The Footprint of Mussolini - TL

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I don't think the USSR at the time have nukes yet. Nor using a bomb with a Republican sitting President if would mean risk of nuclear retaliation.



I think this is more what may happen. Well at least the Soviets would have their Afghanistan early... The USSR had yet to rebuild. Is already siphoning supplies to prop Serbia and it won't be easy at all if Hungary and Romania would start to tighten controls. They were purging people left and right and persecuting Jews. The only advantage is they don't have to spread troops in half of Europe.

At the same time, I forgot to say I think Churchill is doing wrong to keep the Raj within the Empire. I can see after Iran won't like to see India under threat, but dominion status won't suffice at this point.
Dominion status IS independence for all practical purposes, frankly getting upset about this when India has the same status as the White Dominions seems odd to me, long term I would think the Indians would be rather more worried about North China, Russia and the Indian communities in South Africa, all of which being on good terms with the UK could help with.
 
I am surprised we didn't get a Wallace quote reacting to Patton entering the race. Wallace probably figured he had ended Patton's relevance already. Patton certainly seemed to think that.

Have to feel sorry for Wallace though. For all his flaws he's a man who truly wants a better life for his people, and a more peaceful and free world. But his timing is the worst ad he placed his trust in the worst peopel possible. As it stands I could see the man getting executed; or perhaps killing himself if he dos realize how Stalin played him.

The war in Poland will be a blow to Wallace. Possibly shattering his rosy view of Soviet liberators. And if he still sticks to his guns, well I suppose he can't go much lower in the esteem of most.

The American Left will need quite a batch of leaders to bounce back from the well intended disaster of President Wallace.

And on another topic, Churchill needs to give up on India. Its far too late to hold that, they need to try and ensure India is either pro ETO or more likely neutral. I wonder how Goa and the other Portuguese holdings will progress with the RA in play?
Giving India Dominion status IS NOT trying to hang on to India, it is Independence in every practical respect.
 
Ehm...nope, no, nada, only in the mind of the big supporter of the Austrian school or the Republican party; the recession of the late 30's was much due to a return to the previous economic politics and not a consequences of FDR policy...as Hoover had done all what possible under the republican (and general mainstream) economic ideology to solve the situation with the same result of star a fire in the middle of the North Pole with just a zipper.
The rest of the world had managed to get out earlier because:
- had cut itself from the world economy (URSS)
- had followed disatrous economic politics on the long run but that gave good result in the short (Nazi Germany)
- had a less 'lassaier fait' attitude than the general american economist/politician and so had more intervention in the economic sector and started similar practice(UK)
- had used the occasion to enlarge the share of the goverment control in the economy for political reason...but that in practice had the same effect/policy of the new deal (Italy)
Without the new deal the effect of the depression will have last longer, caused much more damage at the social and political soul of the USA; we had followed the Austrian school here in Europe as solution for the Great Recession and yes we had solved as the situation returned normal...after 10 years, meaning that frankly it can't be said that's due thanks to the politcs or the normal economic cycle
You don't need a massive central government to effectively fight segregation. Just one that is dedicated to ending de jure discrimination and then enforcing anti-discrimination laws thereafter. Ike, in OTL for example, was not a "big government" type guy. He was, however, a big "law and order" guy so his sending the 101st into Little Rock to enforce the law was perfectly appropriate for him.

That there wouldn't be an entire Federal level bureaucracy doing the redistributive justice thing means a lot less waste and a lot less resulting dependency on the state to solve problems. That can only be a good thing.
For the rich yes not so much for anyone else
 

Dolan

Banned
Most likely themselves to become a republic soon enough though.
with all the clusterfuck involving Communists and Islam, with the need to unite the nation instead of being split up?

If this India ITTL wanted to really kick Britain out, they will offer the crown to one of the Native Rajahs to avoid the potentially violent split of Muslim population.
 
People are getting tired of the Tories but are worried Labour are weak on defence. Gaitskell has taken over the Labour Party after Bevan burned bridges with everyone in the party, which went through a round of soul searching after losing in 1945. Mosley is divisive but eking out a core vote. He’s certainly more popular than the Communists. A big fight is on over India, with Labour lambasting Churchill for trying to hold onto it despite the population wanting out; they are a lot less friendly to Italy as well.
I am not understanding any of your comments on India, After the statute of Westminster in 1931 Dominions were effectively independent, Dominion status has been granted, what is all this cock about hanging onto India?
 
The Chinese War breaking out will be a factor here. The need to stop China falling may finally jog Churchill into letting India go; and for other Tories provide an honorable reason to cut the last pretense of Raj off.
This simply consists of the Indians having the Monarch as ceremonial Head of State, that's it nothing more, and in any case the decision on this could be made by the Indian Government at any time without reference to London There is no "letting India go" or "hanging on to it" involved.
 
On the topic of Fascism "working" ITTL.
All the military might, glowing glory of victory, international rise from strength to strength ultimately does relatively little to address the underlying problems of the Fascist system.
It actually makes things worse on the longer term by forcing Italy to pour a lot of resources into the military, colonial policing into far away lands which will produce little revenue in return (and would need considerable investment to increase that, which Italy would have trouble to scrape together), and the propping up of subordinate allies such as Greece or Croatia (as opposed to domestic investment into productive stuff). This will cause some issues similar to what the late Soviet Union experienced IOTL, with an oversized military spending being a dead weight on the economy.
IOTL, the Fascist regime was insanely corrupt. While it wanted to project an image of ruthless efficiency, historically it was ruthlessly inefficient. This is different ITTL since the system is perceived as working, but corruption would still be rampant.
While the world at large is likely to be poorer overall, so Italians will not see the bounty of consumer goods elsewhere comparing as unfavourably to their situation as Soviet citizens did IOTL, at some time the Empire will be show to be something Italy can hardly afford, and cannot renounce either.
At some point, the cracks will start to show, although it may take time for that.

All political systems require three things to survive: success on the battlefield, putting bread on the table, and the leaders not being depraved shits. If you can't do at least two out of three, your political system will come trashing down.

Mussolini TTL has lucked out by being both on the right of history and by being a Cold War ally, and that fact that his brand of oppression isn't so lunatic as to alienate EVERYBODY.

Like you said, fascism is a system with severe cracks underneath its armor. But right now, those cracks have been papered over.

If circumstances change, then the flaws of the fascist system may gradually be exposed.
 
All political systems require three things to survive: success on the battlefield, putting bread on the table, and the leaders not being depraved shits. If you can't do at least two out of three, your political system will come trashing down.

Mussolini TTL has lucked out by being both on the right of history and by being a Cold War ally, and that fact that his brand of oppression isn't so lunatic as to alienate EVERYBODY.

Like you said, fascism is a system with severe cracks underneath its armor. But right now, those cracks have been papered over.

If circumstances change, then the flaws of the fascist system may gradually be exposed.
They check the depraved shits box actually.
But there's plenty of worse shits around.
 
They check the depraved shits box actually.
But there's plenty of worse shits around.

That's the frustrating thing about the Nazis: they set the bar so far low, that the Stalinists, despite also being guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide, could come across as "OK".

TTL, Mussolini comes across as a saint because his obsession with identity isn't so deranged, he'll murder an entire ethnic group like insects, nor invade an entire country just to do it. He has also become a saint compared to the awfulness of the TTL Soviet Union and the unhinged madness of the UAR.
 
That's the frustrating thing about the Nazis: they set the bar so far low, that the Stalinists, despite also being guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide, could come across as "OK".

TTL, Mussolini comes across as a saint because his obsession with identity isn't so deranged, he'll murder an entire ethnic group like insects, nor invade an entire country just to do it. He has also become a saint compared to the awfulness of the TTL Soviet Union and the unhinged madness of the UAR.
Heck at this point, I wonder if any place in the Italian empire even rates as bad as turn of the Century Belgian Congo...
 
Have just read through this very interesting timeline.
It is very well written, seems sadly realistic, and has had me saying HOLY SHIT every other chapter or so. Can't wait to see where things go next :)
 
Heck at this point, I wonder if any place in the Italian empire even rates as bad as turn of the Century Belgian Congo...
Uhhh no, the Belgian Congo was a monstrosity that even other colonial powers knew it had to stop. Ethiopia is the harshest place in Italy's Empire, but not close to the Belgian Congo.
 
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The reason I posted this was because the person I quoted was asking for help with a website error. He turned out to be a troll/spammer. Sorry for the inconvenience.
 
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