Map Thread XIX

[evergreen]

I like the Dawa Lenin bit

lack of a typical western surname tradition + revolutionary fervour = a bunch of lenins and marxes and such running around

 

[Prince di Corsica]

Cross-posting from the MoTF, just to see what people think about this, and see if anyone spots any mistakes or has any issues with the names. I tried by best to find fitting names and to avoid mistakes in the text, but alas, I'm prone to mistakes and prone to not thinking of the best names for my alt-nations. Either way, I liked to play with the cultural details of this map, such as the expanded Basques (an idea that came from a project I'm working on) or the creation of a full Punic identity by way of Romantic literature. The Norman tribes in the Portuguese shore were also an interesting touch, I think. And overall, the aesthethics turned out nicely. This map was a pain. It seemed completely unappealing until the very last touches were done and the whole thing just fell together. Perhaps it could have become even better, but I have been working on this through too many crashes not to post it. Hope you like it!

"I've heard of Balkanising Spain, but this is ridiculous!"

So, the idea I decided to run with was taking the fall of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans and transfer it to a surviving Al-Andaluz in the Iberian Peninsula. I played around with the transfers, with there being no exact matchs, but very similar events, as otherwise it would take the fun out of the very original patch of cultures that is the Iberian Peninsula. In any case, I imagine that, to the trained eye, similarities will abound.

To give some insight into the world, I'll put some things about the diplomacy of each of the nations of the Peninsula:

Asturias: the most ancient Christian state in the Peninsula, by around 1000 years. Rather culturally distinct from the rest of their fellow nations, due to the severe lack, to the point of aversion, of Islamic influences. Separated by the Duero Desert, the vastly empty valleys of the Duero River, that suffered a campaign of genocide by ancient Asturian kings, the Asturians are a rather distinct folk, very Visigothic in character still. They are also a rather poor country, that had hoped to, in the demise of the Andaluz Empire, expand their lands beyond their mountain peaks. They managed to snatch the mouth of the Duero back in 1808, but their attempts at expanding during the Iberic Revolts failed badly, with the native peoples preferring Andaluzian rule to that of the Asturians and finally arising as their own Hispanian nation. Needless to say, the bitterness about this is still felt between Asturians and Hispanians. They also dislike the Basques, having put forward campaigns of extermination of the other mountain people of Hispania

Kunnimbriga & Walisiphus: the two Zamali sisters, based on the Atlantic hills, these two states came into being when the local Zamali (Northmen) population rose, their tribal chiefs who had submitted to the Caliph back in the late 1100s rising again when sensing the weakness of their overlords. Supported and sponsored by the northern European nations, in particular the English and the Norwegians, the local Zamali minorities replaced the Arabic minority in power, changing very little in the lives of their smallfolk, who begin to fall in love with pan-Hispanian feelings

Vasconia: the land of the Basques. In their defence, the Basques are much more numerous here, as the Aragonese language nevery truly arose, with the Upper Ebro Valley remaining steadfast Basque and, curiously enough, also becoming fiercely Islamic, in a very successful campaign by local tribal leaders who converted during the early stages of the invasion, such as the Banu Qasi. However, it is true that most of the patch of land acquired during the Third Iberic Revolt was perhaps too much to chew, as its people are mostly Romance speakers, now suffering a great campaign of 'education' on proper manners. Surrounded by Christian states, their relationships with them are... far from ideal, but they do have a healthy trading relation with the English and the Norwegian, as Basque ships are renowned in their strength. In fact, it was Basque ships that discovered the western continents

Gothia: a strange entity, legally speaking, within the Gallic Empire, the province had long been desired by the Empire, and after three long wars with little result, the Imperial forces were finally able to take the country for themselves, creating a province with very special status in the Imperial Assembly, being directly supervised by the Imperial admnistration, rather than have a feudal trapping underneath it. Very devoid of aristocracy (most having fled during the war), today it is one of the most secular regions in the Empire, and home to many disturbances. The Imperial government attempts to focus on the Gothic heritage of the region, mostly in opposition to the Hispanian identity that many of its inhabitants are beginning to feel like, as pan-Hispanian feelings surge. Things ought to be better once the Prince Imperial and his wife go visit Tarraco next summer, though

Cartaginensia: what mostly started as a pet project of the Apolloniac literary circles and, somehow, became a powerful state of its own. As the literary style in Gallia, Lombardy and Rome began glorifying the classical era, the struggles of the modern Carthaginians, under the yoke of Andalusian rule, became somewhat glorified themselves and when a small-scale revolt in the region, as periodically occured, began, an unexpected number of foreign support, from money to volunteers, came pouring in, as young well-read men came to fight a new Punic war. Understanding that the lifestyle sold, the Carthaginians themselves adopted their newfound Punic identity, managing to expel the Andalusians from their lands and establishing their own nation. Perhaps not yet fully formed, the half-hearted Punic idealism and their reliance on Apolloniac support, no matter how ridiculous that was, had them choose the ancient city of Cartago, now little more than a village, to serve as their capital city. The city would grow the following century to become one of Europe's finest cities. A constant thorn on the side for the Andalusians, they would constantly ally with their enemies for the sake of expanding, stretching themselves over the coast and becoming a maritime power. Their monarchy is descended from a Byzantine younger prince who was elected to serve as King, and whose lineage fit rather well with the whole Apolloniac theme the country has going. Many of its citizens already identify as 'Punic', whatever that would mean, but the number of pro-Hispanian folk isn't significant either. If that lends itself to a stable future, however, remains to be seen, as tensions agitate and some begin suggesting the Hispanians may find greener pastures in their own country, just across the border

Betica: A country that is still struggling to find its place in the world. Much closer culturally to the Caliphate, they were still very Christian in religion, making them an odd kid in the world. With a very strong Andalusian identity, a distinct Romance language as close to Hispanian as it is to say, Lombard, and a Christian faith, the country was formed more out of Gallic pressures than any true indepedence movement in the Iberic Revolts; its founding fathers decided to choose the name Betica for their country to appeal to a more distant history that could unify their nation and help them find an identity in the world. A rather wealthy country, with large cities (even if very depopulated by the forced removals after independence), Betica is indeed finding its own place and becoming a strong power on its own, forming a powerful army, fed from its fruitful valleys and trained by their German allies, from whom their royal family comes, a small noble family named von Habsburg who was elected king due to the fact they were indeed powerless in foreign matters in Europe. Currently, their main dispute is with Hispania, over the region of Almansha, which both nations claim for their own. The two countries have been at war before over the matter and few believe it is settled

Gharb: A nation formed out of a social pact between its Islamic and Christian communities during the Iberic Revolt. Upon realising that each group would be subjected by slaughter if faced with an invasion, be it Christian or by the Andaluzian forces, the two communities, with a long history of good relations and cooperation, decided to build an alliance of mutual protection, declaring themselves free from subjugation from either faction, and defending their lands side-by-side. Achieving their independence, the question of form of government was put on the table, with the involved parties eventually settling for a surprisingly stable plural republican system, with a strong constitution protecting freedom of conscience. The rise of supremacist Christian and Islamic forces, sponsored by Hispania and Berbery respectively, have somewhat weakened that perfect system. Hope remains, however. Lighter fact: their language is so distinct that its name is used in neighbouring nations as a synonym for 'speaking gibberish'

Hispania: The obvious elephant in the room. The question would be: how come a country so big and evidently powerful in the region has managed to have no coast whatsoever? Well... the poor bastards are asking that themselves. But it turns out when you found your own identity on militantly aspiring to engulf all your neighbours (including close allies and provinces of larger foreign countries), they'll usually align against your interests. They are still pretty mad about not actually achieving to go all the way to the sea in 1908, but, if you ask most of the government or army officials, they'll tell you the time for reckoning will come soon. Their identity was built during the First Iberic Revolt, as being that of the Christian peoples of the Peninsula, descendants of the Roman province, rising after centuries of Islamic yoke, but weary of the Asturian kings as well, seeing them as too foreign, not having suffered the occupation of centuries. This has made them militantly opposed to both the Andalusian and the Islamic nations in the Peninsula, and fiercely pan-Hispanian, sponsoring movements for it in their neighbours. And by movements, it means everything from literary circles to guerilla groups. Their intentions are clear - they want to dominate a Christian realm from the Asturian mountains to the Sierra Nevada, from Lissabona to Tarraco. Whether they will accomplish it, it's another matter, but the country is known as a brewing ground for Hispanian terrorists all over the Peninsula. Among the enemies of Hispania, one would count - Asturias, whose border they don't think is well-drawn and whose antics they detest; the Zamali sisters, who occupy their rightful coast and oppress their brethren; the Gallic Empire, who oppress their Gothic subjects; Cartaginensia, a puppet of the Romans who try to discredit Hispanian nationhood for their own fantastical myths; Betica, who are crypto-Berbers trying to shift the Hispanian language in the region; Gharb, whose Christians must be controlled by the Muslims, otherwise why would they reject having been liberated by them back in '78? And, of course, the Republic of Berbery, and all it stands for. Oh, and of course, the foreign powers who are just trying to carve pieces of Hispania for themselves and oppressing their people. Their list of friends is shorter

Berbery: After the collapse of the Empire, both in its rich northern lands and (outside the map) in the large tracts of Saharan land going all the way to the Niger Valley, the Caliphate was removed from power by the Beber National Movement, a secular and nationalist movement who waged a 'war of independence' that saw the Caliph Muhammad XX removed from his position and a republic installed, doing away with the ties with both the Iberian provinces and the southern African regions. The new regime, fiercely secular, is conducting a campaign against the old Islamic customs, such as the wearing of hijab, with mixed results, although certainly improving women's rights. They are also fiercely nationalistic; one wouldn't want to be a Kabyle in Berbery, or at least a Kabyle that wouldn't mind bowing his head to the Berber norm and accept the adjective 'mountain Berber' to be used in their census records. The Republic is also making efforts to 'restore' the Berber language: that is, to take away every Arab influence from it. The ancient city of Karnatha, with its beautiful palace atop of an hill, remains the capital of the State, although the Republicans are planning of shifting it to Fez, for the sake of State security and being farther away from all the dangerous Hispanian influences. Speaking of which, the State remains concerned with the number of cultures within its borders, and has opened talks with its neighbours on how to take care of this problem bothering both sides




So, here we have an Al-Andaluz that, having survived for far longer than its days in our world, now has to face what is coming for it. I leave the fate of Iberia as an exercise to the reader, but with a small finishing note: if you think this has an happy ending, you haven't been paying attention

 

[HorizonFalling]

The World of Horizon Falling, 2112
​

Current map of Earth for my TL, Horizon Falling. Questions and recommendations are very much welcome, as this is my first public map post here.
I plan to eventually post the full timeline on this site, but it's still very much under construction.

 

[AstroRangerBeans]

View attachment 505958​

The World of Horizon Falling, 2112
​

Current map of Earth for my TL, Horizon Falling. Questions and recommendations are very much welcome, as this is my first public map post here.
I plan to eventually post the full timeline on this site, but it's still very much under construction.

Why Papal States independent or I mean the Vatican is regaining control of Italian capital Rome?

What’s going on with the human colonies or I mean extrahuman colonies out from Earth?

How did the American territorial expansion changed?

What happened to French Overseas dependencies?

 

[ETGalaxy]

View attachment 505958​

The World of Horizon Falling, 2112
​

Current map of Earth for my TL, Horizon Falling. Questions and recommendations are very much welcome, as this is my first public map post here.
I plan to eventually post the full timeline on this site, but it's still very much under construction.

Neat map and an interesting setting! I like it! I’m wondering what you’re going for though. At first glance, I thought this was a purely FH TL, or at least a TL with a recent POD that goes well into the future, but then I noticed the internal borders of what I’m assuming is the United States. They look like they’d require a much earlier POD, so is this an FH TL or a normal TL with a POD in the past, and if so when?

 

[HorizonFalling]

Why Papal States independent or I mean the Vatican is regaining control of Italian capital Rome?
What’s going on with the human colonies or I mean extrahuman colonies out from Earth?
How did the American territorial expansion changed?
What happened to French Overseas dependencies?

-What looks like the Papal States is actually an independent state (the Republic of Lazio) that was freed after Italy fell into a civil war between Padania and Mezzogiorno. It was a comparatively violent conflict, but both sides mutually agreed to avoid what remained of the central Italian government in Rome because they were supported by the Pope. Neither side wanted to break the agreement but they also wouldn't accept the other side having it. Nothing is as permanent as a temporary solution.

-Mixed. Cities on the lunar surface are visible from Earth now, but they don't exactly cover the surface. Terraforming on Mars is moving faster than expected thanks to new technologies and massive public interest in the project. Though Luna, Mars, and the Asteroid Belt were dominated by China, the United States, and Japan respectively, the US outlasted the other two and now is building up a monopoly on space. Everything besides those three is treated like Antarctica is today: cold and desolate, with the occasional research "colony."

-Are you referring to its internal borders?

-As Europe turned in on itself, France's more populous territories voted for independence while the more disparate were bought up by foreign powers. The United States integrated most of the Pacific and Caribbean ones in a bid to secure dominance over those areas - which it successfully did.

 

[HorizonFalling]

Neat map and an interesting setting! I like it! I’m wondering what you’re going for though. At first glance, I thought this was a purely FH TL, or at least a TL with a recent POD that goes well into the future, but then I noticed the internal borders of what I’m assuming is the United States. They look like they’d require a much earlier POD, so is this an FH TL or a normal TL with a POD in the past, and if so when?

Actually, the internal borders were created in 'our future' through various means.
-The new Southwestern borders were created during the Hispanic/Latinx social movements in the 2050s.
-The Montana/Idaho border, West Virginia/Pennsylvania border, and Texas/Oklahoma borders were changed during a movement to just clean up the worse-looking state borders.
-The Alabama borders were set by the Federal government after the American Republican Movement stormed its state capitol in 2028. (In which Alabama controversially did not actually vote because it couldn't select Electors)
-Tennesee's new borders were created at about the same time as Alabama's. Briefly a territory of the federal government, the new state of Nickajack was admitted as a concession to the local community.
-Chicago and Illinois broke apart because urban Chicago refused to subsidize rural Illinois and rural Illinois refused to be overruled by urban Chicago. Fistfights broke out in Springfield.
-New York and Empire broke up for much the same reason as Chicago and Illinois, but it was a much more peaceful movement.

Right now this is a FH map, but that's only because I'm unsure how exactly I want to set up the beginning of the timeline.

 

[AstroRangerBeans]

-Are you referring to its internal borders?

Yes but changes in territory including admission to new U.S. state.

What happened to the unfortunate cities that unable to deal with long problems?

How did Russian Federation imploded into existing countries as of 2112?

Are there any existing countries as of now has suffered or survived from it’s inevitable horrifying fate?

 

[HorizonFalling]

Yes but changes in territory including admission to new U.S. state.

What happened to the unfortunate cities that unable to deal with long problems?

How did Russian Federation imploded into existing countries as of 2112?

Are there any existing countries as of now has suffered or survived from it’s inevitable horrifying fate?

-Canada became progressively more dependent on the United States, especially after the US wrestled its way into the Arctic Ocean in an effort to dominate trade there. It annexed the Caribbean nations one by one as they fell to hurricanes and floods cause by climate change.

-Varies by country. Richer nations like the United States and Japan were able to save their cities (Baltimore and Tokyo for example) by using sea walls. But cities in poorer countries such as Dakha or Jakarta were gradually overrun by the water and almost entirely destroyed.

-What you see now happened over a long period of time, but most of it occurred during the Russian Civil War that gradually built up during the late 2020s. After Vladimir Putin "retired" from public politics, his successors promptly ran the country into the ground. A nationalist type takes power after a very suspicious election cycle. Extremely violent protests break out, and some Republics considered independence. But what really did it in for Russia is the scariest part of my timeline- Nuclear Terrorism. A dirty bomb was detonated Northeast of Moscow, not close enough to annihilate the city but not far enough away to save it from radiation. The government completely fell apart after that.

-Well, Switzerland lives on. It's really the only country that has survived completely intact despite social movements and climate change.

 

[Hypersauce]

Turkey in its Civil War height:

Red: Old Government
Dark Blue: New Government
Light Blue: Leftist Goverments
Yellow: Kurdish Seperatists
Dark Gray: Some Terrorist organisation. Not sure what to call it.

After Treaty of Tblisi:

 

[Library of Alexandria]

View attachment 506007

Right, I made this in like April of 2018, which was when I first got a windows PC and could therefore begin doing mapping. I consider this my first map, and so let it be known I hold the title for the worst first map in existence. That blue isn't France, or the Angevins, by the way.

Internet horror is the cool thing at the moment, right?

 

[Gokbay]

Internet horror is the cool thing at the moment, right?

OH GOD WHY?

Also what is that blue for?

 

[InfernoMole]

Questions and recommendations are very much welcome, as this is my first public map post here.

This map smacks of George Friedman a little too much for my tastes, but otherwise it's fine. I do have a few questions

• Okay, so what's the political situation like in the US? Surely there would be some separatism in Canada and the Caribbean?
• How did Poland grow so large? How did they annex Western Ukraine?
• Do the post-Russian states have names? I'm particularly interested in the big orange state north of the Caspian and Greater Tyumen.
• Why did Kazakhstan collapse?
• So what are the most powerful states in Africa in your TL?
• Where did the Muscovites resettle? What's the capital of Rump Russia?
• Was South Africa, at any point before its collapse, governed by the Economic Freedom Fighters?
• Wouldn't the European Union want to keep French Guiana for the spaceport?

 

[Library of Alexandria]

OH GOD WHY?

Also what is that blue for?

Scotland, iirc.



personally I’ve chosen to retroactively make it the Kingdom of Fife so at least there’s gloryhammer memes to be made

 

[InfernoMole]

Actually, the internal borders were created in 'our future' through various means.
-The new Southwestern borders were created during the Hispanic/Latinx social movements in the 2050s.
-The Montana/Idaho border, West Virginia/Pennsylvania border, and Texas/Oklahoma borders were changed during a movement to just clean up the worse-looking state borders.
-The Alabama borders were set by the Federal government after the American Republican Movement stormed its state capitol in 2028. (In which Alabama controversially did not actually vote because it couldn't select Electors)
-Tennesee's new borders were created at about the same time as Alabama's. Briefly a territory of the federal government, the new state of Nickajack was admitted as a concession to the local community.
-Chicago and Illinois broke apart because urban Chicago refused to subsidize rural Illinois and rural Illinois refused to be overruled by urban Chicago. Fistfights broke out in Springfield.
-New York and Empire broke up for much the same reason as Chicago and Illinois, but it was a much more peaceful movement.

Not to be nitpicking, but in my opinion the state borders actually look worse, particularly Idaho/Montana (what's with some of the latter's most populous counties being taken by Idaho) and the "Hispanic" states. That tiny state at the edge of southern Florida is probably very underpopulated, too. That said, everything else is fine, and I actually do like the map.

How long before the remnants of Louisiana become a U.S. territory?

 

[rexnerdorum]

The World of Horizon Falling, 2112
​

Current map of Earth for my TL, Horizon Falling. Questions and recommendations are very much welcome, as this is my first public map post here.
I plan to eventually post the full timeline on this site, but it's still very much under construction.

-Mixed. Cities on the lunar surface are visible from Earth now, but they don't exactly cover the surface. Terraforming on Mars is moving faster than expected thanks to new technologies and massive public interest in the project. Though Luna, Mars, and the Asteroid Belt were dominated by China, the United States, and Japan respectively, the US outlasted the other two and now is building up a monopoly on space. Everything besides those three is treated like Antarctica is today: cold and desolate, with the occasional research "colony."

Three inter-related questions:

1) How can anyone who can't figure out how to build a sea wall manage to build so many colonies on the moon that they become visible from Earth?

B) How can the USA build so many moon colonies when Cape Canaveral is under water?

3) Why is the sea level so much higher than scientists predict? It looks like more than 7m, possibly the 20m basemap. That would be 20-40 times the prediction from the IPCC by 2100.

 

[VigilantSycamore]

The Lenape Empire at its greatest extent, c. 1896

The Lenape Empire consists of: the Lenape Union; the Provinces and Territories of the Lenape Empire; and the Lenape Protectorates of Lunda, Malaysia, and Greater Cypria. The Lenape's aims are to join their colonies in East and West Africa, to fully control the Mediterranean, to secure their holdings in the Indian Ocean, and to gain a foothold in the Pacific, preferably in Southeast Asia. Their allies are the Cree Confederation, the Mohawk State, and the Seminole Alliance, while their main enemies are the Haudenosaunee, Powhatan, and Nahua Empires.

 

[Bytor]

While I'm not the author, what I can tell you on behalf of @LeinadB93 is you are working from some faulty conclusions on the origin and entire relationship of Texas via-a-vis the British Empire, not to mention land grabs post-Great War.

Are you talking about faulty conclusions about @LeinadB93's ATL? Because what I wrote was an abbreviated description of Texas's situation OTL and asked how the ATL of the posted map differed, indicating that I don't know anything about their ATL, so I'm not sure how you think I could have been making faulty conclusions about it.

 

[Bytor]

As @FleetMac rightly points out, there's a lot of backstory to this map. Texas gained independence as OTL, but under British protection until the 1930s/40s. Santa Fe de Nuevo Mexico was seized in 1841 during the Texan Border Wars and then formalised through the treaty that ended the Mexican War (OTL Mexican-American War). Sonora was annexed following the defeat of Central Powers-aligned Mexico during the First World War. New Mexico became the general term in Texas for the sparsely populated western territories until the 1876 Constitution divided up the country into states. New Mexico Territory was created from the territory west of the Rio Grande, whilst the Trans-Pecos and Llano territories were created from the remants west and north of Comancheria.

Thanks for the pointer. You don't specifically mention it that I could see in the ol dpost you linked to, but I presume that Great Britain gave the early Republic of Texas some kind of financial support to help allay the growing debts from breaking away from Mexico?

 

[HorizonFalling]

This map smacks of George Friedman a little too much for my tastes, but otherwise it's fine. I do have a few questions

• Okay, so what's the political situation like in the US? Surely there would be some separatism in Canada and the Caribbean?
• How did Poland grow so large? How did they annex Western Ukraine?
• Do the post-Russian states have names? I'm particularly interested in the big orange state north of the Caspian and Greater Tyumen.
• Why did Kazakhstan collapse?
• So what are the most powerful states in Africa in your TL?
• Where did the Muscovites resettle? What's the capital of Rump Russia?
• Was South Africa, at any point before its collapse, governed by the Economic Freedom Fighters?
• Wouldn't the European Union want to keep French Guiana for the spaceport?

-I'd be lying if I said he had no influence on it. It's been a while since I read his stuff, but it's still in my mind.

-Canadian separatism very much still exists, but in an OTL neo-Confederate, anti-government sort of way. There aren't any actual proposals for independence but it's still very much a present issue.
-The Caribbean states are really too devastated and depopulated to have any independence movements.

-Yes. The orange state is the Muslim-plurality Caspian Emirate, which is actually a rather religiously tolerant state. The brown one is the Russian Federation, unrelated to the one we know.

-Population growth and bad government fueled separatist movements, and it completely collapsed after the government was "electronically decapitated."

-The most powerful by far is the East African Federation, but it's still only a minor power in global terms.

-Most emigrated west, which caused states like Poland to become even more nationalistic. The government eventually moved back to Moscow, which was cleaned up over the decades. The provisional capital was Ryazan for most of the 2030s and was moved to St. Petersburg as Russia began to rebuild. "Rump Russia" is the Russian Republic.

-Governed with a majority in the Assembly? No, not even close. Helped form a governing coalition? Yes, rather briefly.

-French Guiana gained independence while France was still an independent state, and the European Federation formed decades later as the EU very gradually centralised power. The United Nations (which still very much exists, though more as an alliance of states the US doesn't feel like invading) allows some shared use of spaceports and guarantees corporations the right to use public ones, so the EF can usually go through one of its friendlier allies.