, and settled them around what was at the time effectively a naval base, the freed slaves named the town Libreville. Would you say that this slave settlement is likely to happen ITTL? By which I mean, would the French be working with the British on this? If not, it has no huge effect on the timeline. Maybe a whiter city there called something different, live Louisville (because who wouldn't name it after their King) or it might be named after an explorer or saint. So this question is less important and just affects small details.

South Africa:

I assume British activity in South Africa is more or less the same as IOTL up till this point (1850), but there is the possibility of the colonization of Plata and Indonesia (if it wasn't returned post Napoleon, as I seem to remember that we agreed at some point that it was seized in the interlude in the Napoleonic wars when the Netherlands seemed like they'd be part of France for a very long time) as well as the continuing wars against Mysore drawing away resources from South Africa.


Another thing:

Also, to repeat my question: does my revision of what goes down in Germany (found in the previous post) make sense or does the whole incident need to be reworked?
 
South Africa:

I assume British activity in South Africa is more or less the same as IOTL up till this point (1850), but there is the possibility of the colonization of Plata and Indonesia (if it wasn't returned post Napoleon, as I seem to remember that we agreed at some point that it was seized in the interlude in the Napoleonic wars when the Netherlands seemed like they'd be part of France for a very long time) as well as the continuing wars against Mysore drawing away resources from South Africa.

I think it'd be interesting (though likely unrealistic) if one of the former Dutch colonies to become a British protectorate, a la the United States of the Ionian Islands.
 
Which colonies do you have in mind?

[edit: and do you have a semi reasonable way to explain it?]
No clue on either front, to be honest. Best I could come up with would be a pretty strongly pro-Dutch or anti-British sentiment making direct ownership a hassle for the Brits.
 
No clue on either front, to be honest. Best I could come up with would be a pretty strongly pro-Dutch or anti-British sentiment making direct ownership a hassle for the Brits.

It's certainly an interesting idea, but, unless others object, I'd say we should stick to realism in that field for now.
 
In case anybody wants to do something but doesn't know what, I was thinking, there are 2 maps we could use.

Firstly, a world map for what we have so far (after the Napoleonic wars and before German unification, so around 1830 should be ok). I find that I like to get a bit of context as to what's going on at a given point in a TL. It would be especially nice since so far, we have given very little information on what is happening in the world. I believe @mikroraptor tried to do something like this earlier.

Secondly, when you get the chance @Entrerriano or @Onerom (I know you both have things to do, so no rush, just an idea of what you can do), it would be nice to get an animated map of South America showing the territorial changes from the beginning of the wars of independence to 1830, kind of like the one in Onerom's timeline Nobody Expects: The Spanish Revolution. I am aware that Entrerriano is busy with Argentine lore and I can't even remember if Onerom is still working on this TL or has decided to focus on his own stuff, so with that in mind, this is definitely not a high priority thing, and is just something I thought would be cool to have.

The maps below show what's going on in some parts of the world, particularly South America.

I'm ok with the history of northern South America shown in these two posts if everyone else is:

South America history Proposal I:
View attachment 485526
1. before 1808.

2.- 1808

3.- 1809

4.- 1810

5.- 1811

6.- 1812

7.- Second Line: 1815

8.- 1817

9.- 1822

10.- 1823

View attachment 486490

Here's a map proposal for the state of South America around 1830.

Featuring:

- Many claims from all the sides.
- The Caribbean under British control (subject to change).
- A Gran Colombia Civil War that has just ended, leaving the former federation split in three with the British still ocupying Coro in the newborn Venezuela.


This is the situation in the Southern Cone in 1830.

By the way, my Rio de La Plata proposal for aroun 1830:
unknown.png

Featuring:
-British Plate Colony.
-Federation of Peru (Maybe collapsing, maybe not).
-Empire of Brazil.
-Republic of Chile.
-Republic of Salta (Influenced by Peru a lot).
-Paraguay, in a tight alliance with Britain, hoping that Brazil doesn't invade or that Corrientes and Misiones don't start an uprising.
-United Provinces of Cordoba, formed during the collapse of Spain in South America as the criollos demanded a fair role in the government. Currently governed by a mixed government of Criollos and Peninsulares.
-Republic of Tucuman, would like to join Cordoba if it wasn't for the low autonomy their provinces have in respect to Cordoba proper.

I didn't include any claims in foreign lands to not clutter the map, but be aware that this is full of border disputes.

This Would be the situation in Europe:


This is the closest we have to a map of North America:

Of course, it would need quite a few changes as I believe this was supposed to be a modern day map before we agreed on California being a thing.

  • Belize and the Moskito Coast remain British for now.
  • Alaska should be Russian.
  • The US should not be fully incorporating all of those states, nor should it all be settled. There will be many more territories around in the west and north, some might contain multiple states on this map.


As for the rest of the world:

East Asia has yet to be significantly changed, South Asia should be visibly different though. So:

  • Mysore is still around, though I'm not sure how long it can hold out against the British.
    • The British may have a bit less land in India, but it shouldn't be a huge difference.
  • The British may (or may not) have kept Dutch Indonesia after the Napoleonic wars. If they did, the British have likely expanded a bit since then, maybe placed a few more local kingdoms under their protection.
  • Otherwise, It should be more or less like OTL

If you need it, there is a very nice and potentially useful map of the Russian Empire's expansion with dates (look on the map, not on the legend)

Africa is more or less the same as IOTL, if you find any plausible changes you think should/need to happen, feel free to incorporate them, but of course, run it by the rest of the people first.

Also, an updated version of Onerom's river plate colony Wikipedia article would be nice, but is, again, not something that needs to be done soon. Basically, just add the Flag and Coat of arms, under the flag's name, just put Blue Ensign for now, and get rid of or black out the "Patagonia Incorporated" bit, as we're still not sure whether that is going to happen.


If you think that this is a stupid idea or a waste of time, feel free to tell me. Have a reason though.
 
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In case anybody wants to do something but doesn't know what, I was thinking, there are 2 maps we could use.

Firstly, a world map for what we have so far (after the Napoleonic wars and before German unification, so around 1830 should be ok). I find that I like to get a bit of context as to what's going on at a given point in a TL. It would be especially nice since so far, we have given very little information on what is happening in the world. I believe @mikroraptor tried to do something like this earlier.

Secondly, when you get the chance @Entrerriano or @Onerom (I know you both have things to do, so no rush, just an idea of what you can do), it would be nice to get an animated map of South America showing the territorial changes from the beginning of the wars of independence to 1830, kind of like the one in Onerom's timeline Nobody Expects: The Spanish Revolution. I am aware that Entrerriano is busy with Argentine lore and I can't even remember if Onerom is still working on this TL or has decided to focus on his own stuff, so with that in mind, this is definitely not a high priority thing, and is just something I thought would be cool to have.

The maps below show what's going on in some parts of the world, particularly South America.

I'm ok with the history of northern South America shown in these two posts if everyone else is:






This is the situation in the Southern Cone in 1830.



This Would be the situation in Europe:



This is the closest we have to a map of North America:

Of course, it would need quite a few changes as I believe this was supposed to be a modern day map before we agreed on California being a thing.

  • Belize and the Moskito Coast remain British for now.
  • Alaska should be Russian.
  • The US should not be fully incorporating all of those states, nor should it all be settled. There will be many more territories around in the west and north, some might contain multiple states on this map.



As for the rest of the world:

East Asia has yet to be significantly changed, South Asia should be visibly different though. So:

  • Mysore is still around, though I'm not sure how long it can hold out against the British.
    • The British may have a bit less land in India, but it shouldn't be a huge difference.
  • The British may (or may not) have kept Dutch Indonesia after the Napoleonic wars. If they did, the British have likely expanded a bit since then, maybe placed a few more local kingdoms under their protection.
  • Otherwise, It should be more or less like OTL

If you need it, there is a very nice and potentially useful map of the Russian Empire's expansion with dates (look on the map, not on the legend)

Africa is more or less the same as IOTL, if you find any plausible changes you think should/need to happen, feel free to incorporate them, but of course, run it by the rest of the people first.

Also, an updated version of Onerom's river plate colony Wikipedia article would be nice, but is, again, not something that needs to be done soon. Basically, just add the Flag and Coat of arms, under the flag's name, just put Blue Ensign for now, and get rid of or black out the "Patagonia Incorporated" bit, as we're still not sure whether that is going to happen.


If you think that this is a stupid idea or a waste of time, feel free to tell me. Have a reason though.
I would be happy to try and make another version of the world map, but I am going to be fairly busy until the new year.
 
I would be happy to try and make another version of the world map, but I am going to be fairly busy until the new year.

If you want to do it, do it when you can, there's no pressure to be too quick.

The base map you used in your last map was a good size, but if you want a different one, I might be able to provide it.
 
I mean, I'll at least get North America in 1830 done. Keeping in mind that the United Kingdom of Central America won't quite be a thing yet.
 
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