Marriages for Louis Philippe's Children if No Revolution of 1830?

[Kellan Sullivan]

Let's assume that by some miracle the mainline of Bourbons hangs onto the throne in 1830 and Louis Philippe never becomes king.

Where would his children marry? There was mention of Louise d'Artois for the duc de Chartres, but I personally see it as a much of waste of a chance to seal an alliance by marriage as her OTL one was. I suspect she'll still marry Bourbon though - Carlos, conde de Montemolin, perhaps Ferdinand II of Sicily? Either would be more useful than Chartres.

Also, most of Louis Philippe's older children's marriages were into lesser families (Coburg; a distant cadet of the king of Württemberg), new monafchies (Belgium, Brasil) or to Protestants (Leopold of Coburg refused to convert; Helene of Mecklembourg was never obliged to as I understand it). Something I don't see happening here where they would be the nearest thing France has to ACTUAL princes/princesses.

So. Where would these 8 kids marry?
@isabella @Emperor Constantine @Valena @alexmilman @VVD0D95

 

[VVD0D95]

Let's assume that by some miracle the mainline of Bourbons hangs onto the throne in 1830 and Louis Philippe never becomes king.

Where would his children marry? There was mention of Louise d'Artois for the duc de Chartres, but I personally see it as a much of waste of a chance to seal an alliance by marriage as her OTL one was. I suspect she'll still marry Bourbon though - Carlos, conde de Montemolin, perhaps Ferdinand II of Sicily? Either would be more useful than Chartres.

Also, most of Louis Philippe's older children's marriages were into lesser families (Coburg; a distant cadet of the king of Württemberg), new monafchies (Belgium, Brasil) or to Protestants (Leopold of Coburg refused to convert; Helene of Mecklembourg was never obliged to as I understand it). Something I don't see happening here where they would be the nearest thing France has to ACTUAL princes/princesses.

So. Where would these 8 kids marry?
@isabella @Emperor Constantine @Valena @alexmilman @VVD0D95

Louise d'Artois marrying Ferdiand II of Sicily would be fascinating to see. Marie of Altenburg to Chartres as per our discussion before would be quite interesting as well.

 

[Jonathan]

How about these as suggestions:

Ferdinand, Duke of Orléans (3/9/1810-13/7/1842) m. Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia (1819–1876)

Princess Louise d'Orléans (3/4/1812-11/10/1850) m. Henry V of France (1820-1883)

Princess Marie d'Orléans (12/4/1813-6/1/1839) m. 1830, Maximilian II of Bavaria (1811–1864)

Louis, Duke of Nemours (25/10/1814-26/6/1896) m.

Princess Clémentine d'Orléans (6/3/1817-16/2/1907) m. Victor Emmanuel (1820-1878), Prince of Savoy (1820-31), Prince of Piedmont (1831-49), King of Sardinia (1849-1861), King of Italy (1861-78)
(14/3/1820–9/1/1878)

​

François, King of Portugal (14/8/1818 16/6/1900) m. Maria II of Portugal (1819–1853)

Henri, Duke of Aumale (16/1/1822-7/5/1897) m.

Antoine, Duke of Montpensier (31/7/1824-4/2/1890) m. Princess Alexandra Amalie of Bavaria (1826–1875)

 

[WillVictoria]

How about these as suggestions:

Ferdinand, Duke of Orléans (3/9/1810-13/7/1842) m. Grand Duchess Maria Nikolaevna of Russia (1819–1876)

Princess Louise d'Orléans (3/4/1812-11/10/1850) m. Henry V of France (1820-1883)

Princess Marie d'Orléans (12/4/1813-6/1/1839) m. 1830, Maximilian II of Bavaria (1811–1864)

Louis, Duke of Nemours (25/10/1814-26/6/1896) m.

Princess Clémentine d'Orléans (6/3/1817-16/2/1907) m. Victor Emmanuel (1820-1878), Prince of Savoy (1820-31), Prince of Piedmont (1831-49), King of Sardinia (1849-1861), King of Italy (1861-78)
(14/3/1820–9/1/1878)

​

François, King of Portugal (14/8/1818 16/6/1900) m. Maria II of Portugal (1819–1853)

Henri, Duke of Aumale (16/1/1822-7/5/1897) m.

Antoine, Duke of Montpensier (31/7/1824-4/2/1890) m. Princess Alexandra Amalie of Bavaria (1826–1875)

A few questions/comments

1. Maria Nikolaevna was very reluctant to convert/leave Russia, hence her OTL marriage. Unless Ferdinand is moving to St.Petersburg I just can't see it.
2. Why is Henri going with a domestic match here? Wouldn't he be better off on the international marriage market
3. Alexandra apparently had OCD and delusions; while that hasn't always stopped royal marriages I'm not sure she'd end up marrying ITTL.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

A few questions/comments

1. Maria Nikolaevna was very reluctant to convert/leave Russia, hence her OTL marriage. Unless Ferdinand is moving to St.Petersburg I just can't see it.
2. Why is Henri going with a domestic match here? Wouldn't he be better off on the international marriage market
3. Alexandra apparently had OCD and delusions; while that hasn't always stopped royal marriages I'm not sure she'd end up marrying ITTL.

I agree with the Henri to Louise thing. It makes no sense to marry him to a woman nearly a decade older. OTL he was in love with Elizabeth Mikhailovna so perhaps a compromise there.

Maria (and Olga) Nikolaïevnawere both offered for Maximilian II. And neither would've had to convert AIUI.

 

[Jonathan]

A few questions/comments

1. Maria Nikolaevna was very reluctant to convert/leave Russia, hence her OTL marriage. Unless Ferdinand is moving to St.Petersburg I just can't see it.
2. Why is Henri going with a domestic match here? Wouldn't he be better off on the international marriage market
3. Alexandra apparently had OCD and delusions; while that hasn't always stopped royal marriages I'm not sure she'd end up marrying ITTL.

1. Dam it didn’t realise she wouldn’t leave Russia.
2. With foreign marriages causing stir amongst the public, a small internal wedding could remedy this.
3. I thought she was unmarried similar to George III sisters

 

[WillVictoria]

I agree with the Henri to Louise thing. It makes no sense to marry him to a woman nearly a decade older. OTL he was in love with Elizabeth Mikhailovna so perhaps a compromise there.

Maria (and Olga) Nikolaïevnawere both offered for Maximilian II. And neither would've had to convert AIUI.

Offered or not, Maria was very reluctant to leave Russia and her father probably wouldn't have forced her. The only way I see MN leaving Russia is going to Greece, in a do it for Orthodoxy argument. Otherwise, ala Leuchtenberg, her husband will likely have to come to Russia, and if no one will she becomes an old maid.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

2. With foreign marriages causing stir amongst the public, a small internal wedding could remedy this.

Except it would just underline the fact that France is isolated. By wasting someone they can use to build a foreign alliance on marriage to a girl a decade older than him. France needs alliances post-Restauration. Henri V marrying internally will simply point out to the rest of Europe how weak France's king is. That the only person willing to give him a wife is his cousin.

Offered or not, Maria was very reluctant to leave Russia and her father probably wouldn't have forced her. The only way I see MN leaving Russia is going to Greece, in a do it for Orthodoxy argument. Otherwise, ala Leuchtenberg, her husband will likely have to come to Russia, and if no one will she becomes an old maid.

Fair enough. Which is why I feel if a Russian match is happening, it'll be to Elizabeth Mikhailovna rather than Maria Nikolaievna.

 

[isabella]

Let's assume that by some miracle the mainline of Bourbons hangs onto the throne in 1830 and Louis Philippe never becomes king.

Where would his children marry? There was mention of Louise d'Artois for the duc de Chartres, but I personally see it as a much of waste of a chance to seal an alliance by marriage as her OTL one was. I suspect she'll still marry Bourbon though - Carlos, conde de Montemolin, perhaps Ferdinand II of Sicily? Either would be more useful than Chartres.

Also, most of Louis Philippe's older children's marriages were into lesser families (Coburg; a distant cadet of the king of Württemberg), new monafchies (Belgium, Brasil) or to Protestants (Leopold of Coburg refused to convert; Helene of Mecklembourg was never obliged to as I understand it). Something I don't see happening here where they would be the nearest thing France has to ACTUAL princes/princesses.

So. Where would these 8 kids marry?
@isabella @Emperor Constantine @Valena @alexmilman @VVD0D95

I can not see how the mainline Bourbons can keep the crown, unless Louis Philippe listened to his wife instead of his sister Adelaide (maybe the latter was out of Paris for some reason during the July Revolution?) and so he became Regent for young Henry V.
In this scenario Henry V would marry without any doubt Clementine of Orleans who is the daughter of Orleans closest to his age (the age difference with Louise and Marie, respectively 8 and 7 years older than him, is too big for work when exist a better alternative) and that match will replace the planned one between Louise and Chartres (unless Chartres match to Louise of Artois will go on for keeping Louise in France as often French princesses do not like leaving France)...

If Leopold still became King of Belgium here is pretty likely who Louise d’Orleans will marry him a Leopold need a Catholic wife (still is pretty likely who Louise’s brother Ferdinand will be chosen as King of Belgium here as Louis Philippe can not be at the same time King of Belgium and Regent of France).

 

[isabella]

Except it would just underline the fact that France is isolated. By wasting someone they can use to build a foreign alliance on marriage to a girl a decade older than him. France needs alliances post-Restauration. Henri V marrying internally will simply point out to the rest of Europe how weak France's king is. That the only person willing to give him a wife is his cousin.

Louise is the wrong choice without any doubt, but as Charles X will surely lose the crown and the only way under which Henry V can inherit the crown is under a regency of Orleans (or with his mother Caroline as main regent but still heavily dominated by Orleans) a match between Henry and the youngest daughter of the regent (just three years older than him and so in her best childbearing years when Henry will reach the age for the wedding) is almost inevitable for stabilizing Henry’s throne, as that will appease the liberals...

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I can not see how the mainline Bourbons can keep the crown, unless Louis Philippe listened to his wife instead of his sister Adelaide (maybe the latter was out of Paris for some reason during the July Revolution?) and so he became Regent for young Henry V.

@VVD0D95 and I were discussing a scenario where Charles X either dies BEFORE Louis XVIII or at least before whatever popularity Charles had wears off. Leading to Angoulême becoming king peacefully.

 

[isabella]

@VVD0D95 and I were discussing a scenario where Charles X either dies BEFORE Louis XVIII or at least before whatever popularity Charles had wears off. Leading to Angoulême becoming king peacefully.

That was not what I deduced from the starting question (who implied a POD pretty close to 1830)... With Louis XIX on the throne then Louise d’Artois will marry Chartres (as they were planning for many logical reasons) and Henry V a Catholic princess, likely Archduchess Maria Beatrix of Este (who in OTL he would have liked to marry)...
Under this scenario you are giving me now I guess Orleans will most likely become King Louis Philippe I of Belgium.
For Ferdinand II of Two Sicilies I think who a possible second wife is Clementine of Orleans/Belgium (Louise of Artois is Ferdinand’s own niece). Victor Emmanuel of Savoy will marry as OTL Archduchess Adelaide (as that bench of Savoy used marry their heirs to Archduchesses). Louise and Marie are a little more complicated...

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

That was not what I deduced from the starting question (who implied a POD pretty close to 1830)... With Louis XIX on the throne then Louise d’Artois will marry Chartres (as they were planning for many logical reasons) and Henry V a Catholic princess, likely Archduchess Maria Beatrix of Este (who in OTL he would have liked to marry)...
Under this scenario you are giving me now I guess Orleans will most likely become King Louis Philippe I of Belgium.
For Ferdinand II of Two Sicilies I think who a possible second wife is Clementine of Orleans/Belgium (Louise of Artois is Ferdinand’s own niece). Victor Emmanuel of Savoy will marry as OTL Archduchess Adelaide (as that bench of Savoy used marry their heirs to Archduchesses). Louise and Marie are a little more complicated...

What about Louise d'Orléans as a fourth wife for Fernando VII of Spain/second wife for Pedro I of Portugal? I know Angoulême wasn't exactly a fan of Fernando but he's one of the few Catholic kings available

 

[isabella]

What about Louise d'Orléans as a fourth wife for Fernando VII of Spain/second wife for Pedro I of Portugal? I know Angoulême wasn't exactly a fan of Fernando but he's one of the few Catholic kings available

I think Pedro is a little more likely as husband than Ferdinand

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I think Pedro is a little more likely as husband than Ferdinand

Only question is whether France is willing to risk Metternich/Austria's ire. ISTR that Metternich basically bad-mouthed Pedro to the rest of Europe's courts so as to ensure that Pedro wouldn't get a second wife to threaten the half-Austrian offspring of his first marriage. Of course, Pedro's behaviour didn't help quell the rumours but still. I suppose depending how stuff goes down in Losbon, D. Miguel might also be considered, no?
@nandalf @Lusitania @Gonzaga

 

[isabella]

Only question is whether France is willing to risk Metternich/Austria's ire. ISTR that Metternich basically bad-mouthed Pedro to the rest of Europe's courts so as to ensure that Pedro wouldn't get a second wife to threaten the half-Austrian offspring of his first marriage. Of course, Pedro's behaviour didn't help quell the rumours but still. I suppose depending how stuff goes down in Losbon, D. Miguel might also be considered, no?
@nandalf @Lusitania @Gonzaga

Then delay the engagement of some months and have Pedro marrying princess Louise of Belgium as second wife without any need of consent from the King of France...

 

[Emperor Constantine]

So first off, what exactly is the POD here? Charles X keeps his throne and the July Revolution fails? The Duc d'Orléans becomes Regent for Henri V (similar to what I did in Miracle King?) or Artois dying before his brother? Without knowing the exact POD its hard to predict marriages.

 

[isabella]

So first off, what exactly is the POD here? Charles X keeps his throne and the July Revolution fails? The Duc d'Orléans becomes Regent for Henri V (similar to what I did in Miracle King?) or Artois dying before his brother? Without knowing the exact POD its hard to predict marriages.

Exactly. First option is almost ASB, second and third will give us very different scenarios. I tried to suggest matches fir both situations (in which I see either Orleans or his heir as King of Belgium)

 

[Emperor Constantine]

Exactly. First option is almost ASB, second and third will give us very different scenarios. I tried to suggest matches fir both situations (in which I see either Orleans or his heir as King of Belgium)

As one of the only people on this site that's done extensive research on the July Revolution, I can say that option one is NOT nearing ASB territory. If Charles X had taken preparations beforehand (ie disarming but not disbanding the National Guard, instead of the opposite; deploying the Army and the Royal Guard across Paris and the Île-de-France instead of believing that most of the country would support his Ordinances), then I think he could have pulled of his plans. It wouldn't be a happy situation, but it could have limped along until Charles X's death and Louis XIX's accession. Angoulême took more after Louis XVIII than his father, so he'd likely reverse his father's more controversial decisions.

 

[isabella]

As one of the only people on this site that's done extensive research on the July Revolution, I can say that option one is NOT nearing ASB territory. If Charles X had taken preparations beforehand (ie disarming but not disbanding the National Guard, instead of the opposite; deploying the Army and the Royal Guard across Paris and the Île-de-France instead of believing that most of the country would support his Ordinances), then I think he could have pulled of his plans. It wouldn't be a happy situation, but it could have limped along until Charles X's death and Louis XIX's accession. Angoulême took more after Louis XVIII than his father, so he'd likely reverse his father's more controversial decisions.

Still we are talking about Charles and chances who he do the right things are pretty low (Louis XVI also had more than one change to stop or prevent the French Revolution but I do not see him as able to take that decisions).